My next hold deal? Huge Duplex in Provo, Utah

My next hold deal? Huge Duplex in Provo, Utah

Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes

I recently had an owner of a duplex approach me (because I own a rental property in the neighborhood) to see if I wanted to purchase his property.  The asking price (without agents) is $385k.  Each unit of the duplex has 6 bed & 4 baths, has a two car garage, and has about 2400 sf.  The units rent for about $1800/mo each (and both are occupied) with utilities included (utilities are about $700/mo for everything - I would probably want to change this so tenants pay their own utilities - Electric & Gas are metered desperately).  The owner isn't willing to do seller financing.  My loan guy said I could get a loan with 25% down at 4.25-4.375% 30 yr and have a monthly payment around $1700/mo.  So the cash flow could be potentially pretty good.

Provo is a good area with two nearby colleges.  In my duplex, one side is rented by students and the other side by a non-student family on Section 8 Housing.  Provo does enforce zoning to three unrelated individuals per unit, but enforcement usually only starts with a complaint from a neighbor.  The home was originally built with four units but the city said there wasn't enough parking (so each 5bd unit basically has it's own connected 1bd mother-in-law apartment with kitchen and everything).

Here are a list of my concerns: 1) Deferred maintenance  (a lot of vinyl flooring in bad condition, original roof may need to be replaced in the next 5 years, etc...).  2) Fewer units make vacancies, or a bad tenant causing damage very costly. 3) I don't have the cash for the down - I either need to find a partner or sell or refinance an existing property.

To address some of these concerns: 1) I have a handyman I've used for years who could hammer these things out on a schedule that I could afford.  2) I've never had an issue keeping my unit occupied (I've even had the same tenants in one unit for over 6 years).  3) I've never partnered, but I'm willing to do so now if I can find the right person.

Please share your advice!  Love BP and it's awesome members who are so willing to share.

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Developer/Broker · Spanish Fork, UT · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 41 votes
10y

@Tim Mellor, this sounds like a decent deal. It doesn't quite meet the 1% guideline, but seems like it'd produce cash flow, which is great. Sounds like it may be a little older property (I'm not sure of the age), maybe something that was built before Provo started enforcing all the current rules. It seems like you've analyzed the deal and have solutions for most of the issues. One creative thing that I've done with a single family rental in Provo is rent it to two related families. Allow me to explain... it's a single family home that used to be a "duplex". It wasn't a legal duplex and Provo enforced the rules before I came into the picture. When I got involved, the property was vacant and didn't make much sense to just rent it to one family. So we ended up finding two sisters (one was married and had a family of her own, the other sister was single and wanted her own space). The one sister's husband and the single sister were attending school at BYU and each family couldn't afford much for rent. So we were allowed to rent the home to them as ONE family (because the sisters were blood related). This allowed us to produce a nice cash flow off of the property and allowed each sister to have her own unit. This was tricky and a creative way to make the property work. It may work in your situation with each of the units having the "connected 1bd mother-in-law apartment with kitchen". Just a thought. I wish you the best of luck with this one!!

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  • Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    When you say college students, are these BYU students? When I was a student at BYU my dad was looking into properties around campus, but seemed like the having to become BYU approved housing so that single students could live in it was a bit of a pain.

    I also lived in several places south of campus where we were breaking the zoning rules :) Although, I have heard horror stories of friends of friends who were reported to the city.

  • Developer/Broker · Spanish Fork, UT · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 41 votes
    10y

    @Tim Mellor, this sounds like a decent deal. It doesn't quite meet the 1% guideline, but seems like it'd produce cash flow, which is great. Sounds like it may be a little older property (I'm not sure of the age), maybe something that was built before Provo started enforcing all the current rules. It seems like you've analyzed the deal and have solutions for most of the issues. One creative thing that I've done with a single family rental in Provo is rent it to two related families. Allow me to explain... it's a single family home that used to be a "duplex". It wasn't a legal duplex and Provo enforced the rules before I came into the picture. When I got involved, the property was vacant and didn't make much sense to just rent it to one family. So we ended up finding two sisters (one was married and had a family of her own, the other sister was single and wanted her own space). The one sister's husband and the single sister were attending school at BYU and each family couldn't afford much for rent. So we were allowed to rent the home to them as ONE family (because the sisters were blood related). This allowed us to produce a nice cash flow off of the property and allowed each sister to have her own unit. This was tricky and a creative way to make the property work. It may work in your situation with each of the units having the "connected 1bd mother-in-law apartment with kitchen". Just a thought. I wish you the best of luck with this one!!

  • Developer/Broker · Spanish Fork, UT · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 41 votes
    10y

    @Jason Larsen, I don't believe that you have to become BYU approved to rent to students. I recall having involvement with some student housing that had a mixture of BYU and UVU students (back in my property management days). I believe one of the benefits of being BYU approved is being able to market to those BYU students that specifically look to live in approved housing. Good thoughts @Jason Larsen

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @Jason Larsen The house in question is currently rented to non-students.  My property has BYU graduate students in one unit (they don't have the same requirements as undergrads).  This area is outside of the BYU boundary so undergraduate students would need to get a waiver to live here.  Here is BYU's page on housing requirements: http://och.byu.edu/contracted.html

    @Brandon Rindlisbacher Thanks for the suggestion, for those who are creative it seems like there is always a way to make the deal work if it is worth the effort.  Before the current owner who has owned it for over a decade, the home was rented to all single BYU undergraduate students.  The home was built in the 90's, so I think it is mostly wear and tear from tenants.

  • Investor · Crystal, MN · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 277 votes
    10y

    @Tim Mellor

    There are a couple of numbers you left out.  What are the property taxes on the property, and what is your insurance cost.  What are the market rents for similar sized units, and are there garages?  I think it is best to assume the worst case scenario.  Let's say current rent is $1800.00 per unit.  Gross revenue, then is $3600.00.  Take away $700.00 in utilitiies, and your actual cost of the mortgage, which is $1951 (385K, 30 year am, 4.5% interest rage (I assume you use existing equity to come up with that 25% down).  Now you are at $949.00 monthly cash flow before property taxes and insurance.  Let's say those two equal $400.00 a month.  Your cash flow is now at $549.00 monthly, and that is before capex, vacancy, and repairs/maintenance.  If you use the same calculator as BP, Vacancy and Repairs are at least 5% each.  The two combined makes $360.00 per month.  Now your cash flow is down to $189.00.  

    Now, there is a way to sweeten this deal.  Negotiate with the seller to carry a 2nd mortage on the 25%, at 0%, or .25%, some very small number, with a 10 year baloon, or 5 year baloon.  Now your cash flow improves to $480.00.  You can do worse than $480.00

    I personally would pass on the deal.  If I expend $385K in cash, I would want over $1,000.00 minimum in cash flow.

  • UT · Member since 2013 · 164 posts · 55 votes
    10y

    @David Moore:

    You are not likely to get over $1k cash flow in this area for that price. $250/month/door in our market is doing very good. 

    @Tim Mellor:

    I see this as able to go 2 ways: there are not a lot of people looking to rent a 6 bedroom place, so it seems to me that you may go a LONG time looking for new tenants (unless you rent by the room/to singles or students), but when you find the right tenant they may stay a LONG time too (which is good, unless they are bad tenants). 

    When renting out something that large you tend to attract LARGE families and/or students/singles, both of which have the potential to put more than average wear and tear on the property. 

    Personally for about the same price I would prefer a 4 plex of 2 or 3 bedroom units which are quick and easy to rent and would be less risk, but that is just my preference. You are looking at something a little unique (in the size of units), and if that is the market you want to work then there may not be many of those deals out there, both for you to buy and/or for a tenant to rent, so it could be a nice little niche. You just have to decide what space you want to work in.

    The utilities do sound high to me, so you might have some opportunity there. I would bet they would go down if the tenants were paying them...

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @David Moore - Each unit has a two car garage.  Your analysis is helpful and your points are understood.  I think an owner carry second is a definite possibility.  Taxes and insurance are actually only $250/mo.

    @Mike Palmer - Good points!  As you know there are a lot of bigger size families here that could use that much space.  I have a family of six living in a five bedroom home and there is good demand for our size home in Provo area.  But I wouldn't be opposed to put students in either (3 students at $500 month or try 4 students at $400 and have them pay their own utilities.  I would make more than it currently makes doing the latter, but then I risk zoning enforcement.  Side by side four-plexes cost between $400-$500k in our area and probably only make $700-$900/unit, so I think there is less cash flow opportunity but also less risk going this route.  

    I was also encouraged to look into MACU's 90% down program for investments, so I'm looking into that and seeing if the numbers make sense with that loan.  The interest rate would be more like 4.75%

    Thanks for your thoughts!

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    I went ahead on this purchase and it just closed. We ended up bumping up the price to include sellers concessions and an agent commission. And it still ended up appraising for a decent amount more than purchase price. I realize that including the commission may be counter-intuitive financially since I'll now have to pay income tax on that amount, but it does allow me to get some instant cash that I can use to hold in reserves, perform repairs, or start paying down the HELOC I used for the down payment. I'm at a 4.5% 30 yr fixed with only 10% down. It doesn't quite get the 1% rule at only .8% but it really is decent for the Provo Utah market.

    I'm getting the tenants to move Electricity & Gas into their own names, and offered additional services to try to increase cash flow.  This definitely isn't a home run, but hopefully a stepping stone to even better deals in the future.

  • Handyman · Alpine, UT · Member since 2009 · 46 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    awesome, how did you end up financing this?

  • Steve OlsonPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Pleasant Grove UT and Hurst, TX · Member since 2014 · 128 posts · 63 votes
    10y

    @Tim Mellor, those numbers look like a homerun for Provo.  Nice work!

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @Steve Olson, thanks for the encouragement!  At some point maybe I'll invest out of state and try for higher returns.

    @John Williams I used Mountain America Credit Union.  You can only get two 10% down investor loans, so I'm still in the market for more deals.

  • Handyman · Alpine, UT · Member since 2009 · 46 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    Cool I keep seeing stuff about this MACU loan on here. What are the requirements and how was the loan process? Do they base the loan mostly on borrower or do they factor income from the property? 

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @John Williams These MACU loans are taking about 45 days to complete.  The process was pretty typical for loans I've done in the past, except I was actually asked to provide a Profit & Loss statement for the current year to date.  I think they wanted to see that my real estate income and expenses were comparable to previous years.  I think you also have to have a pretty decent credit score.  I gave them copies of the current leases on this property and I believe they did take those into account for qualifying purposes, but if you are a new investor/landlord they may not count the rental income.

  • Real Estate Agent · Highland, UT · Member since 2015 · 407 posts · 272 votes
    10y

    @John Williams I just had a client close one of these loans in 30 days. They used their home equity line of credit for the down payment that they also did with Mountain America at the same time. For them they were first time investors and bought a home that was already tenant occupied which I'm sure speed up the process. They gave MACU the rental contract which they were able to count towards income. 

    I have another buyer just about to start this process again! Awesome loan but hard to cash flow huge numbers because the interest rate is about a .5-1% higher and the origination costs are a bit more. It's a good way to get into the market with less money down as most lenders require the %20-%25 down.

  • Handyman · Alpine, UT · Member since 2009 · 46 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    Ok cool thanks for the info guys!

  • Tyler BondPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Utah County · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Tim Mellor I would be curious to see how this property is fairing for you years later. Could you give us an update?

  • Investor / Licensed Real Estate Agent · Provo, UT · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Tyler Bond, thanks for the question.  This home is actually doing really well.  We did a partial remodel on the home after the inherited tenants from one side moved out (cost around $50k and that unit sat empty for 3 months), but we were then able to charge $100 more per month in rent plus the new tenants pay their own utilities.  We still have the same inherited tenants in the other unit, and while their rent hasn't gone up much they are also paying their own utilities.  They are considering moving this year and we'll probably do the same thing on that unit.  Both units are currently rented to families (extended families to be more precise).  We haven't yet redone the roof, but we put in central air in both units.  

    The home has increased in value by approximately $150,000. I haven't refinanced or pulled any money out because my ideal DTI ratio on my portfolio is 50-75%. I have now used both of my MACU 90 loans, so I will look at refinancing at some point to free one of those up again. I hope to keep this property in my portfolio for the long term.

  • Tyler BondPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Utah County · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Tim Mellor thank you for the update. It is always encouraging to hear stories like this where it may not have been a clear home run at first, but now look at how well it's doing! 

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