Does anyone own Four or more Turnkeys?
Most Popular Reply
Chris ClothierBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes@Matt R. ,
First, I know that Saturdays are probably a busy day for you, but if you can get away this Saturday I am going to be out in California. I am going to be talking about a lot of data, numbers and processes of Memphis Invest this Saturday morning in Orange County. I know that is probably two hours for you, but would love to chat with you about business and share with you some of how we work and get your thoughts. Saturday morning will be our event and we will have about 150 investors there - 40 of which are current investors and right now there are 14 who own 5 or more properties.
Would love to have you there and everyone is free to talk to any investors in the room to hear about the good and the bad. They will share warts and all! Plus we are giving them their 2014 analysis at that event so they will see exactly how their portfolio performed last year. It will be up to them, but I'm sure all will share how they performed.
I am also going to drive up the BP Meetup in the Beverly Hills area that afternoon. There I will just be a guest and looking forward to meeting other BP members, but would still welcome the chance to meet and talk.
Finally, Sunday...I may be able to hit the surf! As soon as I finalize my schedule I will reach out and see if its possible to grab a lesson from you!
The numbers:
We have a designation for investors with 5 or more properties. They are called the WOW Group. They have wowed us by purchasing what is essentially a half million dollar portfolio and we want to WOW them with extra service. Here is the breakdown on our investors for total transparency:
Investors - Properties
126 WOW Group with 5 or more - 850 properties
1 with 15 - 15 properties
1 with 14 - 14 properties
2 with 13 - 26 properties
1 with 12 - 12 properties
2 with 11 - 22 properties
4 with 10 - 40 properties
5 with 9 - 45 properties
17 with 8 - 136 properties
20 with 7 - 140 properties
35 with 6 - 210 properties
38 with 5 - 190 properties
60 with 4 - 240 properties
115 with 3 - 345 properties
267 with 2 - 534 properties
469 with 1 - 469 properties
Just illustrates how long it takes to build up an investors portfolio. Part of our problem now is so many investors that they have to be patient when buying their next property. We sell between 58% and 64% of our monthly closings to current investors buying their next property. With an average of 56 closings per month, that means investors simply have to be patient if they want to continue to buy with us. That takes planning and patience.
As for the investors with 1 property, most are set and have a plan to buy more. Many first purchased in 2013, 2014, 2015, but there are probably 100-150 of them who will not purchase another property. Some were mistakes on our part, some were mistakes on the investors part (no Turnkey investor should ever stop at one property - in my opinion if they do there was a mistake made). I would be a liar if I said all of them were completely, 100% satisfied with their investment. Some of those investors with one property will not buy a second from us and many are still sitting on one property from back in 2009-2011.
Again, that shows an error on our part, but a vast majority of those investors will build beyond 2 or 3 - it just takes time to push them up the ladder.
64 Replies
- 11ySharad M.Pro MemberCarlsbad, CA · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Sharad M. Nice. Sounds like you are doing a bang up job out there! This industry is still under 20 years old so it has not fully matured yet. I would expect if I ask this question in 10 years more that two BPers will report 4+.
I have to factor there might only be a couple hundred regular bpers and of that a small percentage in the TK space. This is not exactly a total data population that I can derive any industry publishable stats. The question becomes how many folks on BP woke up today and feel like posting. I have met some bpers who have over a dozen in the LA area... not TKs formally, but still never post a single word. So thanks for raising your hand here!
Thanks, Matt. Another thing I will note is that a very small percentage of TK buyers will be active participating BP members. Some of the BP members that I work with are not active at all and might not respond to questions about number of properties they own out of state.
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Sharad M. For sure. This post is about as a non scientific sample as you can get. When the Co Captain of BP only gets a couple responses I had to double check what was up with that. For the BP reported record so far - Anish is tops at 8 turnkeys. My Wizard of Oz theory might be accurate. I think the TK concept is still great regardless.
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Hey @Matt R.
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Chris Clothier Thanks for taking the time Chris. BPers can always count on you and your companies vast experience to deliver transparent realism to the turnkey conversation. We all do really appreciate that!
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
I was reading BP Brandons latest turnkey blog post and there were just a couple comments. I know there are some bpers into turnkeys but when you check they only have 2 or 3 turnkeys tops...even with the bp folks who are the biggest advocates...they don't have more purchased.
It seems odd as it gets a lot of attention but when you start to pull back the layers....well it is like the Wizard of Oz...just one guy behind a curtain making a lot of noise.
Now I am talking about from a traditional TK company, I was curious is there anyone on BP who has bought four or more?
How many?
What is your longest hold time?
Thanks!
Hey Matt,
We have quite a few investors that own numerous turnkey properties around the US.
I was once told by a previous mentor that the "life party" starts after you buy property #7.
No loans off course haha
Thanks mate :)
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Engelo Rumora Thanks for commenting G unit! That makes sense if you get to the 7+ number let's say - the TK application starts to snowball it appears. I think Chris commented once, one way to do this was to pay cashola and that gives you the peace of mind to go with the flow unencumbered. Honestly guys, if I could get 10 from Chris and 10 from Engelo and let the race begin I would.
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Engelo Rumora Thanks for commenting G unit! That makes sense if you get to the 7+ number let's say - the TK application starts to snowball it appears. I think Chris commented once, the way to do this was to pay cashola and that gives you the peace of mind to go with the flow unencumbered. Honestly guys, if I could get 10 from Chris and 10 from Engelo and let the race begin I would.
Thanks Matt,
We are still small fish compared to Chris and Memphis Invest :)
Its always a pleasure having my name pop up next to Chrises tho.
Thanks mate and keep the dream alive.
Check this link out for a good laugh -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/GDayMateHowAreYa/?fref=nf
Started 3 days ago and getting quite a few videos.
Have a great day.
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Engelo Rumora Thanks for commenting G unit! That makes sense if you get to the 7+ number let's say - the TK application starts to snowball it appears. I think Chris commented once, one way to do this was to pay cashola and that gives you the peace of mind to go with the flow unencumbered. Honestly guys, if I could get 10 from Chris and 10 from Engelo and let the race begin I would.
ps. - G Unit? haha wtf?
lollol
It has to be "Wassup Man" or "G'Day Mate!"
haha :)
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Matt R. ,
First, I know that Saturdays are probably a busy day for you, but if you can get away this Saturday I am going to be out in California. I am going to be talking about a lot of data, numbers and processes of Memphis Invest this Saturday morning in Orange County. I know that is probably two hours for you, but would love to chat with you about business and share with you some of how we work and get your thoughts. Saturday morning will be our event and we will have about 150 investors there - 40 of which are current investors and right now there are 14 who own 5 or more properties.
Would love to have you there and everyone is free to talk to any investors in the room to hear about the good and the bad. They will share warts and all! Plus we are giving them their 2014 analysis at that event so they will see exactly how their portfolio performed last year. It will be up to them, but I'm sure all will share how they performed.
I am also going to drive up the BP Meetup in the Beverly Hills area that afternoon. There I will just be a guest and looking forward to meeting other BP members, but would still welcome the chance to meet and talk.
Finally, Sunday...I may be able to hit the surf! As soon as I finalize my schedule I will reach out and see if its possible to grab a lesson from you!
The numbers:
We have a designation for investors with 5 or more properties. They are called the WOW Group. They have wowed us by purchasing what is essentially a half million dollar portfolio and we want to WOW them with extra service. Here is the breakdown on our investors for total transparency:
Investors - Properties
126 WOW Group with 5 or more - 850 properties
1 with 15 - 15 properties
1 with 14 - 14 properties
2 with 13 - 26 properties
1 with 12 - 12 properties
2 with 11 - 22 properties
4 with 10 - 40 properties
5 with 9 - 45 properties
17 with 8 - 136 properties
20 with 7 - 140 properties
35 with 6 - 210 properties
38 with 5 - 190 properties
60 with 4 - 240 properties
115 with 3 - 345 properties
267 with 2 - 534 properties
469 with 1 - 469 propertiesJust illustrates how long it takes to build up an investors portfolio. Part of our problem now is so many investors that they have to be patient when buying their next property. We sell between 58% and 64% of our monthly closings to current investors buying their next property. With an average of 56 closings per month, that means investors simply have to be patient if they want to continue to buy with us. That takes planning and patience.
As for the investors with 1 property, most are set and have a plan to buy more. Many first purchased in 2013, 2014, 2015, but there are probably 100-150 of them who will not purchase another property. Some were mistakes on our part, some were mistakes on the investors part (no Turnkey investor should ever stop at one property - in my opinion if they do there was a mistake made). I would be a liar if I said all of them were completely, 100% satisfied with their investment. Some of those investors with one property will not buy a second from us and many are still sitting on one property from back in 2009-2011.
Again, that shows an error on our part, but a vast majority of those investors will build beyond 2 or 3 - it just takes time to push them up the ladder.
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Engelo Rumora That's funny...yes you are urban mining in America now:) You are OG in Ohio turnkey style!
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Engelo Rumora That's funny...yes you are urban mining in America now:) You are OG in Ohio turnkey style!
hahaha
I like this one better
How you feel, how you feel, how you feel? hahahaha
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Chris Clothier Wow Chris, you are awesome! Thanks for those stats! I will see if I can get to the OC and or BH meetings. The Bev Hills one is more likely as I am just a stones throw away. I do appreciate the invites and look forward to meeting up.
The surfing stuff is always on the table for you/teams and family as well. The summer might be better conditions as far as the water temps go and to make it feel like Hawaii style. We are rolling in Santa Monica and Venice nearly everyday conditions permitting. Gracias.
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Engelo Rumora Thanks for commenting G unit! That makes sense if you get to the 7+ number let's say - the TK application starts to snowball it appears. I think Chris commented once, the way to do this was to pay cashola and that gives you the peace of mind to go with the flow unencumbered. Honestly guys, if I could get 10 from Chris and 10 from Engelo and let the race begin I would.
Thanks Matt,
We are still small fish compared to Chris and Memphis Invest :)
Its always a pleasure having my name pop up next to Chrises tho.
Thanks mate and keep the dream alive.
Check this link out for a good laugh -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/GDayMateHowAreYa/?fref=nf
Started 3 days ago and getting quite a few videos.
Have a great day.
You won't be small fish for long if you keep getting better every day! I hear nothing but good things so keep up the good work. Getting better every day is the best way to get bigger!
- Investor · Hampton Roads, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 418 votes11y
My first purchase was a TK. I have not looked regularly for another one since. The cash flow is not as good in my area. Since that one, I have bought beat up and then rehabbed properties. I did put an offer in on a foreclosure today that is TK, but don't expect to get it. TK is really nice, but usually not cash flow friendly in my area.
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Engelo Rumora Thanks for commenting G unit! That makes sense if you get to the 7+ number let's say - the TK application starts to snowball it appears. I think Chris commented once, the way to do this was to pay cashola and that gives you the peace of mind to go with the flow unencumbered. Honestly guys, if I could get 10 from Chris and 10 from Engelo and let the race begin I would.
Thanks Matt,
We are still small fish compared to Chris and Memphis Invest :)
Its always a pleasure having my name pop up next to Chrises tho.
Thanks mate and keep the dream alive.
Check this link out for a good laugh -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/GDayMateHowAreYa/?fref=nf
Started 3 days ago and getting quite a few videos.
Have a great day.
You won't be small fish for long if you keep getting better every day! I hear nothing but good things so keep up the good work. Getting better every day is the best way to get bigger!
Thanks Chris,
Your kind words are much appreciated.
Speak soon mate :)
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
those are very interesting stat's.. I consult with a company that does non recourse lending for IRA buyers buying turn key's and the investors that provide the loans are same type of investors that buy houses just on the debt side not the equity side. ( like a Peak in KC)
If we ran the investor tally's they would just about mirror your stat's our largest note investor has 34 notes and of course there is no leverage in notes so that represents about 2 mil in cash.. 95% of this companies investors use IRA funds to purchase the notes.. Since inception 3 years ago we are at about 450 notes in force, and happy to say and its hard to believe but not one foreclosure.. we have had a few payment snafu's when Wells cut off shore accounts abruptly.. But pretty darn good track record for sure. But like I tell the owner we will have a default you just can't have that many notes in play and be 100% just like you can't have a rental portfolio of 450 homes and be 100% occupied. And like you this company gets a whole lot of repeat business ( good performance creates this along with referrals)
Bottom line its about performance and after care..
I remember back in the 60's and 70's when my Dad had his RE companies' the biggest issue we had was corralling the sales agent and what they represented to the buyer.. Sales agent was long gone but we were stuck with what they had represented to the buyer.. For this reason I totally agree with MI marketing model Control your buyers.. Do not let 3rd party vendors into the middle of your deals.. you never know what the heck a hungry salesmen told a client.. And with your outfit as its so keen on after care ... your going to back up your product.. These are the little things about Turn Key that kind of get swept under the rug and or the buying public is not aware. You have third parties making representations for your product. !!
- 11yMatt R.Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesOP
@Account Closed Based on Chris Clothier's stats there are only 33 investors out of 1,037 who hold 8 or more TK rentals. That puts your 8 turnkeys in perspective and in an elite club that way.
Not that you need a pat on the back or anything but hey Anish that is not just a good job....it is a remarkable job! Of course it is not a competition - but if it was you just won!
And now for your prize;
Thanks.
- Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes11y
@Matt R. Lol. Actually its eye opening to me as well I would have thought there are a lot of people with more properties. I don't know why people would consider that a big secret! I'm fully convinced that its a viable business to own these rentals only if you are willing to own at least 8-10 rentals. There is just too much variability in returns on any single property. And there is a huge learning curve, understanding the market, building a good support team etc. Its hardly worth all that effort for $200/month in a good month! The other thing is as I got more and more into the RE business, many other opportunities opened up to me and have made me more than my rentals in many cases. The game will not be won until I successfully capture the gains and exit and that won't happen for a few more years. Until then its all on paper.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Lakewood, CA · Member since 2008 · 96 posts · 31 votes11y
Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:
@Matt R. ,
First, I know that Saturdays are probably a busy day for you, but if you can get away this Saturday I am going to be out in California. I am going to be talking about a lot of data, numbers and processes of Memphis Invest this Saturday morning in Orange County. I know that is probably two hours for you, but would love to chat with you about business and share with you some of how we work and get your thoughts. Saturday morning will be our event and we will have about 150 investors there - 40 of which are current investors and right now there are 14 who own 5 or more properties.
Would love to have you there and everyone is free to talk to any investors in the room to hear about the good and the bad. They will share warts and all! Plus we are giving them their 2014 analysis at that event so they will see exactly how their portfolio performed last year. It will be up to them, but I'm sure all will share how they performed.
I am also going to drive up the BP Meetup in the Beverly Hills area that afternoon. There I will just be a guest and looking forward to meeting other BP members, but would still welcome the chance to meet and talk.
Finally, Sunday...I may be able to hit the surf! As soon as I finalize my schedule I will reach out and see if its possible to grab a lesson from you!
The numbers:
We have a designation for investors with 5 or more properties. They are called the WOW Group. They have wowed us by purchasing what is essentially a half million dollar portfolio and we want to WOW them with extra service. Here is the breakdown on our investors for total transparency:
Investors - Properties
126 WOW Group with 5 or more - 850 properties
1 with 15 - 15 properties
1 with 14 - 14 properties
2 with 13 - 26 properties
1 with 12 - 12 properties
2 with 11 - 22 properties
4 with 10 - 40 properties
5 with 9 - 45 properties
17 with 8 - 136 properties
20 with 7 - 140 properties
35 with 6 - 210 properties
38 with 5 - 190 properties
60 with 4 - 240 properties
115 with 3 - 345 properties
267 with 2 - 534 properties
469 with 1 - 469 propertiesJust illustrates how long it takes to build up an investors portfolio. Part of our problem now is so many investors that they have to be patient when buying their next property. We sell between 58% and 64% of our monthly closings to current investors buying their next property. With an average of 56 closings per month, that means investors simply have to be patient if they want to continue to buy with us. That takes planning and patience.
As for the investors with 1 property, most are set and have a plan to buy more. Many first purchased in 2013, 2014, 2015, but there are probably 100-150 of them who will not purchase another property. Some were mistakes on our part, some were mistakes on the investors part (no Turnkey investor should ever stop at one property - in my opinion if they do there was a mistake made). I would be a liar if I said all of them were completely, 100% satisfied with their investment. Some of those investors with one property will not buy a second from us and many are still sitting on one property from back in 2009-2011.
Again, that shows an error on our part, but a vast majority of those investors will build beyond 2 or 3 - it just takes time to push them up the ladder.
Thanks Chris for sharing this info, and I look forward to seeing this Saturday for Memphis Invest. I met you last month at Kaaren Hall's REI Club. Take care and enjoy Cali.
- Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
from every post I have read from Ali Boone she ONLY buys turn keys and only invests out of state maybe you can ping her and see how many turn key's she actually owns. form her post it sounds like she probably owns quite a few.. unless she is talking about the same one she may or may not own,, and talking about it over and over. :)
But good question all in all. I think one restriction folks have these days which may keep the numbers down is the issues with getting more than 4 mortgages.
Agreed. This is a good question. I don't know anyone who owns more than 2-3 out-of-area TKs, but surely there are many out there.
I don't think Ali B. has yet revealed that she owns a lot of TK rentals. Just that she market and sells a lot in several markets..
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
@Chris Clothier Wow Chris, you are awesome! Thanks for those stats! I will see if I can get to the OC and or BH meetings. The Bev Hills one is more likely as I am just a stones throw away. I do appreciate the invites and look forward to meeting up.
The surfing stuff is always on the table for you/teams and family as well. The summer might be better conditions as far as the water temps go and to make it feel like Hawaii style. We are rolling in Santa Monica and Venice nearly everyday conditions permitting. Gracias.
Hey Matt, no problem on sharing the data. I just realized that the stats I shared are also Memphis only. That being said, we have quite a number of clients who own property in Dallas and/or Houston as well. It won't change the numbers by a significant margin, but we are managing an additional 500 properties in Texas. So there are some additional investors with more properties, but I think the point is made. It takes a while to build a portfolio and the assumption that most TK investors are not to the level of any critical mass is correct.
We need to revisit this in 12 months - get more TK companies to share some numbers - and see what kind of progress has been made....
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Hey @Bernie Germani - really looking forward to seeing you in OC. You're lucky, my father Kent Clothier, Sr. is going to be out there with me as well as some of our team. My dad does not travel as much as I do, so for me anyway, it is a real treat when he talks in front of investors. Gives people a real good sense of our passion for how we operate.
Plus, as it relates to this question anyway, you can speak to other investors including close to a dozen who own 5 or more and get there thoughts and ideas. See you there!
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
if you had that private jet I have been showing you that would change :)
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Lakewood, CA · Member since 2008 · 96 posts · 31 votes11y
Chris,
I have your dad's vacant home/ high equity motivated seller program, and that turned my business around early 2014. Now we are looking forward to turnkey opportunities for our portfolio, through our self directed IRA. See you next Saturday...
- 11yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Jay Hinrichs - After watching @Brian Burke 's video in San Francisco from his presentation (anyone who attended Brian's talk at that Meetup back in November will know what I am talking about) I am going to stick with commercial! My oldest son wants to learn to fly so one day....maybe. But not anytime soon.
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