Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
Looking at a duplex listed for $106k to BRRRR. We think it could maybe appraise around $130k ARV. It's in a B neighborhood. They have 90's oak cabinets with off-white Formica countertops. One thought is we don't want to paint because of the wear & tear of painting & upkeep with renters. (Repainting May Be required every time someone moves out). BUT when looking to BRRRR does painting them give a GREAT return on investment? We don't want to overdo this duplex for the area & I really don't want to repaint them every few years. Plus if we paint cabinets then we may need to replace the counters since they have wear & tear. THOUGHTS?
I've done both paint and restaining, depends on the house. Both have held up well so far, though I'm sure the white ones will stain over time and I'll have to repaint in the future, which is fine with me.
Here's some before and afters...both houses are in B neighborhoods. I spent about $600 on paint, new hardware, backsplash tile and a sheet of new Formica for the counter for this one...
And this is my cheapo house I bought for $38K, I sanded and restained the cabinets with gel stain and two coats of poly. New hardware, backsplash and sheet of granite-looking Formica - I spent about $275 here. If the floors and cabinets look splotchy and weird, it's because I had just mopped and wiped everything down. And my phone takes the worst pictures, lol.
@Valerie Smith With less than a $24K upside more like $20K after improvements, down unit time vacancy and refinance costs I think you should look for a property with more upside. A rule of thumb is buy at 70% of ARV which would be about 91,000 based on your comps....a refinance on 20,000 will hardly be noticeable. With that said maybe this isn't a BRRR strategy and you just buy to build some equity and hold it to gain some experience and build your portfolio. Not trying to talk you out of buying just making sure you realize that sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking a deal is a deal when in fact it's just a slightly lower than market price. Either way I wish you luck!
Thank you! I may look into seeing if I can get it for a lower price or try to find other financing options for a regular buy & hold. I think the cash flow would be good and probably meet the $200 (per door) cash flow....from my understanding.
I was a painting contractor for 10 years. The range in quality on a cabinet job is very large and priced accordingly. (same set of cabinets could be anywhere from 2-10k depending on spec). On a rental I would spec the following: heavy degrease, light scuff sand (don't blow through to raw wood) , 2 coats of SW pro industrial enamel (used to be Frazee arothane). Paint will 100% adhere to water or oil based existing coatings without primer. It melts like oil and brushes excellent with a nice open time for the DIY'er. Preparation and hardness of the enamel (paint) used are very important. if your contractor uses something like Behr interior semi gloss the paint is so soft that the cabinets will stick and fail much sooner.
Follow this advice ^^ you can paint cabinets but if you don't prep and use the right paint, you will have nothing but problems. The enamel should be easy to clean and since it is paint, easy to repair damage. Damage to stained wood can be very difficult to repair and match. I fight that all the time with doors in rental properties.
For cabinets, I have used white epoxy appliance paint (rustoleum, I believe) over a Kilz interior oil-based primer. This was on lightly-sanded wood cabinets, a 4" roller for the main sections/brush for the edges, with light sanding between coats. It came out great and was originally recommended to me by a long-time handyman. The paint cures extremely hard and is easy to clean off.
@Dawn P. So how do you put this formica stuff in ? I keep putting granite on mine because i get a good deal and they put the sink in for me. But i see at home depot the laminate stuff is really cheap. I need to learn how install this myself.
If the cabinets are dirty but in good condition otherwise is when I will paint them otherwise I'll just replace them. If they're not real wood then I'll clean them as much as possible instead or use appliance spray paint. I'll get a $10 quart of gloss or semi gloss paint and a $1 brush from dollartree and that is usually all the supplies I'll need besides a wet rag to clean up drips. If you use latex paint then you will see the brush strokes and it might take more than one coat. Oil-based paint will flake more over time if you don't prepare it properly but leaves less brush strokes and is usually one coat coverage. Good to do a once over after it's done to clean up dribbles. It is tough not to get it on the hinges and knobs so I usually at least remove knobs first.
Hey I am painting contractor and have lots of experience with this. if you paint the cabinets, they will chip and scratch over time. (which may not affect you if your not keeping it long term). However, I did find a gel stain product which I used on oak cabinets like the ones your referring to. It came out beautiful and was 100% absolutely resistant to any scratches and i'm confident that it will last as long as the cabinets do. You can get it off amazon. Heres the link:
I haven't read all the posts of course, its a long thread. SO not sure if someone else already said what I thing:
Applying some finish to original cabinets is way cheaper than replacing them if the structural bones of the cabinets are fairly in good condition.
If you repaint them, make sure to do it properly (sand them down some so primer will stick, paint, and then finish them with some protective coating). By applying the protective coating, they could be easily cleaned out without damaging the paint, so you don't have to paint them every two-three years.
We have a duplex and prepped and painted the cabinets in both kitchens. While it was a bit time consuming it saved a ton of money and makes the kitchens look like new. The only thing I'd recommend is to removal all the hardware but make sure they stay matched up, ruff them up with sandpaper, clean them and do the first coat with bonding cabinet paint ( cure time is 24+ hours/ coat) then top with semi gloss.
I've painted cabinets in three homes. I highly recommend the Sherwin Williams paints and primer! Lasts and no chips at all, wipes clean. I have some in the house and can look at exact brand if you want.
@Valerie Smith yeah it’s always a good idea to lightly sand all the faces and then wipe them off with a rag. It’s going to give you a nice solid color finish while still allowing the grains of the wood to come through. I’ll see if I can find some pictures and message them to you.
Why not give your renters the option to paint the cabinets themselves on their dime? Save you money, they get a color they like, win-win. Obviously if they paint it pink glitter, then you'll have to repaint, but your first one would be free! Just a thought.
Yep, paint is the way to go. Just make sure you put the time in to do it right - sand, prime, etc. And definitely get a good quality semi-gloss paint for cabinets.
I've done the same look on a couple properties with outdated cabinets. I always do white paint, new brushed nickel hardware, and white subway tile with grey grout. It's timeless, clean, and one of the best ways to transform a kitchen for a couple hundred bucks.
@Brian Kelch that's a good idea on paper, but there's zero chance they'll do the job right and you'll have to strip all the paint off once it starts peeling off a year later. Plus having an attractive kitchen will attract more good tenants!
Another very important tip when painting cabinets is to round off any sharp edges. Scientifically, when paint is applied to a sharp edge, the law of surface tension pulls the coating to either side leaving an extremely thin/ non- existent coating on the sharp edge, often right where hands are placed. This is the starting point for many cabinet paint failures. Rounding over the edge allows for adequate paint millage.
Sherwin Williams Pro Classic Water Based Acrylic Alkyd, semi gloss- For White cabinets I recommend "7005 Pure White". I have sprayed with this and done the boxes by hand brush/roll and it does well!
Typical smaller 10 x 10 kitchen you probably won't use the whole gallon can. And will do 2-3 coats after primer. The waiting to dry in between (and light sand) is what is the most time consuming.
And if I have time after a few weeks I'll add a clear gloss over the top
But if you have no money/ low money or just wanna save money, it's a great option.
Top pic- Did it around the trim of the fireplace- before/after.
Next- "7005 white" and I was gutsy and did it over the cheap laminated type of cabinets. Turned out great and no problems.- added handles.
Next-Brown laminated type cabinet BEFORE I added the "7005 White"
Bottom the oak type cabinets I did it over- That was a huge kitchen and took me 3 weekends 44 cabs/drawers...
I enjoy DIY and these are from my "live in flips"
Ignore my hubby who is casually staying out of my way...lol.
Never any pulls on this property. It's actually a brand new house. lol. Only I am crazy enough to rip off the granite put on quartz, repaint builder grade cabs, add handles etc... on a house that no one has ever touched.
HAHAHAHA.
But what can I say, I am a wild child and I didn't like any of the houses in central FL (coming from selling my mega 4000 sq foot house in Southern Cali).....so just wanted to try a new build, rents here are double my mortgage or we can just sell in a few years (we do corporate moves and they basically cash us straight out no agent fees, closing costs, etc. and same on the other end when we buy a new home). Figure we keep doing it ever 2-3 years, avoid capital gains and pocket/invest all the cash. Buy a few rentals on the side.
@Kay Mckinley Mounting those pulls from scratch is tricky business. How do you manage it, with a jig? Looks lined up and centered right. Quite impressive.
I had no template- because being thrifty (Knowing I won't live here for more than 3 years), I just ordered them from Amazon and it didn't come with one. I also didn't know such a thing existed until the builder agent stopped by to check out my updates and as like "Holy smokes! Wow great job with the template" "Can I take pictures in here for prospects". Me: What template? The beauty of DIY, you're always learning something new.
I took a small leveler, painters tape, measuring tape, and a pen. Hand measured and leveled with the painters tape.... Biggest pain in the *** of all time.
I had a standard drill= which the tip broker after the first one...then I went to the little 99 buck dremel with drill/hole making bit tip. That baby packs a punch, just have to be careful on the speed with it.
I could only do 5 a day, it took that much brain energy.
I had the time on my hands though...I just kept thinking...If I can do a dissertation, these damn knobs aren't going to "win" over me.