Utah-Based Beginner Investor — Looking to Learn & Grow
Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 8 votes
Utah-Based Beginner Investor — Looking to Learn & Grow
Most Popular Reply
Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votesQuote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
You’re ALWAYS better off investing locally, where it’s easier to:
- Learn the market
- Network to find deals
- Network to find contractors
- Be more hands-on
- Driveby property to keep tabs on it
- Network to find a decent Property Management Company (PMC)
Next best location is somewhere else you lived, where you have an existing network of family & friends to help you as accomplish the above list as needed.
If you invest OOS, your biggest challenge won't be finding properties to meet your goals on paper, it’ll be successfully outsourcing all of the above.
The biggest mistake we see OOS investors making in our market, over and over again, is not fully understanding Neighborhood/Property/Tenant Classes and how they impact your probability of success!
They all run their ROI numbers assuming Class A results – when buying Class B, C & even D rentals.
Then they’re shocked when their performance expectations aren't met😞
If you choose to invest OOS, and have little to no landlord experience, we highly recommend targeting Class B Neighborhoods/Properties/Tenants. If you target Class C, you better be prepared emotionally & financially for plenty of challenges.
You can find Class B properties in the Midwest to BRRRR, but it will take more digging and YOU will need to understand how to analyze & identify them - because a lot of agents, wholesalers, PMCs, etc. will try to sell you Class C or D misrepresented as Class B:
- Many of them don't know/care what Class the properties are, so they're incompetent.
- Others know exactly what they are doing, so should be labeled as crooks!
EITHER WAY YOU LOSE!
Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?
Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.
The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.
Both Property Class and Tenant Class will affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies you should target and be willing to deal with a property.
The Property Class will also impact the maintenance & renovations you do to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood”.
Why is that important?
Well, if you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will actually rent it?
Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?
So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met, and it may even be a financial disaster.
We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:
- Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
- Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
- Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”
Key metrics for each Property Class:
Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.
Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.
Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.
Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?
Check out this chart:
|
FICO Score |
Pct of Population |
Default Probability |
|
800 or more |
13.00% |
1.00% |
|
750-799 |
27.00% |
1.00% |
|
700-749 |
18.00% |
4.40% |
|
650-699 |
15.00% |
8.90% |
|
600-649 |
12.00% |
15.80% |
|
550-599 |
8.00% |
22.50% |
|
500-549 |
5.00% |
28.40% |
|
Less than 499 |
2.00% |
41.00% |
Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.
Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.
We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!
DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!
Horror Stories from those that did NOT Understand What they were Buying:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1137397-baltimore-a-path-to-never-ending-pain
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/432/topics/1231840-sell-at-a-loss-or-rent-at-a-loss
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/840134-memphis-turnkey-tenant-turnover-costs
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-experience-of-oos-investing-in-cleveland-after-15-years
Logical Property Management4.9459 Reviews
17 Replies
- 7moJay TolugantiPro MemberInvestor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2025 · 226 posts · 79 votes
Congrats on starting your journey. I would recommend below books to get yiur fundaments strong:
Strategy:
Rich man in Babylon
Robert Kiosaki
- Rich Dad Poor Dad
- Cashflow Quadrant
- Guide to investing
- Real book of Real Estate
Real Estate Journey:
Ken McKelroy
- ABCs of Real Estate Investing
- Advanced book of Real Estate Investing
- ABC of Property management
- 7moEthan HaiglerBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 111 posts · 58 votes
@Ruth Murga welcome! If you’d like to talk with anyone over the phone, I can be of service. I’m an out of state investor/agent/wholesaler/private lender. Happy to help, just DM me.
- Member since 2019 · 41 posts · 22 votes7mo
Welcome Ruth!
You'll probably get 50 different answers to this question. But for me, it was know your financial downside. If you go through the purchase process and end up with a property that doesn't rent or bad tenants, etc...how long is that sustainable? Your reserves become a pretty significant part of sustaining the property until things turn around.
Feel free to message me with any questions, I'd be happy to share my experience. - 7moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
You’re ALWAYS better off investing locally, where it’s easier to:
- Learn the market
- Network to find deals
- Network to find contractors
- Be more hands-on
- Driveby property to keep tabs on it
- Network to find a decent Property Management Company (PMC)
Next best location is somewhere else you lived, where you have an existing network of family & friends to help you as accomplish the above list as needed.
If you invest OOS, your biggest challenge won't be finding properties to meet your goals on paper, it’ll be successfully outsourcing all of the above.
The biggest mistake we see OOS investors making in our market, over and over again, is not fully understanding Neighborhood/Property/Tenant Classes and how they impact your probability of success!
They all run their ROI numbers assuming Class A results – when buying Class B, C & even D rentals.
Then they’re shocked when their performance expectations aren't met😞
If you choose to invest OOS, and have little to no landlord experience, we highly recommend targeting Class B Neighborhoods/Properties/Tenants. If you target Class C, you better be prepared emotionally & financially for plenty of challenges.
You can find Class B properties in the Midwest to BRRRR, but it will take more digging and YOU will need to understand how to analyze & identify them - because a lot of agents, wholesalers, PMCs, etc. will try to sell you Class C or D misrepresented as Class B:
- Many of them don't know/care what Class the properties are, so they're incompetent.
- Others know exactly what they are doing, so should be labeled as crooks!
EITHER WAY YOU LOSE!
Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?
Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.
The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.
Both Property Class and Tenant Class will affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies you should target and be willing to deal with a property.
The Property Class will also impact the maintenance & renovations you do to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood”.
Why is that important?
Well, if you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will actually rent it?
Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?
So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met, and it may even be a financial disaster.
We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:
- Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
- Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
- Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”
Key metrics for each Property Class:
Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.
Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.
Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?
Check out this chart:
FICO Score
Pct of Population
Default Probability
800 or more
13.00%
1.00%
750-799
27.00%
1.00%
700-749
18.00%
4.40%
650-699
15.00%
8.90%
600-649
12.00%
15.80%
550-599
8.00%
22.50%
500-549
5.00%
28.40%
Less than 499
2.00%
41.00%
Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.
Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.
We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!
DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!
Horror Stories from those that did NOT Understand What they were Buying:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1137397-baltimore-a-path-to-never-ending-pain
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/432/topics/1231840-sell-at-a-loss-or-rent-at-a-loss
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/840134-memphis-turnkey-tenant-turnover-costs
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-experience-of-oos-investing-in-cleveland-after-15-yearsLogical Property Management4.9459 Reviews - 7moMin ZhangBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Hi Ruth, welcome to the community. If you’re planning to invest locally, I’d suggest starting with a house hack. You can live in one unit and rent out the other to help cover your mortgage. The big plus is the lower down payment since you’re buying it as an owner-occupant, not a full investment property. It’s a nice, safer way to get started while building rental income. If you're seeking out of state. Turnkey is the best way to get started while you build your team. I'm happy to connect if you want to brainstorm strategies
- Inland Empire, CA · Member since 2017 · 151 posts · 79 votes7mo
Hi @Ruth Murga good to meet you. Welcome!
If I were just starting out, I'd get clear on what I actually want real estate to do for me.
How much do I want to earn and by when?
An extra $1000 a month in a few years is a very different target than replacing a 6 figure income.
From there, I'd look at which path realistically gets me there. Flips, short term rentals, house hacking, small multifamily, large apartment syndications, they all require different levels of capital, time, and involvement. I'd talk to as many people as possible who are actively doing each one and ask what it really takes.
Once I choose a lane, I'd go deep into learning, building relationships, possibly find a mentor, and then define the daily actions required to hit that goal.
Hope that helps. Happy to connect. - 7moJimmy LieuBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
Hey Ruth, welcome to BiggerPockets! The one piece of advice I’d give is to focus on learning and taking small, deliberate steps rather than rushing into your first deal, because building a strong foundation now will save you a lot of headaches later. Spend time understanding your target market, running the numbers, and connecting with other investors who can share real-world insights. For example, when I moved from Portland, Oregon to Columbus, Ohio in 2020 to start investing, I spent months studying neighborhoods, cash flow metrics, and building my team, and now I own 10+ rentals here. Picking a market with solid fundamentals—like strong population growth, job growth, and companies moving in—makes it easier to find deals that cash flow and appreciate over time. Happy to connect and answer any questions you have!
Jimmy Lieu, Red 1 Realty4.9120 Reviews - Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes7moDon't believe the hype on Facebook, people in The SubTo community actually DO get sued. Use a one on one mentor to learn the ropes and avoid getting sued.
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
- 7moAaron ZimmermanBusiness MemberAccountant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I'd recommend doing a sewer scope and due diligence on inherited residents.
Brick House CPAs53 Reviews - 7moRemington LymanBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
Welcome to BiggerPockets! I started off with a house hack. Is that possible for you?
- Member since 2021 · 9 posts · 15 votes7mo
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
Welcome to Bigger Pockets Ruth!
The advice I would give at a high level is don't feel like you have to purchase a property immediately, but take some time to educate yourself. Not long ago, I was in your position, so I'll share what my journey has looked like lately.
For me, I have wanted to invest in real estate for many years, but I really started my education in earnest about 7 months ago. Since then, I have read about a dozen or so real estate books from various authors and on various topics within real estate, consumed hundreds of hours of podcasts and Youtube and just this last week, I started making offers. It doesn't have to take this long for everyone; some people are ready to jump in right away, but that's what my journey has been.
Moving forward, I'll still learn a lot on my first deals, but at least I'll have an idea what is going on around me, what is expected of me as an investor, I'll understand what a good deal looks like and when to walk away. The extra time has really helped me shape my identity as a real estate investor and what my strategy will be.
Good luck to you as you begin your journey!
Thanks,
Don
- 7moMarc RiceBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votesChoose the right market depending on your investment plans/goals
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
Marc Rice | Investor Friendly Agent at Reafco Tailwind Team574 Reviews - Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 8 votes7mo
Thank you all for the warm welcome and the valuable insights! I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to share advice and experiences. This community is an incredible resource, and I’m excited to learn, grow, and contribute. Looking forward to connecting and learning from you all!
Thank you everyone for the insight.
- 7moSean GrahamBusiness MemberInvestor , CPA · Detroit, MI · Member since 2016 · 584 posts · 248 votes
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
Hi @Ruth Murga, welcome to the community! Utah is a great market to get your feet wet in.
If I had to give one piece of advice to someone just starting, it would be to factor tax strategy into your deal underwriting from day one, not just at tax time. Understanding how tools like accelerated depreciation can offset your taxable income will completely change how you evaluate a property's true cash flow and ROI.
Hope that helps!
Maven Cost Segregation Tax Advisors554 Reviews - 7moArman AhmedPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 937 votes
Quote from @Ruth Murga:
Hi everyone! My name is Ruth, and I’m based in Utah. I’m starting my journey in real estate investing and my main focus right now is learning. I’m excited to be part of this group and to learn from your experiences. Thank you for having me!
If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out, what would it be?
@Ruth Murga
The biggest tip I’d give a new investor is to start with simple, cash-flowing deals in markets where your money stretches further, like parts of the Midwest. You can learn the ropes, see real returns, and build confidence without overpaying or stressing over hot markets. Focus on understanding numbers, team building, and how to manage properties remotely if you’re out of state. It’s all about small, smart steps early on! - 7moChristina HawsBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · South Jordan, UT · Member since 2019 · 35 posts · 14 votes
Welcome Ruth! I am in Utah! When I started out, I binged listened to the Bigger Pockets podcasts and learned so much! I still love to listen to podcasts and read books that teach me. There are a number of great tips from others on this thread! I am happy to talk with you further, feel free to message me. Congrats on getting started!
Christina Haws Real Estate Services.54 Reviews - Lender · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2025 · 100 posts · 9 votes7mo
Welcome to the community, Ruth, and best of luck as you begin this journey! I am a residential investment loan officer and would be more than happy to serve as a resource to help you navigate through and become better educated about various lending programs and financing strategies.
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