Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
Looking at a duplex listed for $106k to BRRRR. We think it could maybe appraise around $130k ARV. It's in a B neighborhood. They have 90's oak cabinets with off-white Formica countertops. One thought is we don't want to paint because of the wear & tear of painting & upkeep with renters. (Repainting May Be required every time someone moves out). BUT when looking to BRRRR does painting them give a GREAT return on investment? We don't want to overdo this duplex for the area & I really don't want to repaint them every few years. Plus if we paint cabinets then we may need to replace the counters since they have wear & tear. THOUGHTS?
Rental Property Investor · Sumter, SC · Member since 2015 · 334 posts · 531 votes
7y
I've done both paint and restaining, depends on the house. Both have held up well so far, though I'm sure the white ones will stain over time and I'll have to repaint in the future, which is fine with me.
Here's some before and afters...both houses are in B neighborhoods. I spent about $600 on paint, new hardware, backsplash tile and a sheet of new Formica for the counter for this one...
And this is my cheapo house I bought for $38K, I sanded and restained the cabinets with gel stain and two coats of poly. New hardware, backsplash and sheet of granite-looking Formica - I spent about $275 here. If the floors and cabinets look splotchy and weird, it's because I had just mopped and wiped everything down. And my phone takes the worst pictures, lol.
Paint is one of the cheapest and most effective ways of updating a property and has a great ROI since paint is cheap and you can do it yourself if you know what you're doing. I'd paint in semi-gloss as it is resistant to most stains and cleans pretty easily. I'd expect that most renters in a B area would take care of a rental to the point of not having to repaint after every turnover.
As for the counters, formica and laminate counters are not a huge expense and they have some pretty decent ones that look like granite and marble.
Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
7y
@Bob Okenwa wow thanks for your speedy response. Do you have thoughts on re-staining to a more modern color instead of painting...does that tend to hold up better in the long run and have a good ROI as well?
Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
I'd say painting is a much better option, and with a few exceptions, wood cabinets aren't really the style of the day. I've had cabinets painted for a BRRRR several times. Doing one right now, as a matter of fact. Typically you don't have to repaint the cabinets with every vacancy, you should be able to do some touch up and be good to go. I've found some paint and new hardware, you can have a kitchen that goes from looking awful to quite nice for a few hundred bucks.
I agree with @Corby Goade and say painting is a better option. At the end of the day, it is a rental and all you really need is a modern paint color(white or gray) and some decent hardware (Amazon or eBay for cheapest prices) and you're good to go in most instances.
Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
I agree with everyone to paint the house. It's a no brainer. I'd like to discuss is the BRRRR numbers. With an ARV of $130k and purchase price of lets say $95k, when you factor in the rehab and LTV will it work? You leaving money in the deal?
Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
7y
@Jaron Walling this would be our first BRRRR attempt. I'm guessing at the ARV. It's hard to find ARV comps. I can only find current condition comps. I feel $106k is a good price (maybe slightly underpriced). We will definitely try to y'all him down some or negotiate some rehab into the price. I heard one podcast that mentioned paying full price but having the seller present a check to the flooring company at closing instead of just negotiating a lower selling price. That way you have more cash on hand to do Reno instead of saving $ spread out over 30 years on mortgage.
Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
7y
@Jaron Walling
And yes, any advice is welcome of good numbers. Since this is our first, I'm unsure of the best bang for the buck and especially ARV. That makes me nervous. We would likely be doing private money and try to do Reno out of pocket then refinance. I'd love to be able to pull money out of the deal. Just doing his makes me nervous bc what happens if we CANT refinance because it doesn't appraise?
I'd go for paint. Get the right paint which may cost a bit more up front, but will save you in the long run. Go to a paint store where they know what they are doing and tell them you need it for kitchen cabinets. Preparation is also key, so make sure you sand and prep the cabinets before you paint them.
Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Valerie Smith Before you submit that offer I would talk to an experienced agent or speak with local investors to determine that ARV. If the appraisal comes back low your money is stuck.
Rental Property Investor · Sumter, SC · Member since 2015 · 334 posts · 531 votes
7y
I've done both paint and restaining, depends on the house. Both have held up well so far, though I'm sure the white ones will stain over time and I'll have to repaint in the future, which is fine with me.
Here's some before and afters...both houses are in B neighborhoods. I spent about $600 on paint, new hardware, backsplash tile and a sheet of new Formica for the counter for this one...
And this is my cheapo house I bought for $38K, I sanded and restained the cabinets with gel stain and two coats of poly. New hardware, backsplash and sheet of granite-looking Formica - I spent about $275 here. If the floors and cabinets look splotchy and weird, it's because I had just mopped and wiped everything down. And my phone takes the worst pictures, lol.
Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
7y
@Dawn P. That’s awesome. I wish I were that handy. Could probably paint the cabinets but doing the sink cutouts for countertops and cutting and installing tile would not be in my skill set! Hmm I wonder if they will cut the out for you when you order at Lowe’s for example.
Use Chalk paint it’s a no sanding or priming just clean them really good with a degreased and paint away. It’s a water based paint and use a water based sealer. Should hold up for several years. We use it all the time on kitchen cabinets. If you want to know recommend brand dm me.
Investor · Sewell, NJ · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 48 votes
7y
@Valerie Smith
Painting will work fine with rentals. Just have someone do it who knows what they’re doing. I personally would recommend putting in some cheap granite while you’re at it.
Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes
7y
@Valerie Smith B neighborhood tenants will probably take care of the cabinets enough to not have to repaint every turnover, assuming it's done correctly. If you just throw some paint without cleaning, sanding, or any prep work, the paint will not last nearly as long.
WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
forget about the paint... this does not look like BRRRR material. I'd say this has to be mid-high $80s to be worthy of that title (estimating rehab at modest $10k). Do not fall in love with this house (or any house, for that matter).
Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 50 votes
7y
I was a painting contractor for 10 years. The range in quality on a cabinet job is very large and priced accordingly. (same set of cabinets could be anywhere from 2-10k depending on spec). On a rental I would spec the following: heavy degrease, light scuff sand (don't blow through to raw wood) , 2 coats of SW pro industrial enamel (used to be Frazee arothane). Paint will 100% adhere to water or oil based existing coatings without primer. It melts like oil and brushes excellent with a nice open time for the DIY'er. Preparation and hardness of the enamel (paint) used are very important. if your contractor uses something like Behr interior semi gloss the paint is so soft that the cabinets will stick and fail much sooner.
Rental Property Investor · Fernandina, FL · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 18 votes
7y
@Victor S. Were going to have to make sure with a low budget. Definitely under $10k because we just don’t have the funds. If we can get away with say $5k. That would be what we could spend. We need to get most bang for our buck with the cash we have on hand or can save in the next couple months. So you think $85k with 10k in repairs?
Real Estate Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 543 posts · 474 votes
7y
@Valerie Smith Paint with a decent enamel, inexpensive new hardware and if the countertops are not damaged look at the resurfacing pint sold at places like Home Depot. Really inexpensive and looks great. The kitchen will look great. And be sure to keep a supply of the enamel for future touch ups. I always make sure to have extra paint/tiles/grout from any job for future repairs.