I had a mobile home and we had to remove some decorations from the ceiling, not realizing that was what was holding the ceiling up, the whole living room ceiling collapsed.
@Andrew Syrios after those I was reminded of another BAD rehab. The agent took us through & the toilet was similar to the one you had 3 steps up into a 1/2 bath then the toilet sat another step up. The sink was outside at the base of the first steps & it literally drained out under the back steps near the man door. In the same room it became obvious that the NEW living room was once a garage. The entire garage door & mechanism was still up in the ceiling. But they did cover most of it with new drywall & threw insulation batts up on top of the garage door.
I only wish I had a phone that took pics back in those days.
That sounds like some custom plumbing right there!
From my experience: My partner and I paid a landscaper up front for the trees/shrubs/mulch he needed for us to plant and we never got them. We should have realized that if his "business" could not afford to front the cost of the trees for 3 days, we probably should not have handed him a check. The money back we would have gotten back was just not worth the cost of the chase.
Make sure your initial payment is not finishing up the last job that they did not complete.
Don't ever pay more than 50% up front. - If its "for materials," simply respond with "I will purchase them."
Unless you have a handyman who you trust and know, true professionals are the way to go.
@Susan K. like the tenant we had that kept flushing cat litter down the toilet. She paid for that one & it had to be power washed out of the basement drains.
Not the worst thing in the world, but funny nonetheless. I was putting up a deck over a concrete pad out back of a flip house. The engineer called for 3 foot footings, so I had to cut the concrete and dig down to pour the footings. I tried to cut the concrete but it was super thick. I dug down to see that the pad had a 3 foot frost footing. I called the engineer and he said "so you're trying to find a way to cut out a 3 foot footing so you can install a 3 foot footing?" Foot in mouth that day.
turning the water on at the main in the basement as a pipe was being cut into on the 2nd floor.
Reminds me of another one.
We were redoing the plumbing in a friends old home he had stripped to the studs. The toilet was on the 2nd floor & the cast iron waste pipe was cut just below the flange & was just waiting for a new PVC lateral & hookup to the basement.
Everyone knew the toilet was off limits. So we're in the basement taking out the massive old cast iron pipes & hear the owners wife come into the building. She literally runs up the stairs & yep used the toilet. The flush ended up all over the living room floor, she quickly left & we never saw her there again.
I once had to let hubby learn the hard way that you get what you pay for. Had quotes of 1100 and 1200 to install tile in a shower and some guy quoting 400. I wanted to go with 1100 guy, but hubby wanted to use 400 and refused to listen. So 400 guy comes with a hand held tile cutter as his only tool. He spends the day in my master bathroom and when finished the tile looks like crap because he used tile nippers to cut all the tiles. While we were ordering new tiles, the ceiling developed a wet spot below where the shower sits, and we learned that he had knocked a hole in a pipe and just closed it up... So his $700 savings ended up costing $1000 in new tile, $1100 for installation, $500 for plumbing repair and $1000 for the ceiling to be repainted. And that isnt even mentioning that someone went through my underwear drawer and left grout finger prints on my undies.
My wife just texted me asking why the workers busted a hole through the ceiling instead of going into the attic to install insulation. It is because I picked a smooth talking contractor who I overpaid upfront. It isn't the end of the world but I won't ever use these guys again.
Oh my goodness!! It's easy to imagine the damage they might have done if your wife had not caught them! Unbelievable.
Felt like a fail when I started stripping the shingles off my live-in duplex and counted four layers, lol. You don't need to get a roofing permit in my town, the reasoning being that it isn't abused as much in my A neighborhood like it would be elsewhere, and if it is abused, people have the money to fix.
Wow. Reading through all 3 pages of this thread has been a real education as I prepare to buy my first rental property. To summarize, here are some of my key takeaways:
- Popcorn ceilings are not worth the hassle of removing yourself. Hire it out.
- Check Valves are a good thing
- Don't hire cheap, unlicensed contractors
- When you hire help, lock up your tools/supplies
- Security cameras and alarm systems are probably a good idea
- Micromanage your contractors. Watch them closely or you will pay
- Never pay for work up-front
I will try to remember all of these and not repeat them!
I am pretty good. But someone stole a bunch of siding, which costed thousands. I renovated in a suburb that was hostile to me - and blew the time budget by at least 4 months. And this year, I lost money on a renovation-flip. That's rare for me. The submarket was flooded with properties for sale and the buyers became very picky.
I also had a contractor who stole once. But no total disasters for me.
I am currently 1 month past due and $20k over budget on my first flip - it's been a trying and stressful period, but at this point, me and my partners are just eager to get out of the deal. Managing a flip with a crew from 2,500 miles away (SF to Cincinnati) is not for the feint of heart. It takes constant follow up, diligence and overall intestinal fortitude, let alone a lot of faith in a stranger with your Home Depot account.
The numbers are still in flux, as we're not done yet, but what was a $80k purchase with a $65k rehab has quickly swelled to a $85k rehab. What advice do the others in the forum have for out-of-state investors when it comes to managing the daily renovation processes? That's been the hardest part for me.
We will still make money, so it's not a complete fail (and perhaps a misdirected post) but I'm curious what others have done in this situation. The Home Depot costs are piling up, and the completion date is being pushed out. What are your thoughts?
Stephen do you have any details on how the rehab went so much over budget? Was it materials or labor? I am like you doing rehabs from remote locations. My advise is to have someone you pay locally that can check in on rehabs for you and send pictures. I also would not do one on a property sight unseen. Something else is also to build a team, don't use all the subs that a contractor recommend have your own you test out so you have more control in case something goes wrong and you need to boot someone. I personally am about 400 miles away but I make the drive a couple times a month right now until I can get a team going. I would recommend installing a nest camera or two around the house for two reasons. For one to keep an eye on the labor make sure they are actually working on the job and not showing up an hour or two a day and leaving for other jobs. Also to make sure your materials are not walking away. If youre remote chances are you could have a dishonest contractor that is pocketing materials. My rule for rehabs have always been that I get quoted labor only costs and then I buy materials as needed in stages depending on the job. This way I can track my costs, keep contractors from stealing materials, and finally get points on my credit card for free vacations.
Absolutely hands down spending double on a Reno than I wanted too and not getting an actual bid to work off of that way I could hold them to it. Learned a lot that first Construction job!
And what @Joseph Berhane said -- except a couple of the low cost contractors I used actually DID work out, but on a limited scope and it was hard on the nerves.
Either get a GC to manage it like a pro, or parcel it out in bits to specialists. Vet them properly, don't skip over that -- this was my big mistake. The low cost guys should be referred by somebody.
Don't let them do all the stuff they ask to do. And don't ask them to do stuff they aren't good at. They won't tell you what they can't do well, and that's the challenge. You find out later, when X & Y are finished and progressing nicely, but you have been asking them to get Z done first -- but they don't. They keep blasting away at X & Y, because that is what they are good at. You tell them to finish Z by the end of the week, they don't. Some excuse, whatever. This should be telling you that they aren't comfortable with Z, and that Z isn't getting done, at least not by them. So they are hustling to finish X & Y before you fire them and run them off.
I had a contractor estimate our kitchen to renovate and priced us $40-50k..so I decided to do it myself with my husband.Instead of changing the kitchen cabinets coz they look like we're in the 80's we painted them all white.The backsplash is the problem..I thought I could handle it but the material didn't stick that long in the wall..everyday I would see pieces falling apart!Now I'm waiting for a contractor to redo our disastrous backsplash 🙁
@Brian Washburn, one more item to your list: make sure all rough works (electrical, plumbing, etc.) should be inspected before your contractor closed off walls with finish materials (drywall, siding, stucco, etc,)
Didn’t check if we would have to get new electric service +4000
Didn’t check if we would have to get new water service +5000
Crushed sewer line while working +5000
If those were points I would have been winning. :/
I don't know if it was my worst but my number 1 contractor of 9 years took off with the last payment towards the end of the project and I had to complete the job with his cousin. Luckily I paid him as certain items on the spreadsheet was checked off and I always add a 10% contingency to my repair cost. I don't believe in wasting my time in small court because... been there and wastes a lot of emotional and physical time for nothing.
Wow. Reading through all 3 pages of this thread has been a real education as I prepare to buy my first rental property. To summarize, here are some of my key takeaways:
- Popcorn ceilings are not worth the hassle of removing yourself. Hire
Popcorn is ridiculously easy to remove. Spray it wet with water, give it a few minutes to soak in, and scrape off.
It's incredibly messy so only do it in an empty room, but I saw a DIYer video on YouTube where guy attached a wet vac to his scraper and solved that problem too.
@Stephen Herbert aligning payment to finished project. finished = sold. thats today's experiment.
$110k purchase
$20k my pref return
$60k contractor sweat equity
============
$190k basis
$239k listed on Merrillville IN MLS
50/50 rev share with contractor above 190k.
I'm doing similar in Florida while living in Marin. we should meet for coffee.
