My agent is not comfortable with my offers

Member since 2020 · 60 posts · 32 votes

Good evening fellows,

I'm currently in the process of buying my second property. I am using a VA loan and I am currently located in Virginia beach with the following search criteria: SFR 4/2 with a backyard ( garage is a bonus) , 1600+ sqft with a market time of 40+ days, minor repairs or modifications needed are welcome.

The modification and market time is , you guessed it, to be able to negotiate a discount from the original listing price.

The agent that I work with is the same one I used to purchase my first property. I really like him, but he doesnt feel comfortable writing offers that are discounted from the listing price. He Always finds a way to talk me out of it.

Have you experienced this before ? What are your thoughts ?

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Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

Let me see if I have the facts right here:

1 - You are making an offer for under the asking price
2 - Your agent doesn't want to make the offer
3 - If the offer were made, it could be accepted and you would get a property at a discount.
4 - If the offer were made, it could be turned down with a counter offer from the seller, or....you could make another offer higher than the first

I'm leaning towards dumping your agent. Your agent is supposed to be working for you, not against you. They can recommend you make a higher offer if they think someone else will, and they would get it instead of you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make the discounted offer if you think you want to...especially if you need the discount to make this a good deal. You base your offer on whether or no that offer will get the property, you make offers based on getting the deal. If you have to increase your offer to get the property, but then the deal isn't good, you don't want the property...you only want deals.

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Chris Mitkovski
Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 2 votes
3y
@Frank A Castro
I am currently in the process of buying my first house, the original asking price was $224,000 they dropped it to $215,000 I offered $205,000 and they took it. I had the inspection done and there were some minor issues but I asked for them to take another 16k off the price. My realtor did not want to put the offer in and was trying to tell me that was way too much to ask off, they ended up meeting me in the middle at $195,000 which for the area I’m buying in was a great deal.
My realtor is young and first started in 2020 when people were offering more then asking, I think realtors are still getting used to the new market where buyers are getting better deals then they were 2yrs ago.
1 Reply
Clint Galliano
Real Estate Agent · Houma, LA · Member since 2016 · 240 posts · 115 votes
3y
Quote from @Frank A Castro:

Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Let me see if I have the facts right here:
1 - You are making an offer for under the asking price
2 - Your agent doesn't want to make the offer
3 - If the offer were made, it could be accepted and you would get a property at a discount.
4 - If the offer were made, it could be turned down with a counter offer from the seller, or....you could make another offer higher than the first
I'm leaning towards dumping your agent. Your agent is supposed to be working for you, not against you. They can recommend you make a higher offer if they think someone else will, and they would get it instead of you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make the discounted offer if you think you want to...especially if you need the discount to make this a good deal. You base your offer on whether or no that offer will get the property, you make offers based on getting the deal. If you have to increase your offer to get the property, but then the deal isn't good, you don't want the property...you only want deals.

@Joe Villeneuve appreciate your feedback.
That's exaclty the same way I look at it. Like i told him today, " If I want to pay for listing price I will just jump on the listing that has been on the market for 7 hours". There's a reason why i target property that have been listed for a longer period of time.
On the other side he's a really knowledgeable person. But I feel that I am stuck with a home buyer agent rather than a investment property agent.

Have you had the discussion with him that you are an investor and that you are not emotionally involved in the outcome of the deal, that your offers are pure business decisions AND you are willing to negotiate via counteroffers? With him working for you as a buyer's agent, he should write what you are offering, not talk you out of it. Instruct him to tell the listing agent that you are expecting a counteroffer to your offer.
If he doesn't want to do that, find an investor-friendly agent.
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Kerry BairdPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y

@Frank A Castro I have been in the same situation. I wanted to make owner financing deals as my Plan A, and when sellers reject that, I have a discounted price for Plan B. I did get another agent and couldn't be happier with the decision.
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Michelle Fenn
Real Estate Agent · Cleveland OH · Member since 2015 · 216 posts · 275 votes
3y
I would look for a new agent. I am an agent and I will tell you that at most brokerages there are very few agents that will or want to work with investors. The primary reason is real estate is a commissioned sales position and investors making low ball offers can create a lot of work with little return on investment. If I were you I would search out property management firms operating under the umbrella of a local real estate broker. In the Cleveland area, Keller Williams and REMAX franchise holders offer property management. I would then look to work with an agent working in the property management group. They will understand the financials of buy to hold and buy to flip investments and be able to offer you off market deals on currently managed properties that owners are looking to unload.
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Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 706 votes
3y

Hi @Mark Updegraff,
I really appreciate your input, however I will say that yes, I am trying to get something at a discount, hence why I have in my search Criteria houses that need light repairs and have been listed for a longer period of time, why ? Because in my market supply hasn't kept up with demand and everyone that's selling their properties know that.
You stated on your answer that you think the reason the house is on the market for so long is because is overpriced or has issues, but then you said that I am trying to get lucky because I am trying to get it at a discount. You also said that I am not trying to buy an investment property, but get lucky, like if paying for an overpriced item was going to do me any good.
The reason I came here was to seek advice from people that have been on the game longer than me, have most likely experienced this in some sort of way in the past, and how they have dealt with it.
I will leave below my analysis for this particular property, maybe someone that knows my market (VA Beach ) can see something that I don't.
Asking Price: $370k
My Offer: $340k plus closings ( about $10k)
0% down, and buying my rate down to about 5.5% fixed at 30 yrs ( around an extra $2000 )-> PITI $2275 , plus 388 ( CapEx, Vacancy and Repairs) = 2663
Income: $2600
Then you see that even offering $340k and self managing I'd be -$63. However, I'd be living in this house for at least two years( VA loan 1 year required) while I am renting my other cash flowing property ( I am also in the process of pulling a HELOC to help funding my next deal). While living in the house I will be forcing appreciation by improving comps and give time to the rental market to catch up.
I spend my free time analyzing properties and 85% of them I don't even show it to my agent because of the unrealistic offers I would have to send for it to make sense. Also, I show the listings I want to put an offer on to my agent, he doesn't bring them to me, which I don't have a problem with.
I do agree he is a hard worker and a great person, I just don't think we have the same strategy approaches.
Respectfully.

The main point I'm trying to make is this, and I don't know the answer it would take a little due diligence which you could request from your agent.  Which, if he is unwilling to do then I will agree with the sentiment in this forum and that is to find another agent.

What is the market value of that home? You see, you're subject to the forces of that market, unless you "get lucky" as I like to say. You can't fight the market, you can participate in it knowing full well what you're getting yourself into. Or you can choose to wait for a more favorable time. OR you can choose to find a more favorable location. The problem with your approach is that you want something SPECIFIC. The more specified you "investment" is the less likely it is you'll "get a deal"

True investors scour the entire market, in fact the may watch multiple markets in multiple locations! They're focused on opportunities.  To the true investor it is about the numbers first and everything else second. By restricting your search you're restricting your ability to be a good investor. Ask yourself, is this really an investment or am I looking for a deal on something particular. Be honest with yourself too.
There are markets that a pro forma will NEVER work. Sitting around waiting for one in such a market is a waste of everyone's time.
Ask your agent to do this. Tell him: "Sir, I really want my next "investment" to be a 4 bed 2 bath 1600 sq ft colonial style with garage within the zip code of 12345 and within 1 mile of sunnyville elementary (or whatever your MUST HAVES are, he'll need them all). Can you please make a spreadsheet of all the homes sold in the last 90 days, and 365 day that fit this criteria within 100 + or - the square footage and they can have 4+ beds and 2+ beds." Once you have this data, you (or he) can do a quick analysis. What I do is add a column to calculate the price / ft of each sale and then reorder the data to go from lowest price / ft to highest. You'll need a least a dozen entries to get some accuracy to this. If you don't have it you'll need to open up your criteria a bit. Don't restrict by a criteria that is not common among houses, like lot size. If you want 4 acres but the average property in that area is 1/2 acre don't put that restriction on. This would be another parameter that tells me you're bargin hunting and not "investing". Once you have your list rank ordered take the subject property and multiply its square footage by the average of the middle 80% of the price / ft entries.  This will give you an approximate value if the subject property's condition is similar to that 80% average. Ask him to also email you those comps so you can drill in and look at them and see if one or two stick out as "most similar" You can multiply that out by the subject sq ft and that should give you a really clear view on what MIGHT be attainable IF the market fundamentals are still the same. In my market, the "chasing" approach is a good place to start however sales are going way above asking so this metric isn't and end all be all for a good agent.  A good agent will know the market and help you attain your goal. Remember in a market with rapidly rising prices delay may end up costing you more. I know everyone in this forum will shout things like "used car sales man" etc. Trust me, I've done this for 12 years.  The people that listened to me, even in a rising market HAVE MADE OUT THE BEST. People with your approach have not.
As a disclaimer, I don't know this agent or if he's worth a ****. However, these stats are true: 20% of agents sell 80% of the real estate. Chances are, if you have one of these 20% you've got someone that knows the market VERY WELL and can help you attain your goal.  What he or she CANT do is force the market to be something it is not.
All that said:
Asking price 370k, your net to seller offer 330. (Please, never add your concessions as "your offer", we're talking about net to seller.  Like I said previously that 10k extra makes you look like a weak buyer).
SO your 40k Under his ask. This is 10.8% under list price. Let me be real with you, and maybe you ARE right about valuation. When you're on a market and you get an offer that is 10.8% less than asking, you're going to do a price reduction FIRST before you entertain the offer to see if there are other buyers that don't want to kick tires. Sorry, thems just the facts man. If you're not within ~5% of a list price, you're probably not going to do well. Be honest with yourself though, you want a house, and you want a deal.  You're not an "investor" in this situation.  You're a buyer that simply wants a discount.

QUICK TIP: If you can do the deal without the concessions have your agent construct the deals without the concessions and then after you've come to terms with a seller ask them to add the concessions back on top the offer. In this scenario you came to terms at 330k and then your agent would write an agreement that the seller agrees to add the 10k sellers to the top of the offer making it 340k and if the property does not appraise the buyer agrees to take them back off. What you're doing with the concessions as part of the offer is not smart. If the property doesn't appraise and I'm the seller now I just went down this road with your (at a discount to my list price none the less) and now I've got to discount it more if I want to do the deal, PLUS I've been off market for 2 months for possible other buyers).

Let me say this as well:  The market is VERY sensitive when listings are even just a small amount over the true market value.  He could be off by as little as 5k and it is hurting the seller to get it sold.  If what you told me is true and it was severely overpriced to begin with then that would make complete sense.  He could be one 5k price cut away from the landing the appropriate buyer. Hell, he could be one 5k cut away from multiple offers pushing it past 370!! I'm not kidding, I've see it.

Final disclaimer. You could be right, or I could be right. Do that exercise and find out.  If I was a gambler, I would put money on me 😜
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Updegraff Group Realty4.746 Reviews
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2 Reply
Craig Clinton
Investor · Nutley, NJ · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 56 votes
3y
I'm not sure if you already did this, but educate him on what you are doing and why. He works for you. If he is still uncomfortable after that, find a new agent. I'm not suggesting you get your RE license but that's one of the reasons that I have mine. Most agents cannot do accurate comps and do not understand investors. good luck!
0 Reply
Kyle Kipka
Investor · Cottage Grove, MN · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 11 votes
3y
Quote from @Luciano A.:

@Kyle Kipka
Not all new builds would work just like not all SFRs would make good investments. Some builders are offering incentives that could save you money, such as buy-down programs and warranties on certain new homes—which may not be the case with older properties. For new builds, you wouldn't have to worry about major CapX repairs, especially with the 2-10 warranties builders give. And because rents tend to be higher and they rent faster—you'll also see lower vacancy rates. In my area, some new homes are being sold at a lower cost per square foot than older homes in the same neighborhood.

However, I have advised many newer investors that not all markets make sense to invest in. As a builder myself with an edge, I can see people buying duplexes for $500k and ask myself: What is their play? Some people buy properties not necessarily for cash flow. Not everyone buys for appreciation. Some people buy to preserve capital for the long term, while others use cost seg depreciation to offset W2 income if their partner is a stay home parent. Investing in long-term rental properties with the goal of earning a double-digit return can be done—but it requires patience and diligence. You have to look at many deals before one works out for you.

Warren Buffet's quotation about being greedy when others are fearful doesn't always hold true, because sometimes you should just sit tight and wait. And work on improving your investment strategy—it's better to pivot than make bad moves out of panic or greed. People in high-priced markets are making their rental numbers work by relying on Airbnb. Perhaps there is another way you can make your numbers look good—midterm rentals or rent by the room, for example.

Agreed, no point in acting hasty and trying to force something that you might regret later. I'll keep looking, running the #s and thinking through new strategies. Thanks for your response.
0 Reply
Frank A Castro
OP
Member since 2020 · 60 posts · 32 votes
3y
Quote from @Mark Updegraff:

Hi @Mark Updegraff,
I really appreciate your input, however I will say that yes, I am trying to get something at a discount, hence why I have in my search Criteria houses that need light repairs and have been listed for a longer period of time, why ? Because in my market supply hasn't kept up with demand and everyone that's selling their properties know that.
You stated on your answer that you think the reason the house is on the market for so long is because is overpriced or has issues, but then you said that I am trying to get lucky because I am trying to get it at a discount. You also said that I am not trying to buy an investment property, but get lucky, like if paying for an overpriced item was going to do me any good.
The reason I came here was to seek advice from people that have been on the game longer than me, have most likely experienced this in some sort of way in the past, and how they have dealt with it.
I will leave below my analysis for this particular property, maybe someone that knows my market (VA Beach ) can see something that I don't.
Asking Price: $370k
My Offer: $340k plus closings ( about $10k)
0% down, and buying my rate down to about 5.5% fixed at 30 yrs ( around an extra $2000 )-> PITI $2275 , plus 388 ( CapEx, Vacancy and Repairs) = 2663
Income: $2600
Then you see that even offering $340k and self managing I'd be -$63. However, I'd be living in this house for at least two years( VA loan 1 year required) while I am renting my other cash flowing property ( I am also in the process of pulling a HELOC to help funding my next deal). While living in the house I will be forcing appreciation by improving comps and give time to the rental market to catch up.
I spend my free time analyzing properties and 85% of them I don't even show it to my agent because of the unrealistic offers I would have to send for it to make sense. Also, I show the listings I want to put an offer on to my agent, he doesn't bring them to me, which I don't have a problem with.
I do agree he is a hard worker and a great person, I just don't think we have the same strategy approaches.
Respectfully.

The main point I'm trying to make is this, and I don't know the answer it would take a little due diligence which you could request from your agent.  Which, if he is unwilling to do then I will agree with the sentiment in this forum and that is to find another agent.

What is the market value of that home? You see, you're subject to the forces of that market, unless you "get lucky" as I like to say. You can't fight the market, you can participate in it knowing full well what you're getting yourself into. Or you can choose to wait for a more favorable time. OR you can choose to find a more favorable location. The problem with your approach is that you want something SPECIFIC. The more specified you "investment" is the less likely it is you'll "get a deal"

True investors scour the entire market, in fact the may watch multiple markets in multiple locations! They're focused on opportunities.  To the true investor it is about the numbers first and everything else second. By restricting your search you're restricting your ability to be a good investor. Ask yourself, is this really an investment or am I looking for a deal on something particular. Be honest with yourself too.
There are markets that a pro forma will NEVER work. Sitting around waiting for one in such a market is a waste of everyone's time.
Ask your agent to do this. Tell him: "Sir, I really want my next "investment" to be a 4 bed 2 bath 1600 sq ft colonial style with garage within the zip code of 12345 and within 1 mile of sunnyville elementary (or whatever your MUST HAVES are, he'll need them all). Can you please make a spreadsheet of all the homes sold in the last 90 days, and 365 day that fit this criteria within 100 + or - the square footage and they can have 4+ beds and 2+ beds." Once you have this data, you (or he) can do a quick analysis. What I do is add a column to calculate the price / ft of each sale and then reorder the data to go from lowest price / ft to highest. You'll need a least a dozen entries to get some accuracy to this. If you don't have it you'll need to open up your criteria a bit. Don't restrict by a criteria that is not common among houses, like lot size. If you want 4 acres but the average property in that area is 1/2 acre don't put that restriction on. This would be another parameter that tells me you're bargin hunting and not "investing". Once you have your list rank ordered take the subject property and multiply its square footage by the average of the middle 80% of the price / ft entries.  This will give you an approximate value if the subject property's condition is similar to that 80% average. Ask him to also email you those comps so you can drill in and look at them and see if one or two stick out as "most similar" You can multiply that out by the subject sq ft and that should give you a really clear view on what MIGHT be attainable IF the market fundamentals are still the same. In my market, the "chasing" approach is a good place to start however sales are going way above asking so this metric isn't and end all be all for a good agent.  A good agent will know the market and help you attain your goal. Remember in a market with rapidly rising prices delay may end up costing you more. I know everyone in this forum will shout things like "used car sales man" etc. Trust me, I've done this for 12 years.  The people that listened to me, even in a rising market HAVE MADE OUT THE BEST. People with your approach have not.
As a disclaimer, I don't know this agent or if he's worth a ****. However, these stats are true: 20% of agents sell 80% of the real estate. Chances are, if you have one of these 20% you've got someone that knows the market VERY WELL and can help you attain your goal.  What he or she CANT do is force the market to be something it is not.
All that said:
Asking price 370k, your net to seller offer 330. (Please, never add your concessions as "your offer", we're talking about net to seller.  Like I said previously that 10k extra makes you look like a weak buyer).
SO your 40k Under his ask. This is 10.8% under list price. Let me be real with you, and maybe you ARE right about valuation. When you're on a market and you get an offer that is 10.8% less than asking, you're going to do a price reduction FIRST before you entertain the offer to see if there are other buyers that don't want to kick tires. Sorry, thems just the facts man. If you're not within ~5% of a list price, you're probably not going to do well. Be honest with yourself though, you want a house, and you want a deal.  You're not an "investor" in this situation.  You're a buyer that simply wants a discount.

QUICK TIP: If you can do the deal without the concessions have your agent construct the deals without the concessions and then after you've come to terms with a seller ask them to add the concessions back on top the offer. In this scenario you came to terms at 330k and then your agent would write an agreement that the seller agrees to add the 10k sellers to the top of the offer making it 340k and if the property does not appraise the buyer agrees to take them back off. What you're doing with the concessions as part of the offer is not smart. If the property doesn't appraise and I'm the seller now I just went down this road with your (at a discount to my list price none the less) and now I've got to discount it more if I want to do the deal, PLUS I've been off market for 2 months for possible other buyers).

Let me say this as well:  The market is VERY sensitive when listings are even just a small amount over the true market value.  He could be off by as little as 5k and it is hurting the seller to get it sold.  If what you told me is true and it was severely overpriced to begin with then that would make complete sense.  He could be one 5k price cut away from the landing the appropriate buyer. Hell, he could be one 5k cut away from multiple offers pushing it past 370!! I'm not kidding, I've see it.

Final disclaimer. You could be right, or I could be right. Do that exercise and find out.  If I was a gambler, I would put money on me 😜
Appreciate your elaborated response, truly. While I agree with all the info and facts ypu have provided, i must say, and thats on me for not putting it out correctly: On my $340k I am the one paying for the $10k of closings, not the seller.
0 Reply
Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 706 votes
3y
Appreciate your elaborated response, truly. While I agree with all the info and facts ypu have provided, i must say, and thats on me for not putting it out correctly: On my $340k I am the one paying for the $10k of closings, not the seller.

OK, so you're 30K under the 370k list or 8%, that's getting pretty close to making a deal.
Is this your "Best and Final" offer? If it was, you've got to wait for a price reduction before you'll be able to make a deal. That 5% I talked about is pretty tried and true. If you want a response from the seller, you'll need to be at least at that price point. If I was your agent and you told me you needed to be at 340k and you wouldn't pay a penny more, I would do a verbal with the listing agent. They would likely run it by the seller and he would say no, maybe you get some insight into what he would take wiht a verbal counteroffer. I would then tell you we've gotta wait until the next price reduction when we're within that 5% of list price. Hopefully the cut didn't spark offers and then we could negotiate you down to where you want to be.
If you want the house and you don't want to loose it, you could try to do a best and final now. IMO 8% under won't get it done. If you were willing to come to 350 it would increase your odds but they would be slim still. Realistically if you want the deal now, you probably need to be at least at 355k and that isn't a given. if the seller didn't take 360 given a lot of days on market he is a fool. If that was the case just wait it out for the next reduction.
You want to be conscious on how you're structuring your offers. The listing agent will read through the lines and make a lot of assumptions. If you can keep the concessions off until after you have a number it is going to help you. When you come in asking for concessions the seller thinks, man this guy NEEDS my help to buy a house, he can pay me MY price for MY help. Take it off, it isn't helping you. Once you get the deal, have you agent add it back in so long as you agree to take it off if the appraisal becomes an issue.
Increase your deposit AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. This will show you're a serious buyer. Even if you end up getting a credit back at close. You're in a low % down product, make yourself look like a well qualified buyer in other regards to counteract that.
Waive your inspection. Sellers that entertain low ballers know that it isn't the end of the negotiation. As soon as you get them to capitulate you have an inspection and then ask for another 20k or more off. Don't be that guy. Get your discount upfront by letting the seller know you're a professional taking it as is, with a quick close. This will give them peace of mind that the CAN work with you at a discount. If that is past your comfort zone, have the inspection performed before you write the offer. Most seller's will be OK with that if they know that you'll be writing an inspection free offer.
In concluding, if you're w/in 8% of the list price the agent should be willing to help you make a deal unless they know something you don't.

Hope all that helps!
Sincerely, Mark Updegraff
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Updegraff Group Realty4.746 Reviews
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Henry Lazerow
Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Then find a new agent. Any good agent won't send unrealistic offers it's a waste of their time. I tell clients that straight up and still rank in the top producers working almost entirely with investors. Have lost a few clients due to this and thats OK as allows me to prioritize serious buyers.
1 Reply
Adam Christopher Zaleski
Investor · Pueblo West, CO · Member since 2014 · 310 posts · 213 votes
3y
It doesn't seem like a good fit between buyer and agent. Most agents try to find primary homes for people, not deals for investors.
I don't really subscribe to the idea of "The worst is that they can say no." You can ask for something reasonable and get it. If you ask for something unreasonable, you can be left with zero.
One of my friends was selling a condo in a seller's market. If the buyer asked for 2 or 3 things to be fixed, my friend would have done it. Well, the buyer gave my friend a laundry list of 8-10 things that they wanted fixed. My friend got upset and refused to fix anything. He also made the transaction as difficult as possible for the buyer to the end. I think it's possible to ask for "too much" and it can hurt you sometimes. It's possible your agent is protecting you from asking for "too much"
0 Reply
Sean HudginsPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Chesapeake Va · Member since 2019 · 150 posts · 100 votes
3y
I think you are being very reasonable. You have to be able to offer what you think the property is really worth. we got our current live in fix by offering 30k under asking in December 2021 when the market was on fire.
If your agent isn't willing to work with you i would be happy to.
There is nothing wrong with an agent offering their opinion of the value of the property but you have to offer the right number for you, and as long as your agent believes you can get to the closing table i think they should be more than willing to submit the offer.
[email protected]757-844-8215
1 Reply
Steve Milford
Lender · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2015 · 482 posts · 316 votes
3y
Here is what you ask your agent, "Are you open to writing offers at a price I want, or do I find another agent that will?"
Now, most agents don't want to write and write and write fantasy offers. That's a waste of time.
But what sounds like a bigger issue, is that your agent might not like conflict. Offering list price and agreeing to everything seller wants tells me that your agent doesn't like the negotiation phase. That's the most fun for me, getting the "win" for the client, aside from presenting keys. Either get your agent to embrace your offer type or dump him. If he doesn't like your offers, he should just be straight up and tell you he doesn't like your style, and maybe help you go find someone else. Then at least he can get a referral from it too. Versus you just walking off. I've done it, not a big deal.
1 Reply
Kevin Maher
Appraiser · Rosemary Beach, FL · Member since 2009 · 30 posts · 28 votes
3y
Now is not a good time to buy. Why are you wanting to buy so bad today. Patience. The market is correcting and will go down further. Rents are dropping according to zillow. Prices are declining evidenced by more price reductions. Wait until the market turns and the prices start to go up. Sales are starting to increase. Yes that is probably a year from now.
1 Reply
Juan Jorge
Atchison, KS · Member since 2018 · 28 posts · 7 votes
3y
Just wondering. Why can't you just talk to the selling agent and ask him if his client is willing to accept a lower than (current) list price offer? I'm a newbie, so if that's not lawful or good business practice, sorry.
I wasn't at all pleased with my agent refusing to relay my lower than ask offer to an off-market owner of a 5 acre rural property. The property was overgrown vegetation and dilapidated buildings that required bulldozing, working with count to establish an address, gain road access, etc. Besides, it had an odd, uneven topography.
0 Reply
Frank A Castro
OP
Member since 2020 · 60 posts · 32 votes
3y
Quote from @Juan Jorge:

Just wondering. Why can't you just talk to the selling agent and ask him if his client is willing to accept a lower than (current) list price offer? I'm a newbie, so if that's not lawful or good business practice, sorry.
I wasn't at all pleased with my agent refusing to relay my lower than ask offer to an off-market owner of a 5 acre rural property. The property was overgrown vegetation and dilapidated buildings that required bulldozing, working with count to establish an address, gain road access, etc. Besides, it had an odd, uneven topography.

@Juan Jorge I could do that too. What you suggest can definitely be done, and the agent is supposed to adopt a neutral position, since he would be representing two parties with different interests ( buyer and seller). There could be two outcomes: a)the listing agent wants to get rid of this listing because it has been sitting in the market for too long and the the quicker he closes, the faster he gets paid and moves on. Therefore he might be willing to talk to the seller. Or b) Since the listing agent also represents the seller he will look after him by voicing his opinion on whether the offer is worth or not given market value, listing time, competition, etc.

I think honestly this boils down to a fear of conflict as @Steve Milford stated previously.

1 Reply
Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 706 votes
3y
@Frank A Castro
I've been obsessed with ChatGPT for the last week. For fun, I pulled out my dialogue with you, but not even in a really sophisticated way. I gave it your input of your first question followed by all my responses (with none of your content in-between). and asked it to write a short article. Here is what it came up with:
It sounds like you have a specific idea of what you are looking for in a property and are hoping to negotiate a discount from the listing price based on the market time and potential repairs or modifications needed. However, it seems that your agent is not comfortable writing offers that are significantly lower than the listing price and is trying to guide you towards a more realistic approach. In a strong buyer's market like the one you are in, it is likely that there will be a high number of offers on any decent property, making it difficult to secure a significant discount. It is important to remember that as a buyer, you are subject to the forces of the market and cannot expect to "fight" it and get a deal that is not in line with market value. It may be more realistic to expand your search criteria and focus on finding opportunities rather than trying to get a specific property at a discount. It may be helpful to ask your agent to provide a spreadsheet of all homes sold in the last 90 days and 365 days that fit your criteria, so you can analyze the data and see where the market is trending. Ultimately, it is important to be honest with yourself about whether you are truly looking for an investment or just looking for a deal on something specific.
Pretty cool!! 😎

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1 Reply
Frank A Castro
OP
Member since 2020 · 60 posts · 32 votes
3y
Quote from @Mark Updegraff:

@Frank A Castro
I've been obsessed with ChatGPT for the last week. For fun, I pulled out my dialogue with you, but not even in a really sophisticated way. I gave it your input of your first question followed by all my responses (with none of your content in-between). and asked it to write a short article. Here is what it came up with:
It sounds like you have a specific idea of what you are looking for in a property and are hoping to negotiate a discount from the listing price based on the market time and potential repairs or modifications needed. However, it seems that your agent is not comfortable writing offers that are significantly lower than the listing price and is trying to guide you towards a more realistic approach. In a strong buyer's market like the one you are in, it is likely that there will be a high number of offers on any decent property, making it difficult to secure a significant discount. It is important to remember that as a buyer, you are subject to the forces of the market and cannot expect to "fight" it and get a deal that is not in line with market value. It may be more realistic to expand your search criteria and focus on finding opportunities rather than trying to get a specific property at a discount. It may be helpful to ask your agent to provide a spreadsheet of all homes sold in the last 90 days and 365 days that fit your criteria, so you can analyze the data and see where the market is trending. Ultimately, it is important to be honest with yourself about whether you are truly looking for an investment or just looking for a deal on something specific.
Pretty cool!! 😎

I understand your approach. However, I am not just trying to land a deal on a home. Just to be clear, I have no emotional feelings for any properties in particular. Maybe I said this before , maybe I didn't but If my numbers make sense at asking price or higher I wouldn't ask for discount, and I could even send an offer over asking price if the property in question is being highly contested, but in the vast majority of listings in my market that's not the case. How does that make me deal digger over an investor ? Besides, I still believe that is not such a crazy idea to ask for an 8% discount to a listing that has been on the MLS for 4+ months lowering price over and over. I am not saying to send a formal offer instantly, but to at least verbally propose to the listing agent to see what the odds are.
On the other hand, I might be failing because I am searching for a hot commodity where everyone else that is searching can see it ( MLS, redfin, realtor.com, etc). My other alternative would be finding off market prospects, wholesalers, etc. and narrow down the competition.
Btw, I didn't know about that ChatGPT website, it seems pretty cool.
Cheers.

0 Reply
John M.
Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 801 votes
3y
You can't close deals unless you make offers. I would get a new agent since this one is not interested in making money.
4 Reply
Jacob Beg
Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2017 · 122 posts · 44 votes
3y
Hi! I buy properties from various sources so I do not have an exclusive agreement with agent, he understands that the property I source myself are my efforts. We have a good understanding about this. I am reasonable in my offers, and if I have to lowball I will lowball. If numbers don't work, you should not go against numbers because your agent is uncomfortable. Get another one, there are many good ones especially if you are serious about purchasing.
There is also the question of whether this agent is bringing additional value etc. You can always try out another agent and see if that works better.
2 Reply
Stephanie Ford
Real Estate Broker · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 16 votes
3y
Get a new agent!
0 Reply
Steve Milford
Lender · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2015 · 482 posts · 316 votes
3y
It is actually very simple. The agent passes the message onto another party and is a participant in the conversation, advising that client. That is our fiduciary responsibility. When the agent stops doing that, then they are no longer acting in the best of the client = goodbye. You want to come here and offer 8% below list, I will let you do that all day long lol. Most listings here sell 10%-15% below list.
2 Reply
Corey YoungPro Member
New to Real Estate · Tyler, TX · Member since 2019 · 41 posts · 30 votes
3y
Quote from @Frank A Castro:

Quote from @Joehn B.:

Consider doing a little more work and find off market properties on your own. No realtor, just you and Mr. Motivated homeowner.
Some realtors don't like the low ball offers because a) it takes time to put together the offer and that time would be wasted b) they make more money at list. <== It's almost a conflict of interest.

I will put more emphasis on this type of deal finder. Thank you.

This is what I was going to suggest. I have an agent looking casually for properties for me, but I just found a really nice deal FSBO that I did all the work for and it's worked out really well. I still like my agent and will continue to work with her, but I can't ask her to put in offers that are sometimes 60% below asking price even if that is the best offer they are going to get on their property
1 Reply
January Johnson
Real Estate Agent · Emerald Coast, FL · Member since 2016 · 820 posts · 486 votes
3y
Look for a REALTOR with a RENE certification: Real Estate Negotiation Expert.
1 Reply
Fred Chidsey
New to Real Estate · Denver Colorado · Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 1 vote
3y
Frank,
I have to agree with the majority of the comments here. I see two possibilities,
1. have a very tough conversation with your agent, advise them that you are not a retail investor and if the two of you are going to work together, they are going to have to get use to making offers they may be uncomfortable with. Either they are going to want to get paid or they are not.
2. find a new agent and when you are interviewing them have this discussion upfront.
I was fortunate enough to listen to my dad when he negotiated the deal for the first house we had in Florida. During the course of the negotiations after the inspection came back the deal was 1000 dollars apart. My dad simply told the realtor find a solution but I am walking from the 1000.00 difference and not paying it. Ultimately, everybody kicked in 250.00. But the realtor he was working with was ok with hearing "NO" and took no issues with it. They had no issues writing a contract for whatever we wanted to offer.
1 Reply

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