Petition for BP to Discontinue Wholesaling Discussions...
Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votesPetition for BP to Discontinue Wholesaling Discussions...
Most Popular Reply
Residential Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 139 posts · 106 votes
11yI'm not sure why I'm even responding to this insulting post but since you've hit a nerve, I'm going to try. Wholesales and wholesalers are an intricate part for many investors. Considering we move 30-50 properties a month to our investors may show that wholesalers play an important role for many investors. We work to provide quality investments and take over all the hard work and time it takes to acquire properties for our investors that don't have the time, desire or knowledge to accomplish. Sure, there are bad seeds out there in the wholesale world, but there are bad seeds in every aspect of business. I find BP to be an incredible resource for me as an investor and a wholesaler. For you to want to begin a petition to rid posts and forums about a particular side of investing seems selfish and a little "one sided". I can only assume you've had a bad experience, but to burn the industry as a whole really doesn't provide much credibility on your part.
311 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
In our appearance on CardoneZone a while back, my significant other (@Brandon Turner) referred to BP as "FaceBook, only smarter"...lol
Perhaps on a good day, which today is not hahaha
Bill?
"Smarter than FaceBook" is setting the bar mighty low.
No ****, and today I am not sure we are even keeping up...:(
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
In our appearance on CardoneZone a while back, my significant other (@Brandon Turner) referred to BP as "FaceBook, only smarter"...lol
Perhaps on a good day, which today is not hahaha
Bill?
The moment people start posting what they had for breakfast and telling their significant other they "love them" via posts on BP is the same time I'll be removing myself from BP just like I did from Facebook. :)
The difference between BP and Facebook is that on BP we are discussing a particular subject (Real Estate "investing"), on Facebook people only talk about themselves.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Scott Gray:
There are some good and reputable wholesellers and there are some bad and not so reputable wholesellers.
I am certain of it.
How I know of this fact I will just keep as a private trade secret. Don't ask me cause I'm not giving this priceless knowledge away for free. I want to keep my market advantage.
Can I buy your guru course?
- Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 5 votes11y
I agree with everyone else here. It's an integral part of RE investing and shouldn't be culled from the forums.
BUT!! There is nothing more frustrating and anger inducing than seeing a post in 2015 (even 2014, ffs) that is titled, "How do I get started Wholesaling." These people need to be temporarily banned for 48 hours or something to teach them to search before hand or even read the basic materials. These people want spoon feeding.
- Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 24 votes11y
Originally posted by @Richard C.:
Originally posted by @Scott Gray:
There are some good and reputable wholesellers and there are some bad and not so reputable wholesellers.
I am certain of it.
How I know of this fact I will just keep as a private trade secret. Don't ask me cause I'm not giving this priceless knowledge away for free. I want to keep my market advantage.
Can I buy your guru course?
As soon as my patent is approved I will upgrade to Pro status and run a limited offer special. Please wait with bated breath.
- Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Scott Gray:
Originally posted by @Richard C.:
Originally posted by @Scott Gray:
There are some good and reputable wholesellers and there are some bad and not so reputable wholesellers.
I am certain of it.
How I know of this fact I will just keep as a private trade secret. Don't ask me cause I'm not giving this priceless knowledge away for free. I want to keep my market advantage.
Can I buy your guru course?
As soon as my patent is approved I will upgrade to Pro status and run a limited offer special. Please wait with bated breath.
Funny story. On one of the many threads about guru courses, I mentioned the "Richard C. Copper Mastery Course", which I promised would help my students to unlock the fortune in copper pipes and wiring to be found in empty homes all over America.
Some guy PM'd me, wanting to enroll.
- Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2014 · 128 posts · 31 votes11y
I just read all 8 pages. WOW!
Hey Class, My name is Jerald....................................and I'm a Wholesaler!
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I have no problem with that.
Wholesaling is my way in, simple and plain.
I disclose that I am a (get ready) "Investor" that is seeking to buy at discounted prices to find cash buyers that prefer a particular market. I "tie" up the property for around 30 days to find the right buyer if I don't have one already. The sale price is agreed upon between 2 adults as well as the purchase price. Morally, I feel obligated to be transparent, I took on this approach from reading the many forums here on BP. Most of you are very vocal as to what you dislike about Wholesalers and I keep that in mind when I get a property under contract. Thru my lil ole LLC. Small time ya see. Avg Assignment fee is around 3k, but get this................I did assign a condo for 7k! The end buyers were very please with my product (1/1 move in ready condo in great location with SS appliances and amenities) My seller, well lets just say that after he and his wife enjoyed the wine basket they received from me surprised me with a card expressing their gratitude for doing what I said I would do.
So you see, we need wholesale speak here on BP, some of us are listening and taking notes. Most if not all of us didn't come with silver spoons, become accidental landlords, cash out of other businesses to jump in and buy turnkeys, multifamily, and any of the other juicy stuff to kick back on a beach. What many of us do, is budget for a mail campaign, we budget for bandit signs, we spend time returning calls, we do the face to face, the call to call, the taking of pictures, the cold calls to potential buyers, the time to post pics to dropbox, google drive, postlets.com and various other websites to get "Your" attention. Should it be more structured? Yes it should be, but either we play the hand we have or bow out and fortunately for me; I'm not built like that. Just keep relaying the likes and dislikes, maybe include your market so someone on here can get you what you want, which is a deal below FMV.
Much success to everyone on here, I still love this site!
Oh and by the way, my market is Jacksonville FL, ALL of Jacksonville, so shoot me a PM on your criteria (Should you be interested) and lets make some magic!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 4 votes11ySomebody's on their high horse
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
But all joking aside... When I saw the title I figured I knew where this was going. Shout out to the seasoned investors who have tried to educate folks on the other side of the fence.
I have wholesaled crack houses, homes with tectonic plates for foundations, and termite ridden wood piles. My buyers COME BACK to me. My sellers thank me for solving their problems. A solid majority of the people I work with have tried all other avenues (including listing) with no success.
It comes down to a matter of why you are wholesaling. Personally I analyze every deal and leave myself multiple exit strategies. If it's an area I work in heavily I will flip it myself. If it's a great rental I hold it. If I'm busy or don't love the area I wholesale it. If you get deals truly at 65% - ARV you have no problem moving them. I won't put a property under contract that I won't personally close on.
If you have no money, no transportation, and no way of analyzing a deal you shouldn't be signing legally binding contracts. It may work out for you... You may get burned it's that simple. I wrote a pretty lengthy post on wholesaling on my blog as well as operating ethically that I will send links to if people want my opinion.
I am not a wholesaler. I am an investor. I am a transactional engineer. I use ALL the tools at my disposal to close deals.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes11y
People can debate this to 100 pages and beyond yet still have unchanged opinions OR you can get out there and buy and sell more real estate and actually make some money! .............. : )
- 11yRonald PerichPro MemberInvestor · Granite City, IL · Member since 2014 · 658 posts · 301 votes
@James
My point, which you are missing, is that wholesalers provide no extra function in the market than is already provided by realtors. I'm not interested in them being at whatever job they think they have, we already have licensed professionals called realtors.
I'm not a wholesaler, but I will wholesale from time to time based on circumstances. I'd have to say that there a number of realtors who won't even touch the properties many wholesalers take care of. And there are even less agents willing to go after those vacant properties, the properties that have civic fines against them, etc.
The vast majority of agents play in spaces that are safer in getting a sale or will only deal in properties that are "safe". In other words, won't take a lot of energy to market and sell. In my area, I don't know of many agents who drive around looking for overgrown weeds or go to the city courthouse once a month to pull a list of fines. They also don't want to list a $15,000 for 6% commission. They're going to ask for more than that to make it worth their time and energy. So they'll probably end up listing the house at $20K just to cover their own earnings.
So what happens then? Well, these properties go vacant and become blights in a neighborhood.
Agents play a vital role for the vast majority of real estate transactions. But there are always exceptions out there. It's that small exception area where I think wholesalers can have a vital role not just in finding good properties for investors but also with helping keep neighborhoods vibrant.
But I must add that a lot of wholesalers are not investors. And I'm not talking about them having properties they hold or fix-and-resell. No. Many wholesalers don't take the time to even invest in their own education. They read a couple of articles, work hard to find a property, and then have no clue what to do next. They overpay or underestimate how much repairs will be. And they lose the deal. And they have sullied the reputation of other investors in the area.
I really hope this hits home with a lot of the newbies who just attended the latest guru pitch and are excited to invest on hype. I fell for it and had a deal nearly fall apart and I learned a lot from it.
I approach wholesaling differently now and generally don't recommend it to people starting out. I believe, because of the ethics, moral decisions, and amount of work that come into question that wholesaling is more of an experienced investors tool; not a newbie. That being said, some people can make it right away as a newbie and do fine, but I think its a small proportion that do. I'd be more than happy to see this thread linked in the other sticky topics related to wholesaling. Much of what is discussed in this thread is not mentioned by the gurus when they pitch their classes.
I do believe wholesalers can be more creative than Realtors but that is very likely because I'm not as familiar with the world of a Realtor. Perhaps they are just as effective as wholesalers. Eitherway, I caution against wholesaling for those just starting out with no money, no experience, and lots of enthusiasm.
- Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 132 votes11y
I have been following this thread......slightly.
The BP forums are where I thought I could finally get away from what this thread really is. This thread was started quite simply as trolling.
I hope that the BP forums do not become just like the rest of the internet.
I came here to learn. Not to air petty grievances or to listen to anonymous vitriol which is found so often on the net.
- Investor · Irvine, CA · Member since 2015 · 124 posts · 35 votes11y
Hi All,
Wow what a thought provoking thread. Should wholesaling be banned as a topic ! Seems to have evolved into a value, ethics, morality question.
Is it ethical for an agent to list a prop as "A Handyman Special" when the work needed calls for a structural engineer, or minimally, that of licensed electricians, plumbers, or even union workers. Or how about "Needs TLC" ? When it really needs a jackhammer, power nailers, and generators. Not to mention the permits and inspections. Handyman special, TLC, really Mr Ethical Agent. How about more correct listing derails ?
Agents never try to list a prop for a price too high for the market do they? Causing the seller to set through repeated price reductions ! Where's the morality in that ?
I could go on and on concerning every facet and nitch of the industry. The still predatory aspects of lending. Don't get me going on contractors. Sweetheart Apraiasers. The list is almost endless.
Who provides what value for the RE industry. Everyone doing it with integrity, transparency, and concern for others.
BP needs to be open to discussion of all aspects of the RE industry.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
how the thread started not withstanding... if you come to BP to learn well that's OK.. but you have to remember the source... you have no way to verify the bonafides of most of the contributors. and frankly a lot of what is talked about is simply opinion by those with other agendas IE to sell you something, legalities as mundane and frustrating as they are .. they exist and are now starting to be enforced and wholesaling is going to get targeted at least the type of wholesaling that mimic's what a RE broker does .. .. and most people don't want to hear it.. if you want to learn.. contact your state DRE send them your business plan they will give you a written opinion of what your doing is legal or not.. I do hear that Florida is cracking down on wholesalers who are not licensed as well. one of the largest wholesalers in Florida has commented on this thread. I have funded over 100 deals for his clients .
If all you want is ra ra its all good then I guess that's your purgative.. but there is some pretty experienced folks on this site and its just about trying to be fair and balanced.. not be like the gurus who espouse many methods of RE that are no longer tolerated relevant or legal.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
good points the only rebuttal I have to your post is RE agents contractors appraisers lenders etc are all licensed and they stand to lose their livelihood is they screw up badly enough.. a non licensed wholesaler can botch a deal and they are immune .. no other industry would allow someone with no training no licensing to control thousands of dollars worth of assets they do not own. and if it goes bad just say well I am sorry it did not work.. LOL...
- Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 132 votes11y
I'm not quite sure why you tagged me on your comments, nor will I get drawn into the conversation.
If you purposely tagged me for my comments then I believe you totally missed my point.
- Flipper · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2014 · 26 posts · 11 votes11y
There is no such thing as bad publicity right. Great marketing! Brought the real wholesalers out and gained attention from many investors.
- Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
How could you even compare a wholesaler with a realtor? Realtors generally speaking have no understanding of investors needs and have an obligation to look after their vendors.
Wholesalers, in Memphis anyway, are generally well trained professional operators helping a lot of people rehab and own homes that no realtor would be able to get sold.
Totally insulting premise made by OP.
- Corona, CA · Member since 2014 · 154 posts · 100 votes11y
How about a petition to discontinue anymore post from
@Brandon SturgillThat sounds like a better plan
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes11y
People!
Please do NOT quote Brandon's post that has a long string of mentions WITHOUT deleting all those he tagged, you are tagging everyone again to your one liner post that has nothing to do with them.
And, when you quote anyone that quoted another, you're tagging the person with the original post as well, that might be what you want, but maybe not.
Please delete unnecessary @mentions when quoting another's post.
No, I'm not a moderator, just a lowly contributor, let's have some forum etiquette please!
I see that so far, no one has looked up cognitive bias, how we justify doing what we do and deflect opinions of opposing views, especially when you know you are wrong.
@Ben Leybovich Your SO has a clean foot coming out of his mouth, putting BP in a category with Facebook, LOL. And, what the heck is Facebook?
Remember way way back there when I said Brandon was on his way to getting a 100 post thread?
I see we have a new "Joe Gore" newbie here too!
I have come to realize that compared to where BP was say 3 years ago, we are sliding in the quality of informative posts.
It's rather difficult to say, but this new wave of newbies bouncing in speaking authoritatively as if they know something is getting harder to keep up with, then include the sharks looking for prey, the wanabe gurus, and those that don't understand Chapter One of the Principles of Real Estate and we have a real mess! I call it forum chatter.
It's clear that when people speak of "buying at a discount" "buying under market value" calling real estate a "product" , "buy low sell high" they don't have a clue as to what they are doing, some even have the audacity or impudence of saying they "teach" others! The blind leading the blind, neither can see the train coming.
Back to wholesalers and Realtors, like anything else some practitioners are better than others. A brand new agent probably can't do a workup on a rehab, but many can and do. Having an attitude that a wholesaler has greater abilities, a greater education, more experience and more business than a seasoned real estate broker or agent is ludicrous, egotistical and plain foolish.
Here's my opinion of where we are now: 5% of BP knows real estate, can sit down without study and pass an agent's test, they know the laws, the terms, the ethics, the facts surrounding RE transactions. 20% have a working knowledge of what they do, but probably can't function in just any area, and some simply don't keep up with changes. Another 40% are lacking general business knowledge as well as RE aspects and don't recognize the fact that RE is not like dealing in shoes or selling bubble gum. While this bunch may be well spoken and seem to provide logical guidance, they are dangerous. The remainder doesn't have a clue.
Reason I mention this is that the readers of BP really need reshape their understanding and education concerning real estate and it's your due diligence to select competent advisers.
There is no greater area of due diligence in the public forums concerning real estate than in wholesaling.
If someone claims to do 50 deals a month and made 10 million last year, that is not a qualification to teach or instruct others, same with any niche of the business, claims made are "hooks" with "bait" for the starry eyed beginner.
BP is a business, a platform for a topic that interests many, hats off to Josh who had the vision and personal knowledge of real estate to provide this social platform, I'm sure he's doing well. BP isn't "in" the world of academia (accredited educational teachings), it's social and allows the public to share information. an opportunity to learn from others.
That 5% I mentioned use to be 20%, they are being overrun by the majority which makes due diligence for those wanting to learn even tougher.
And, don't let "popularity" be the influencing factor, you can always have popular posters who post bad information that most want to hear or agree with.
A good marketer can market about anything, but most in RE that have a marketing influence usually get it wrong treating RE like a pair of shoes. RE is not a product like consumer goods, disposable, having price points that can be sold to naive buyers without consequences. While deceptive trade practices and gouging may apply to products, in real estate, it's predatory practices and it's highly regulated.
Wholesalers enter this area under misconceptions of it being the place to start, that is very wrong, the concept is easy to understand, the execution of doing a good job or attaining the goal, ethically and legally, can be very difficult.
You really need to understand real estate before trying to deal in real estate, by the time you do learn the basics (about 3 weeks of self study) you probably won't need to start in wholesaling, even if you do lack capital, have poor credit, no job and no assets. Get a real education.
Rant for the day! :)
- Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes11y
I have not read this beyond the first post/op.
Is this a truly serious idea or are you trolling?
What a silly idea...
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