Yet another "Tennant got a dog" post. Concern about retaliation

General Landlording & Rental Properties
4yFollow

Yet another "Tennant got a dog" post. Concern about retaliation

Cali Skier
Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes

First off, great forum, I really appreciate all the help we have received here.

Second, I am not emotional about this, its a business decision for me, I am in this to make money.

We have tenants that are renting our property, they pay on time and actually early every month.  The grass is always cut, they seam to be taking care of the place.  They are a nice family that is not married but has 4 kids.  They paid first and last months rent. We have a very nice house that we updated, painted and put in new laminate flooring.  We have not done an inspection yet but should have.  We got a call 5 months ago because they wanted a dog.  We told them $300-$500 deposit on top of the existing $1500 deposit.   They said they would not get one, we trusted them on this.  Well, we believe they have a dog because I was over there last weekend to check on something outside.  Lots of feces in the backyard grass, paw prints all over the back patio and the back door is a little chewed on.  

Lease is up April 1st.  Here is what I plan to do about it.  First, I believe I know what kind of dog it is, and if its that dog we would have accepted it.  I plan to do an inspection for smoke detectors this Thursday or Friday giving 24 hour notice.  I want to know if the property inside is well maintained.  I will walk through it and I assume the dog will not be there.  After the inspection is over AND I am happy with the care of the house I plan to politely address the dog in this matter.  We know there is a dog living or visiting this house and while it would have been better if you would have just told us, you have otherwise been good tenants.  We need to see a picture of the dog and we need a deposit in the amount of XXXXX.  If you would like to continue living in this house, we need you sign this new 1 year lease agreement starting April first at $75 more per month (5% increase) to bring you closer to market. We would except a payment of $50 a month to pay down the deposit for the dog.  The $50 goes away once you have paid the deposit.  If this is not acceptable to you, you have violated the lease and we will give you until March 1st to get out of the house. 

What do you think of this, I do not want them to pour concrete down my toilet.  The other option is to just tell them we know they have a dog, and because of that we are not renewing the lease after April first they must be out, and let them come up with their own solution because we know they do not want to move, they asked to renew the lease about 6 weeks ago.

Thanks in advance.

0Reply
23 views

Most Popular Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y

@Cali Skier you've received some pretty good advice here.

These are not good renters. They asked the rule, you told them, then they consciously violated it. If they can't afford a $300 pet fee, then they can't afford to replace the carpet, repair the scratched up doors, and repair the dug up lawn when they move out. This is headed the wrong direction and needs to be stopped.

You have enough evidence to stand up in court. Even if the feces didn't belong to their dog, it's at least a visiting dog and that should be a violation. Take pictures of the yard, take a screenshot of the dog on their bed, and whatever else you find during your inspection. Then I would sit on it. When it comes time for renewal, let them know you are not renewing their lease and expect them out. Use the deposit to cover cleaning and repairs, then deduct the $300 - $500 pet fee if there's any money left. When you send your final statement, let them know they were charged the animal fee as discussed and that you have photo evidence they had a dog. Then drop it. Don't get into a back-and-forth with them or negotiate something. They did wrong, you have proof, and they can fight it in court if they want (they won't).

This process also prevents them from skirting your policies by magically labeling the dog an emotional support animal.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
WebsiteView Page
3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

15 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    Glad you are staying focused and rational rather than getting emotional about it.

    Combining the issue of the dog and the lease renewal makes this very complicated.  It is far easier to separate those issues completely.

    If you find a dog, it is a lease violation.  You give send them a letter saying they need to properly add the dog to their lease or get rid of the dog within X days. The letter should state, matter of factly, that if the issue is not resolved, you will seek possession of the unit through the courts.  We've had this approach go several ways.  Some times they just pay the deposit and legitimize the dog.  Some times they get rid of the dog.  Some times they give you the keys and walk away.  It's their choice.  All you are doing is enforcing the contract they signed.  Even if they leave, you can still assess damages out of their current security deposit, including any damages caused by the dog.

    Once you've done that, the discussion on lease renewal is fairly simple and straight forward.

    1Reply
  • Cali Skier
    OP
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    Greg, thanks for your response, this is helping me think through it.  A couple of things I am thinking here...

    1.  I see your point about the increase rent and the deposit in the same discussion is not a good plan

    2. Getting rid of the dog... A couple of things at play here...

      A. I have to assume that hidden damage is done already.  I think I need to insist they pay the deposit if they wish to stay.

      B.  They have the 4 kids, I see them "getting rid of the dog" for a week or so and then brining it back, i don't want to chase that.

    I think, taking your approach, I can do it cordially and tell them.  We need you to sign this pet addendum in the next 7 days and agree to pay $50 per month until xxxx is fully paid.  Because you have violated the lease, if we do not have the first $50 payment for January in 7 days we will use the courts to seek possession of the property 30 days from that 7th day.  I will have to learn how to do that (process an evection via the courts)  

    They will try to make me prove they have a dog.  All I have is the feces, paw prints, outside door damage and a photo I found of the dog on a website that does not show the house but is a closeup of the dog on a bedspread that is in the house.  I don't know if this is enough proof.

    0Reply
  • Jackie Cramer
    Rental Property Investor · North Jersey Shore · Member since 2020 · 102 posts · 49 votes
    4y

    Get  dog whistle  you know the ones thst are too high pitch for human hearing and stsnd outside the unit, eay am or well sfter dsrk, put your lips together...and blow. There will be your proof

    1Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    My worry would be if you push the dog issue too much they are going to do some googling and this dog will magically transform into an ESA.  The deposit you are asking for isn't going to cover much and I would focus on revenue.  I would increase the rent to market, maybe slightly over but not enough to be worth moving.  You have the dog there but are getting more a month and don't have to worry about it becoming an ESA.  I would also stick to M2M instead of locking you both into a year.  They have shown they don't care about the lease and will leave when they want but don't close the door for yourself for a year in case you need them out for something else they choose not to care about.  

    0Reply
  • Michele FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Cali,

    You are getting good advice here.

    A few other things to consider.  

    - Try to settle out of court if you can, probably no need to threaten that right from the start.  They are out of compliance with the lease, they have 10 days to fix it or vacate, you intend to end the contract if they do not.  It would be a lot cheaper to not renew since the date is coming up soon than to evict.  You can use that as leverage, send them intent to not renew early if there is no change after 10 days.  Offer to let them out of their lease early, look for win-win compromises.

    - Get used to chasing whether they really got rid of the dog or not, that is a big part of landlording.  Unfortunately we always have to wonder and sleuth what people and animals are really living there.  If they pretend to get rid of the dog but don't I would not renew.

    - If you can get this issue resolved, I would plan to renew regardless of the state of the house.  The damage is done, it's really expensive to have turnover, a LOT of tenants lie, keep them in place if you can, your bottom line will be better off.  By you enforcing the lease they will learn something from this rather than taking a chance on someone new.

    - Start performing annual maintenance inspections.  Yes, it is a pain, yes, it can be expensive as issues are found, but it is so important to get inside and see what you can at least annually.

    Podcast Guest on Show #79
    0Reply
  • Cali Skier
    OP
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    Michele and Adam, I like the advice... I have looked more closely at the picture and did some of my own google sleuthing... i believe this is a pit bull puppy and my insurance will not cover this type of dog.   I don't think I have a choice but to not renew.   Like Michele said its a lot cheaper this close to the end of the lease to just not renew.  And I did think about them already being there, but sense it is a pit bull puppy I can't let them stay.  I just don't believe they will get rid of it, not with 4 kids.

    0Reply
  • Julie Hartman
    Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes
    4y

    @Cali Skier Your tenants may pay rent on time but they are dishonest. When this type of issue occurs we send a notice of lease violation, curable in X days, just as @Greg Scott said. If you are feeling generous, you can offer to let them keep the dog provided they cough up the required pet fees and sign a pet addendum immediately. If they have the funds to own a dog, they can pay the full pet deposit on the spot. And just in case they try to pull the ESA trick on you like @Adam Martin mentioned, they should know they would have needed to disclose that fact along with proper documentation ahead of time. My other favorite is the "dog sitting" excuse, which pops up from time to time. We have that one covered our lease too so hopefully you do as well. Good luck. 

    0Reply
  • Cali Skier
    OP
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    You guys are all so awesome... Julie "We have that one covered our lease too so hopefully you do as well."  Yes, we have that in our lease.  Rock on. 

    1Reply
  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    ESA? Not worried about that. Google the HUD guidelines for landlords. There is a ~20 page guide on that.

    Many residents will pay $50 bucks for a fake "Service Dog". Here is one we see a lot. usaservicedogs.org  BTW, clear giveaway is calling it a "service dog".  The correct legal term is "service animal".

    Following HUD guidelines we require a letter from a healthcare professional that is licensed in-state, one that appears to have an ongoing relationship with the resident. If the documentation does not meet that criteria, we have a form letter we give the resident that simply says "the information you have provided does not qualify your pet as an Emotional Support Animal".

    We've had a few residents that (I truly believe) qualify, and they have provided adequate evidence.  We've had many that haven't provided adequate evidence, and they back off once getting our form letter. We've never been challenged beyond that.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    @Cali Skier you've received some pretty good advice here.

    These are not good renters. They asked the rule, you told them, then they consciously violated it. If they can't afford a $300 pet fee, then they can't afford to replace the carpet, repair the scratched up doors, and repair the dug up lawn when they move out. This is headed the wrong direction and needs to be stopped.

    You have enough evidence to stand up in court. Even if the feces didn't belong to their dog, it's at least a visiting dog and that should be a violation. Take pictures of the yard, take a screenshot of the dog on their bed, and whatever else you find during your inspection. Then I would sit on it. When it comes time for renewal, let them know you are not renewing their lease and expect them out. Use the deposit to cover cleaning and repairs, then deduct the $300 - $500 pet fee if there's any money left. When you send your final statement, let them know they were charged the animal fee as discussed and that you have photo evidence they had a dog. Then drop it. Don't get into a back-and-forth with them or negotiate something. They did wrong, you have proof, and they can fight it in court if they want (they won't).

    This process also prevents them from skirting your policies by magically labeling the dog an emotional support animal.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Lease is up in April, dog is there now.  Don't wait.  Deal with it now.  You seem to have a plan and I think the plan is good.  If they don't agree to the increased rent and I would highly recommend petscreening.com as well and an addendum to the lease or they just deny they have one then I would serve them with a notice of lease violation.  

    From here you need to make a business decision.  Are you okay with them having a dog or is this something you are going to go to court over?  if you decide this is something you would go to court over I would suggest you don't and just don't renew the lease.  I would talk to your lawyer if you have one to see if courts in your area are likely to give possession over this type of lease violation.  I know locally they wouldn't so we would never go to court.  

    So, before April get this sorted and if they are denying it and this is something that is a red line for you, simply don't renew in April.  

    1Reply
  • Cali Skier
    OP
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    Nathan, I like your advice as well, that may be the way we go.  I need to look at Oklahoma law, I think if I hold back the deposit for the dog fee it would have to allign with what we usually do which is $100 not refundable and $200 is refundable less repairs.  Also if I am found in court to have withheld the deposit wrongly I have to pay either double or triple the amount.

    We had been adviced that we really needed to see the dog or find a neighbor to say they have seen it or at least hear it.  Is the evidence I have (feces, chewed door, tons of paw prints, photo of a dog on a bedspread and another photo where you can see that bedspread in the house, but no dog) enough to hold up in court?

    1Reply
  • Cali Skier
    OP
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 14 votes
    4y

    Few questions...

    1.  Can a pit bull be considered an Emotional Support Dog

    2.  Is this enough evidence for the courts for whatever:  Photos of feces, chewed door, tons of paw prints, photo of a dog on a bedspread and another photo where you can see that bedspread in the house, but no dog

    3.  Can I just not renew the lease for any reason?  Or can they take me to court and say I have to let them stay and sign a new lease.  This question comes from them saying WE HAVE NO DOG! Prove It!


    We are inspecting the property sunday morning.

    0Reply
  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    1) Unfortunately, any breed of dog or even kind of animal can be an emotional support animal. However, HUD guidelines allow you to remove any animal that is aggressive.

    2) Hopefully you won't need to go to court, but good that you have this information and likely  more from your inspection.

    3) Non-renewal is how we get rid of a lot of residents that have been causing problems. You need to have a reason and document it somewhere.  (Seems you have sufficient evidence already.)  If someone claims you have discriminated, violated fair housing, you want to be able to say "no, it was XYZ" and have some evidence.  Most residents know if they have been breaking the rules and are unlikely to pursue the fair housing path because their complaints would ring hollow in court.

    0Reply
  • Bob B.
    Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Look at their FB page and I bet you will find pictures of Fido on the parents or kids pages.  The tenant had tried to deceive you and they will never be a problem in the future.  I charge a $350 pet fee and at least $35 a month.  

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free