Starting a Great "Turnkey" company...How?

Starting a Great "Turnkey" company...How?

Flipper/Rehabber · Mentor, OH · Member since 2011 · 121 posts · 51 votes

I know this post is long but if you ever thought of investing or have invested with a turnkey company could you help me?

Over the past 8 years I have worked hard to establish myself as both a investor friendly contractor and a real estate investor who specializes in flips 200,000 and under. I have worked in many different types of flipping/contracting including JV, Partners, Investors. I have had the pleasure of being apart of about 30 flips mostly, about 20 in the last 2 years. As I stated in previous posts I am going full time into real estate investing to work on my business. This past year has really opened my eyes to the lack of good turnkey companies in Northeast Ohio. I have redone/fixed 4 properties this year that turnkey companies sold to out of state investors. The standards, craftsmanship and overall product was disgusting, sad and unethical. I am tired of seeing "turnkey" companies hurt Northeast Ohio. I see short term practicing in a long term game and I want to change that.

In the next year I am focusing on 2 things: Retail Fix and Flips and developing a Turnkey company. I have read a ton of posts on bp on turnkey companies and understand the importance of following the rule as it seems not only the product of the home is important but also property management (which in the state of ohio must be done under a broker). 

There is a lot to learn in managing a turnkey but I am more worried about what individuals/investors expect, demand and want in a turnkey company. From that I am going to focus developing my turnkey business on those. I would love to hear suggestions, ideas, wants, needs. I will do my business out of Northeast Ohio in both suburbs and Cleveland. Basically A-D neighborhoods. 

Basically the question could read: What would be the perfect turnkey company? What would they do that others don't? Expectations, ROI, Price, Neighborhoods, etc.

1Reply
97 views

Most Popular Reply

Chris ClothierBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y

 John - I have a long answer, forgive me on the front end!!   It is great that you are flexing your entrepreneurial spirit and setting up a Turnkey company.  I don't necessarily have empirical data to show the number of investors that want to invest passively, but I have been talking to and working with investors going on 11 years now and my perception is that passive investors far outnumber active investors.

When you see all of the demand for Turnkey product, it is easy to realize that if you are willing to work hard and develop a quality, service company, you can enter that market and get a piece of that demand.  I have worked with maybe a dozen companies and am writing a blog this week for the BP Blog about turnkey companies and the investor that should avoid them.  It will also answer some of your question, but here are a few pointers.

 - Quality matters!  As you have already seen in your area, poor quality requires the investor to come behind and do more work.  It cost dollars and time, the two things passive investors (any investor for that matter) does not want to lose.  If you want to build a solid reputation, start with the quality of your properties and the quality of the work done.

 - You must build a profitable company.  You have to be profitable in order to build a team around you that provides high quality and high service.  @Curt Davis was correct when he noted the size of our company and the reasoning.  We set out with a goal to be the best at what we do.  We built a team around us and have always been willing to invest in our company.  New people, new technology, new services.  None of that happens if you are not profitable.  (FYI - the company that Curt works for is a quality operation and we meet regularly with the owner of that company to talk about best practices.  We learn as much from them as they may learn from us even though we are "competitors".  Realize that there is an abundance of business and a HUGE demand for quality so there is plenty for everyone).

 - DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR BEING PROFITABLE.  I cannot tell you the number of times investors have stood up in a room full of other investors and said they would rather do business with a profitable company ALL DAY LONG!  They understand that a cut rate, "cheap" company CANNOT provide the service that a passive investor wants and needs.  You are providing service to your clients for years to come and the only way you are able to survive and thrive as a service provider is by offering your service at a fair price...but a profitable one as well.  

 - You become more profitable by improving your relationships on the buy side.  Buy homes at a proper price for you to be able to do the work needed on the property and make a profit as a service provider, YET still provide the passive investor - your client - with a high quality, consistent and fair return on their investment.  The same rules apply - you make money when you buy the properties.  Buy them at a fair price, drive down your renovation costs through volume and offer the property at a price that helps you to be a profitable company offering a quality product.

 - Do Not Try To Compete On Price!  Companies that compete on price, in my opinion, lose sight of the fact that these investments are long-term.  Cheap properties and cheap prices lead to poor investments.  A company without the needed capital to grow, cannot compete on REAL VALUE for investors.  Value that comes from systems, workforce, communication, service programs.  So companies that do not have money to grow, cannot offer value-added services.  So they try to compete on being the cheapest and that - again, in my opinion - is not the route you would want to take.  Compete on real value for the investor provided that you truly offer real value.

 - Property management can be a huge difference maker.  Being great at property management can be the true differentiator between you and other companies in your area.  Having built our company to managing over 2,700 properties today in three different markets, I can tell you that I do not agree with aligning or hiring a local broker, especially not one retired or retiring and done with their career.  Why?  They have their own ideas about real estate and they come from an old school thinking about property management.   If that is your only option for having a licensed broker, then I would use them ONLY for the license.  Do not use them to run your company - again, my opinion.

Instead, use someone from your inner circle, someone on your team.  Think about what you have seen already - the low quality.  As a property manager, be a high quality provider.  Build a company that manages only the highest quality renovations - yours!  Hire and train great people to be friendly yet stern with tenants and train your entire team that quality and service are what will set you apart.  

***  It is very important to remember that tenants are your clients as well.  A happy tenant stays longer, is willing to pay a premium for great service, will handle minor issues for you and be more than willing to extend lease agreements and tell others to rent from you.  It takes TEAM MEMBERS to offer these services. 

Part of being a profitable Turnkey company means that you are able to subsidize the property management company.  You can hire team members to answer every phone call and return tenant issue calls.  You can hire team members to close every rental contract in a professional manner and cover up the tenants with great service.  A happy tenant absolutely leads to happy investors.

Two quick things.  I firmly believe that a company that concentrates on quality will have no choice but to grow in quantity  Your clients and investors will demand it.  We have worked with and trained other entrepreneurs many times over and helped them develop Turnkey companies.  I have offered to help many others and it amazes me how few take us up on it.  I know it feels unconventional to have someone you view as a competitor actually help you.  So, some entrepreneurs simply do not take us up on it.  We do not do it for free, our time and knowledge is valuable to us, but we share with others and host entrepreneurs several times a year at our Memphis offices to learn.

Feel free to reach out.  I still have coffee and lunch with two other local companies on a fairly regular basis and we all share ideas and tips about what is working and what is not working.  I travel a little bit speaking at different financial and real estate events and always meet with other Turnkey company owners to share.

When you have an abundance mentality, you can build anything without fear of others.  When you have a scarcity mentality, you will always fear others and worry that the deal in front of you is the last deal you will do.  

Have an abundance mentality in all that you do.  Be the absolute best at what you do and use your marketing to compete on value and not on price.  Be profitable yet fair and you can do awesome things.  We are proof of that in Memphis, Dallas and now Houston.  Be great, concentrate on relationships and you can grow your company.  Best of luck as you start to move forward!  

See this reply in the discussion

36 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Mentor, OH · Member since 2011 · 121 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    @Chris Clothier When you made the switch to better neighborhoods how did you identify an A, B, C neighborhood. @Mike D'Arrigo same for you what is your criteria for determining what a neighborhood is. I thought of a few things: Per Capita Income, Crime Rate, Appreciation am I missing something. 

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @John Ellis 

    Income, crime rate, rent, square footage, schools, owner occupancy rate and overall tenant quality are the major factors I consider. Some people place a lot of emphasis on age of the homes but I think that's less important. You can have some old properties in very good, mature neighborhoods. For me it all comes down to what kind of tenant can you get in the area. No matter how good your property manager is, they can't get good tenants to live in crime invested neighborhoods.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @John Ellis It is also the eye test.  You can drive neighborhoods and see struggle.  Struggle, lack of jobs, no access to transportation, no amenities - these are all signs of struggle.  Boarded up properties, abandoned lots, cars on blog, gang tags.  Each of those things can happen in different neighborhoods, but they are extremely prevalent in some and those are ones we seek to avoid.  Remember, these are not investments for us (you) - these are for your clients and with that comes a higher level of responsibility.  So we avoid areas where the properties themselves will struggle to produce consistently.

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 575 posts · 496 votes
    11y

    Here are a few things that I wouldn't do...   things that sound tempting, but IMO cause problems:  

    1.  Out source property management - PM is way to important to let some one else take it over and potentially mess something up.  If something does go wrong, the client wants answers and all they get is finger pointing...  no bueno.    

    2.  Out source marketing and sales -  Same thing.  finger pointing.  Plus you have additional fee to pay, sometimes 5, 10, 15K even!...   driving returns down for your investor and making your job more difficult.  

    I think these 2 things need to be 100% in sync with each other.  If there are discrepancies clients tend to feel uneasy and decide not to re-invest.   

  • Alex CraigBusiness Member
    Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @John Ellis 

    Coming in a little late, but here are a few items that I think have not been already said in this thread.

    1) Don't be a "me too" -- have something unique to offer.  There has to be a reason of why people come to you.  Just because you say you do it better is not enough.  Everyone says that.

    2) Own rental property yourself to establish credibility that you believe in what you are selling.  Imagine going to a Portfolio Manager managing your money and them tell you they do not own any securities or do not invest at all.  We built our business on the mistakes we learned as local landlords ourselves.  I can share my own personal experiences to explain why we do things a certain way.

    3) Use technology in your PM company to have the best communication of any other PM.  I can't stress transparency enough when it comes to PM.  You can't communicate enough to your out of state investors.  Mistakes will be made as a PM--no one is perfect, but investors are more tolerable when you over communicate.

    4) Be accessible during the sales process. Answer emails quickly and return calls promptly.  A individual buying out of state is taking a leap of faith and need hand holding, some more then others.  Keep in mind most individuals have jobs during the day and the best time for them to talk is after hours and weekends.

    5) Be tolerant of investors who need over the top hand holdings.  Some investors have saved up thousands of dollars to buy a investment home and will be nervous and over analyze.  In a sense, you are their financial advisor.

    6) Do what you say and stand by your product, but as @Chris Clothier 

     said, do not over guarantee to get a sale.  Especially from the tenant side.  I tell my investors, I will guarantee we place a tenant based on our underwriting guidelines, but I can't guarantee that the tenant situation will not go bad down the road or even soon after tenant placement.  You are placing people in your homes.  People get divorced, lose their jobs, lose loved ones, have mental breakdowns, get job transfers, get married, etc (all of which has happened to me).  Those life situations are not your fault and you should not have to take a financial hit.  Like Chris said, you have to be profitable to offer top services. We offer a 90 day warranty after tenant placement within the 4 walls of the home and 180 day on HVAC.  Typically after a renovation, buyer property inspection and tenant move in--90 days is enough to catch anything missed during the renovation.  But you have to be careful of what you include within that 90 days.  Certain things such as acts of God, vandalism, tenant negligence, etc would not be tied back to your renovation and you should not be held liable.

    7) Even though Chris hit on this, but I want to stress it.  It is important to offer a outstanding product that is a good deal and where you make money.  More then likely, you will be personal liable for the debt on the properties you are selling.  Keep in mind the risk that comes with that.  At any given time, I may have out $2,000,000 in loans to banks, friends and family.  To make a couple thousand dollars on that type of risk is not worth it.  I will go ahead and disclose that I do not have $2,000,000 to make everyone whole if the market tanked like it did in 2008 to 2010.  The amount of risk a turnkey provider takes is huge.  Make it worth your time to be able to make a profit, but still give your investor a good deal. When you make a profit, you can staff better, hire higher quality people, which will serve your investors better.  Crappy employees are toxic to your business.

    8) Have fun--this is a fun business and you will meet great people from around the world.

    9) Understand the responsibility you have to the investors you sell too.  These purchases are often times part of a investors retirement plan, supplemental income, etc.  Think of yourself as their money manager, but instead of managing their money, you are managing their real estate assets.

  • Investor · Fremont, CA · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    I just wanted to say this is a great thread...

    I think the turnkey thing can be a huge plus for everyone when done right. It can help provide a way out of a draining asset for whoever needs out (be it the city/county, bank, or private owner), quality investment for passive investors, good homes for renters, work for the community (construction, marketing, PM, handyman), profits for the initial investor/rehaber, and help to keep neighborhoods clean, with property taxes being paid too. With all these pluses how could it go so wrong so often?

    I think a lot of it has to do with people not quite thinking it all the way through. Sometimes the turnkey company just thinks they're giving the customer what they want, but they're forgetting that people often don't really know what they want. While the customer gets wrapped up in profits and doesn't pay attention to the glaring expenses to come from a lipstick rehab. Use your expertise in the field to do things as you know they should be done and the clients will come around. Take the time to walk the new clients through the process and explain the reasons for the slightly higher cost of your product, if they end up having to be higher. If there's value in it the smart investors will see it. Plus over time your costs should be able to come down, so it may be best to expect slightly lower returns for yourself early on to help you grow. Just don't skimp on the foundation, making sure that the bones and guts are top priority.

    As for any business, this would be a tough endeavor, but I really like the idea of it. I'll be looking for those of you that have posted here as I build my portfolio. 

    Best of luck,

    Max Balesteri

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Chris Clothier 

    I would like to add my perspective as one of the larger HML in the mid west prior to the crash.. I did over 2k loans from GA to IL I did not fund your buys but I had 3 or 4 other Memphis TK guys and about 20 other companies that I funded in the day. And remember we were all learning back then, it was before you started your company or right about the same time you started I started funding TK in 2002 in Detroit.

    1. PM became a necessity..if the TK operator was going to make it long term.. there is no doubt about that... it was a necessary evil.. There is one company that you and I both know that tried to bring it in house sent it back out brought it back in and then finally folded their tent.. just could not get over the PM issues.

    2. Asset class's  this one everyone learned the hard way... Chris you mention it were you decided to move out of the low end stuff.  well most guys that made it through made that decision, there is just no way TK or remote ownership with PM will work long term for any investor in the lower end properties.. I can categorically say that many of our clients that bought these homes before we all realized how difficult they were and before we pulled out, lost them to foreclosure or walked away from them.. So as companies we needed to distance our selves from that asset class and we felt bad for those we loaned to or sold to that lost it all but it was a learning curve for everyone.  /Todays better TK guys like many on BP learned this lesson and have repositioned themselves accordingly.  But you still have numerous conversations on BP of the sub 30k houses and how great they are... But again and anyone who has read my post knows I am anti sub 30k by and large.. but people still buy them sell them and out of area folks still think somehow they will make them work. Again those assets in my humble opinion are only appropriate for locals that are there and understand the risks. With the exception of small sub markets and smaller towns in the major metro areas these assets are in the Hood as Chris denotes.

    3. Marketing this  is a big one. It takes  a special company that is vertically integrated like Memphis invest.. I would venture to guess a company of MI stature spends more money on advertising than most TK companies make .. The smaller turn key guys can only get about half way there and need to rely on Marketing agents.. And some marketing agents are really brutal wanting as Engelo said 5 to 15k a deal.. I know one in AU that was 10k flat fee plus they charged their client 5k for the privilege of looking at their super secret only they have inventory .. This drives the price up radically to the end buyer.. Plus many of the marketing folks are just that marketing have no expertise per se really are only hired guns.. there are many here on BP.. but its a free world just like RE brokers make fee's these people do also..

    at the end of the day this Turn Key model is an animal all itself and is endemic to the Midwest .. YOu don't have this on the west coast or upper East coast it really only works in markets that are 150k and under by and large.. because rent to price ratios must hit at least an 8  to 10% net.. other wise why buy one.. as we know most mid west properties are about cash flow not appreciation. I know for one I have made a ton of money I the space for me and my investors... I just want to see people succeed it makes no sense to sell these assets only to have the honest hard working investor lose their hard earned money.

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Ellis:

    @Chris Clothier When you made the switch to better neighborhoods how did you identify an A, B, C neighborhood. @Mike D'Arrigo same for you what is your criteria for determining what a neighborhood is. I thought of a few things: Per Capita Income, Crime Rate, Appreciation am I missing something. 

    Hey John,

    Check out a blog I wrote for BP a while back.

    Just a perception on the different asset classes.

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/06/28/abcs-real-estate-asset-classes/

    I hope you find it useful.

    Thanks

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Mentor, OH · Member since 2011 · 121 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    @Engelo Rumora Thanks for the redirect that was a simple but yet good description of the types of neighborhoods. I liked that it said to keep it simple it is either an A, B or C property. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Mentor, OH · Member since 2011 · 121 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    Ok so after all the post I want to say thank you to everyone who has given their insight. Here is my plan for the upcoming 6 months. My goal is to launch the turnkey company July 1st 2015.

    December-February: 

    1. Find a broker who will let me build an in house property management company. 

    2. Study neighborhoods that will fit an A and B description. Become an expert in those neighborhoods including finding the neighborhoods within the neighborhoods as I will put it. My focus will only be on A and B properties.

    3. Learn, Educate and Research more about property management, study successful business models and current companies in my market. Find those specific things that will make me different then the rest. Besides Quality I want to offer a more advanced way of property management. I want to offer more then just a rental guarantee. My goals are to offer services that investors do not know they need until the issue comes up. I will be a proactive not reactive company.

    4. Get my Real Estate License

    5. Begin looking for potential properties

    March-May:

    1. Begin creating marketing avenues. After a clear understand of the type of company I will be offering I can effectively begin marketing. I will do this in house. 

    2. I will hire a person who I can train and has the same beliefs as me in property management. That person will be in charge of property management portion of the company.

    3. I will hire a person to handle all marketing including promoting the Turnkey company, marketing for future homes, etc. I do not have these specific job descriptions as this will come from the research from above. (This might be me at first) 

    4. Locate, Buy and Rehab and Rent three homes. Begin managing these homes under the system that set in place.  

    June-July

    1. Continue managing properties and making sure systems are working tweaking and handling the any issues. Basically seeing how the process is working. 

    2. Continue marketing. Developing clear plans for getting new properties, attracting new investors, and also looking for creative ways to enhance the investor experience.

    3. Hire 1 office staff member to handle all incoming calls, paper work, things I am not thinking of. 

    4. July 1st, 2015 Launch the total Turnkey operation. Begin offering the first 3 homes. 

    This will be the part where I see if the whole thing works. I think after reading everything I came to the conclusion that I must first build the process, next get the right people, finally unveil the finished product. If set up right from a product and marketing stand point the first three should be sold quickly. From there I will make my next move. At this point I have to first make myself believe that I can not do everything by myself. This will be hard. Next I have to convince the right person to help me. (Next to the broker I think this will be my next most important thing). 

    What do you guys think? 

    Also in order to be transparent I will blog about each step. I have no idea how to blog or such so that will be my first step. I want investors to feel part of the process and know that this is a long term commitment and something that took months of planning not something I just jumped right into. 

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Ellis:

    @Engelo Rumora Thanks for the redirect that was a simple but yet good description of the types of neighborhoods. I liked that it said to keep it simple it is either an A, B or C property. 

    Pleasure John,

    Thanks and have a great day

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.