Matt Onofrio Tax fraud indictment
SC · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 25 votes
Matt Onofrio Tax fraud indictment
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Quote from @Robert Beeman:
I made this video this morning below in seeing this article. I'm hopeful that BiggerPockets will start doing a better job of vetting who they decide to put in the spotlight. Platforms such as BP can compound individuals popularity that can lead to the average investor investing in people and places that they should not.
Real Estate Guru Rant: https://youtu.be/mzBa_cgTBtg
Any suggestions on the type of vetting you'd like to see BiggerPockets do for their guests?
It was 2 years later before the FBI was able to find enough evidence to take action; I'm not sure it's a reasonable to expect a podcast platform to meet a higher bar than the FBI.
Don't mean that to sound flippant, but this is a difficult issue to address and we don't know how often BiggerPockets has actually been successful in filtering potentially shady guests. Perhaps their track record is better than we all suspect.
41 Replies
- Lender · CA · Member since 2018 · 638 posts · 393 votes3y
This bums me out because I was a huge fan of his episode. I have listened to it probably 20 times.
- Real Estate Agent · Rochester, MN · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 11 votes3y
I made this video this morning below in seeing this article. I'm hopeful that BiggerPockets will start doing a better job of vetting who they decide to put in the spotlight. Platforms such as BP can compound individuals popularity that can lead to the average investor investing in people and places that they should not.
Real Estate Guru Rant: https://youtu.be/mzBa_cgTBtg
- Real Estate Agent · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 734 posts · 511 votes3y
I don't know the man and have zero skin in that game but I read the article and I don't see a scam that hurts investors here...
"...Among those is Onofrio wiring funds from his company to investors’ accounts to temporarily increase their assets when they sought financing from banks. The funds would then be wired back to Onofrio..." - So he funded the investor's down payment? was there an equity share there? That's not illegal.
"...Onofrio would also lend funds to investors — a practice referred to as the “seller carry” — to help them complete real estate buys, but this was not disclosed to banks that financed those deals..." - Seller Carry is a crime now?!"...Three specific wire transfers made to investor accounts between June 2021 and September 2021 are listed in the indictment to support the three counts of bank fraud Onofrio is charged with..." - and all that only happened 3 times total?! The headline makes it sounds as if he did that for decades.
In BOTH the above charges, seems like the disclosure duty was on the actual investor taking the loan, not on this guy. I don't understand what case they think they have there if these the main arguments. There might be a lot more going on in the lawsuit but all I have to go on is this article.
Again, don't know the guy, I didn't even hear the podcast you guys mentioned, I just think we shouldn't condemn the guy based on a clickbait headline and weak allegations that anyone that knows the business can call BS on...
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes3y
Joseph Gozlan -
Article:
The case against Onofrio is the result of an investigation done by the FBI, IRS and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, according to the U.S. Attorney’s news release.
That's pretty serious. Don't think they would investigate and then bring charges and waste time. Quote from @Robert Beeman:
I made this video this morning below in seeing this article. I'm hopeful that BiggerPockets will start doing a better job of vetting who they decide to put in the spotlight. Platforms such as BP can compound individuals popularity that can lead to the average investor investing in people and places that they should not.
Real Estate Guru Rant: https://youtu.be/mzBa_cgTBtg
Any suggestions on the type of vetting you'd like to see BiggerPockets do for their guests?
It was 2 years later before the FBI was able to find enough evidence to take action; I'm not sure it's a reasonable to expect a podcast platform to meet a higher bar than the FBI.
Don't mean that to sound flippant, but this is a difficult issue to address and we don't know how often BiggerPockets has actually been successful in filtering potentially shady guests. Perhaps their track record is better than we all suspect.
- Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes3y
Quote from @Joseph Gozlan:
I don't know the man and have zero skin in that game but I read the article and I don't see a scam that hurts investors here...
"...Among those is Onofrio wiring funds from his company to investors’ accounts to temporarily increase their assets when they sought financing from banks. The funds would then be wired back to Onofrio..." - So he funded the investor's down payment? was there an equity share there? That's not illegal.
"...Onofrio would also lend funds to investors — a practice referred to as the “seller carry” — to help them complete real estate buys, but this was not disclosed to banks that financed those deals..." - Seller Carry is a crime now?!"...Three specific wire transfers made to investor accounts between June 2021 and September 2021 are listed in the indictment to support the three counts of bank fraud Onofrio is charged with..." - and all that only happened 3 times total?! The headline makes it sounds as if he did that for decades.
In BOTH the above charges, seems like the disclosure duty was on the actual investor taking the loan, not on this guy. I don't understand what case they think they have there if these the main arguments. There might be a lot more going on in the lawsuit but all I have to go on is this article.
Again, don't know the guy, I didn't even hear the podcast you guys mentioned, I just think we shouldn't condemn the guy based on a clickbait headline and weak allegations that anyone that knows the business can call BS on...
So with the example of him secretly funding the buyers down payment…
I guess it’s possible that he’d sign a PSA for $5m when it was really $4m and he’d wire the $1m to his buyer before closing.
Then the bank would fund the deal 100% to the TRUE purchase price and Matt would get his $1m back because the buyer would wire it into closing
The bank just didn’t realize it was lending 100%
Pretty clear cut case of bank fraud.
In a case like my potential example, the buyer and Matt would be working together to produce a fraudulent PSA and I'm assuming supporting docs to show the property could meet the bank's DSCR requirements.
Lots of chatter in the CRE world about Matt today. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out but it's not looking good for him from what I've read.
That article was poorly written IMO because it does villainize the seller 2nd. Seller 2nd's are perfectly fine IF you disclose them to the bank and you're buying it in a way (price/terms) that it still meets DSCR metrics.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes3y
Well its mortgage fraud, not tax frauds
District Invest Group545 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 734 posts · 511 votes3y
Quote from @Brandon Hicks:
Quote from @Joseph Gozlan:
I don't know the man and have zero skin in that game but I read the article and I don't see a scam that hurts investors here...
"...Among those is Onofrio wiring funds from his company to investors’ accounts to temporarily increase their assets when they sought financing from banks. The funds would then be wired back to Onofrio..." - So he funded the investor's down payment? was there an equity share there? That's not illegal.
"...Onofrio would also lend funds to investors — a practice referred to as the “seller carry” — to help them complete real estate buys, but this was not disclosed to banks that financed those deals..." - Seller Carry is a crime now?!"...Three specific wire transfers made to investor accounts between June 2021 and September 2021 are listed in the indictment to support the three counts of bank fraud Onofrio is charged with..." - and all that only happened 3 times total?! The headline makes it sounds as if he did that for decades.
In BOTH the above charges, seems like the disclosure duty was on the actual investor taking the loan, not on this guy. I don't understand what case they think they have there if these the main arguments. There might be a lot more going on in the lawsuit but all I have to go on is this article.
Again, don't know the guy, I didn't even hear the podcast you guys mentioned, I just think we shouldn't condemn the guy based on a clickbait headline and weak allegations that anyone that knows the business can call BS on...
So with the example of him secretly funding the buyers down payment…
I guess it’s possible that he’d sign a PSA for $5m when it was really $4m and he’d wire the $1m to his buyer before closing.
Then the bank would fund the deal 100% to the TRUE purchase price and Matt would get his $1m back because the buyer would wire it into closing
The bank just didn’t realize it was lending 100%
Pretty clear cut case of bank fraud.
In a case like my potential example, the buyer and Matt would be working together to produce a fraudulent PSA and I'm assuming supporting docs to show the property could meet the bank's DSCR requirements.
Lots of chatter in the CRE world about Matt today. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out but it's not looking good for him from what I've read.
That article was poorly written IMO because it does villainize the seller 2nd. Seller 2nd's are perfectly fine IF you disclose them to the bank and you're buying it in a way (price/terms) that it still meets DSCR metrics.
IF it was phrased the way you phrased then you are correct but read the article language. From the way it's written, he's neither the buyer nor the seller.
Like I said, don't know the guy or the case against him, just don't see a reason to condemn a guy w/o knowing the actual facts.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3y
@Joseph Gozlan
Don’t know him but I am sure there is ALOT more to this story. I am in a private group with people who said they had discussions to do business with him and walked away because of concerns.
7e investments53 Reviews - Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes3y
Quote from @Joseph Gozlan:
Quote from @Brandon Hicks:
Quote from @Joseph Gozlan:
I don't know the man and have zero skin in that game but I read the article and I don't see a scam that hurts investors here...
"...Among those is Onofrio wiring funds from his company to investors’ accounts to temporarily increase their assets when they sought financing from banks. The funds would then be wired back to Onofrio..." - So he funded the investor's down payment? was there an equity share there? That's not illegal.
"...Onofrio would also lend funds to investors — a practice referred to as the “seller carry” — to help them complete real estate buys, but this was not disclosed to banks that financed those deals..." - Seller Carry is a crime now?!"...Three specific wire transfers made to investor accounts between June 2021 and September 2021 are listed in the indictment to support the three counts of bank fraud Onofrio is charged with..." - and all that only happened 3 times total?! The headline makes it sounds as if he did that for decades.
In BOTH the above charges, seems like the disclosure duty was on the actual investor taking the loan, not on this guy. I don't understand what case they think they have there if these the main arguments. There might be a lot more going on in the lawsuit but all I have to go on is this article.
Again, don't know the guy, I didn't even hear the podcast you guys mentioned, I just think we shouldn't condemn the guy based on a clickbait headline and weak allegations that anyone that knows the business can call BS on...
So with the example of him secretly funding the buyers down payment…
I guess it’s possible that he’d sign a PSA for $5m when it was really $4m and he’d wire the $1m to his buyer before closing.
Then the bank would fund the deal 100% to the TRUE purchase price and Matt would get his $1m back because the buyer would wire it into closing
The bank just didn’t realize it was lending 100%
Pretty clear cut case of bank fraud.
In a case like my potential example, the buyer and Matt would be working together to produce a fraudulent PSA and I'm assuming supporting docs to show the property could meet the bank's DSCR requirements.
Lots of chatter in the CRE world about Matt today. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out but it's not looking good for him from what I've read.
That article was poorly written IMO because it does villainize the seller 2nd. Seller 2nd's are perfectly fine IF you disclose them to the bank and you're buying it in a way (price/terms) that it still meets DSCR metrics.
IF it was phrased the way you phrased then you are correct but read the article language. From the way it's written, he's neither the buyer nor the seller.
Like I said, don't know the guy or the case against him, just don't see a reason to condemn a guy w/o knowing the actual facts.
There are several articles out there and at least one of them mentioned that he falsifying purchase agreements so that assets would appraise higher. They also mention that was wiring funds into buyer's accounts prior to close so that they could the money as towards or as their down payment. This is what I lead me to give the hypothetical (but probably correct) scenarios up above.
- Real Estate Agent · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 734 posts · 511 votes3y
Like I said, don't know the man or the case. If he committed fraud, he should be punished.
Fraudulent transactions make all of our lives harder :-(
When federal investigations are done, hardly ever is all the information released and hardly ever is it encapsulated into an article from MSM. Take that article with a grain of salt and know there was a lot of hours put into the investigation. Only real way to know is when the charging affidavit is released or requested by FOIA. Not saying he's guilty, just saying you know about 5% of the actual facts from that article alone.
If you want to know what really happened, request the indictment.
BP already removed the podcast episode.
Dang that disappoints me,
I source off-market RE for SFRs.
After sourcing a 12-unit apartment deal for my friend and after listening to Matt's Episode
I have and am still in the process of completely transitioning my team to start generating Off Market CRE Deals (Specifically NNN - Industrial, Retail, Office)
I'm still doing it, however, it sucks because I thought his strategy was the best route in CRE as he scaled 0-150M in 3 years.
I interviewed Matt for the Best Ever Podcast. I was shocked by two things. He blatantly admited that he finds high networth W2 earners (typically doctors) and helps them purchase CRE. With cost segs and bonus depreciation the doc is able to offset their W2 income. Great strategy because high earning W2 employees don't typically have ways to reduce taxable income. When I asked about RE professional status the answer was, (paraphrase - we make the doctors wife who doesn't work a RE professional). I cringed everytime he said that, why not "doctors spouse"? Further, he only buys NNN properties. The IRS does not allow passive or NNN investments to count towards your 750 hours. I think there is a whole new world of scrutiny if the Feds decide to pursue the RE professional tax status that many if not all of his clients benefited from. Most people think RE Professional is arbitrary but I caution you, there is a lot of case law where the IRS challenges this qualification and wins. It sucks because this gives the industry a black eye.
@Ryan Phu - Don't be dissapointed, I have a whole network of non-residential CRE investors that are dying for office, retail, industrial, flex, warehouse, land, medical etc. We all look for value add vs. stabilized fully leased properties. Typically $1-2mm and above sweet spot being $3-8mm.
- Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Quote from @Ryan Phu:
Dang that disappoints me,
I source off-market RE for SFRs.
After sourcing a 12-unit apartment deal for my friend and after listening to Matt's Episode
I have and am still in the process of completely transitioning my team to start generating Off Market CRE Deals (Specifically NNN - Industrial, Retail, Office)
I'm still doing it, however, it sucks because I thought his strategy was the best route in CRE as he scaled 0-150M in 3 years.
Except him scaling from 0-$150mm in net worth was a complete lie as well.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes3y
Yeah I do have doctors where the spouse claims re professional status and then married filing jointly so not capped ( this is not legal or tax advice! )
Their accountants give them a detailed form to log the hours to hopefully stand up to an audit if one occurs.
It's true NNN is mostly passive so really can only count maybe a few hours a year toward that. What my clients do is keep a certain percentage of their portfolio holdings more on the active assets to log the hours and then still buy NNN for passive and do a slow conversion of assets over time.
I have also seen where the man or woman who is not a doctor is licensed in RE full time but as a residential agent and they know nothing of commercial so they still reach out to someone like me a commercial broker for help in purchasing NNN.
On the value add NNN side I have about 100 plus properties I am writing offers on. I call them DMD's (double money deals). I want to at a minimum double the money on exit ( nothing is guaranteed of course like any investment). There are some investors who do volume on 20 to 25% upside margins but I do not want that kind of life. I would rather do less volume and more fatter deals and arrive at close to the same place with more time for myself and my family to enjoy life versus working endless hours.
This type of thing with charges could take many years to resolve. An example is the Chrisleys television show investors. Their case took years and then now looking at 12 years with the verdict but they are appealing.
Nobody knows what happened with this Matt person. His Facebook mentioned doing 500 million deals in 1 year and going for 1 billion the next. If it's currently 35 million in allegations then there could be a lot more out there with more loans and banks you just never know. With bank loans if there was no real money involved for the down payment then the bank can't do accurate underwriting on a loan to assess risk of the borrower, the property, and a lot of other metrics that go into a yea or no on a deal by deal basis. Had the banks knows all the facts would they have still done the loan? If the answer is no then by omitting key and crucial facts that could make the case to appear to be fraud.
Everyone is entitled to their due process and not guilty until proven otherwise in a court of law.
- 3yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
It was a real bummer to hear about the indictment earlier this week, and I know that a lot of folks really enjoyed Matt Onofrio's episode as a particular favorite. The allegations are terrible, and I hope that they are not true.
We have had over 1,000 guests on the BiggerPockets podcast. Over the course of the past decade, there have been a handful of instances where we have decided to remove an episode from our library, and unfortunately, in light of the recent allegations, this is one of those times.
We robustly screen our podcast guests. On very, very rare occasions we've made the decision to remove content - I believe we are in the ballpark of 3-5 instances of removed content out of 1,000+ episodes across our network over the past 10 years. Earning your trust as community members and listeners is incredibly important to us, and we try to learn from each of the instances where we've had to make this decision and continue to improve.
- 3yYonah WeissPro MemberCost Segregation Expert and Investor · Lakewood, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Good to hear that BP removed the episode @Scott Trench. @Ash Patel, that is cringeworthy, but usually when people say that it's due to ignorance. If a savvy investor says that he tells others that in order to invest with them, that is ill-intent.
I refused to interview him on my show, just got a bad gut feeling about him.
Unfortunately the world is filled with bad actors who have bad intentions, and think they don't have to abide by the law. As @Joseph Gozlan said, it makes it harder for the rest of us.
Quote from @Todd Dexheimer:
Quote from @Ryan Phu:
Dang that disappoints me,
I source off-market RE for SFRs.
After sourcing a 12-unit apartment deal for my friend and after listening to Matt's Episode
I have and am still in the process of completely transitioning my team to start generating Off Market CRE Deals (Specifically NNN - Industrial, Retail, Office)
I'm still doing it, however, it sucks because I thought his strategy was the best route in CRE as he scaled 0-150M in 3 years.
Except him scaling from 0-$150mm in net worth was a complete lie as well.
I was skeptical of that, what was the real number? From the hours of research I have done I've seen NNN is slow and steady increasing networth of 7-8figs a year but not that magnitude.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 125 votes3y
BP could have done better because it fails the test of common sense. This market clears efficiently and is not a tech start up where you can go from 0 to $150m of net worth in 4 years. It’s the commercial real estate equivalent of saying you made $10m flipping 15 houses. People in this industry know that’s not really feasible.
I know Matt and our market. I have been getting calls from brokers and investors since this story broke. No one I spoke with is surprised to read this news and if I were an investor in any of these deals I would do everything I could to make sure my investment is secure.
Quote from @Joseph Gozlan:
I don't know the man and have zero skin in that game but I read the article and I don't see a scam that hurts investors here...
"...Among those is Onofrio wiring funds from his company to investors’ accounts to temporarily increase their assets when they sought financing from banks. The funds would then be wired back to Onofrio..." - So he funded the investor's down payment? was there an equity share there? That's not illegal.
"...Onofrio would also lend funds to investors — a practice referred to as the “seller carry” — to help them complete real estate buys, but this was not disclosed to banks that financed those deals..." - Seller Carry is a crime now?!"...Three specific wire transfers made to investor accounts between June 2021 and September 2021 are listed in the indictment to support the three counts of bank fraud Onofrio is charged with..." - and all that only happened 3 times total?! The headline makes it sounds as if he did that for decades.
In BOTH the above charges, seems like the disclosure duty was on the actual investor taking the loan, not on this guy. I don't understand what case they think they have there if these the main arguments. There might be a lot more going on in the lawsuit but all I have to go on is this article.
Again, don't know the guy, I didn't even hear the podcast you guys mentioned, I just think we shouldn't condemn the guy based on a clickbait headline and weak allegations that anyone that knows the business can call BS on...
That's not the way I'm reading it. In the first case, it seems he's been accused of transferring money into his clients accounts prior to making an offer on a property, to help them qualify for larger mortgage loans/ boosting their buying power so they could buy a more expensive property than they be able to qualify for without the boost he gave their bank account. Then the money was transferred back to him after the sale closed. This would be mortgage fraud/ bank fraud. Not exactly a victimless crime when we consider 2008-2010 GFC was caused by this type of fraudulent activity. The seller carry charge was illegal because it wasn't disclosed to the primary lender. This is more often known as a "silent second mortgage" or using an unauthorized loan to fund the down payment and failing to disclose it to the primary lender, not really what we would consider seller carry so I think it's just a semantics/ difference in terminology thing here. The buyer would have had to lie about the source of downpayment funds and that would be perjury/bank fraud. You're correct that it's the borrower breaking the law but if he was advising clients to structure the deal this way, I assume he'd be considered complicit in the crime. The wire transfers were likely for above purposes and wire fraud is a typical "gotcha" that the feds use because there's a clear paper trail they can follow, just like RICO charges with gangsters it's easier to prosecute than other crimes with less evidence. There may have been other fraudulent things going on and this is just what they felt confident charging him with. I don't know anything about this case and don't know the person in question, never even listened to the podcast or anything but this is what I gleaned from reading the same article you did. I know that the FBI, IRS, and FDIC tend to move very slowly and deliberately, and only move forward with an arrest when they believe they have a very strong case with sufficient hard evidence to get a conviction. $35M is a lot of money as well. If someone had pulled these same tricks for 3 $100k transactions they may not have drawn the same heat. Again, I know nothing of the case, this is just how I'm understanding the article.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3y
@Steve K.
Agree
Indicted by a grand jury means there typically is some really juicy evidence
Here is an article and what is sounds like was he was allegedly getting properties under agreement, selling them to other investors at a higher price - possibly manipulating the numbers for higher appraisals so he could give the new buyer a loan for the delta.
“Federal prosecutors described a similar pattern, with Onofrio allegedly placing his own money into investors’ accounts to make their finances look better to lenders, and also fabricating appraisal documents to inflate the value of properties.”
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/turns-out-a-real-estate-guru-peddling-the-deal-of-a-lifetime-was-really-a-fraud-prosecutors-say-11669928059
7e investments53 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Rochester, MN · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 11 votes3y
Quote from @J Scott:
Quote from @Robert Beeman:
I made this video this morning below in seeing this article. I'm hopeful that BiggerPockets will start doing a better job of vetting who they decide to put in the spotlight. Platforms such as BP can compound individuals popularity that can lead to the average investor investing in people and places that they should not.
Real Estate Guru Rant: https://youtu.be/mzBa_cgTBtg
Any suggestions on the type of vetting you'd like to see BiggerPockets do for their guests?
It was 2 years later before the FBI was able to find enough evidence to take action; I'm not sure it's a reasonable to expect a podcast platform to meet a higher bar than the FBI.
Don't mean that to sound flippant, but this is a difficult issue to address and we don't know how often BiggerPockets has actually been successful in filtering potentially shady guests. Perhaps their track record is better than we all suspect.
Fair point J.Scott.
I would say that to get on the most popular podcast in the world when it comes to real estate is it just a matter of telling the founders/gate keepers "I made quick dollars on flipping commercial real estate ?" If that is all it is recognize that by letting someone on the show within a matter of months this someone can go from 0 Instagram following to over 100K followers in months. This attention then allows them to start wholesaling deals to people that find them online from all over the country. It also gives them instant street cred and they use it as a way to market themselves as an experienced guru.
When our real estate company wants to rent out apartments no matter the cost we ask for a credit check, background check, and references. I don't have any other suggestions other then doing one of the three things above as a good starting point prior to giving someone the microphone to the largest podcast in the world surrounding the topic of real estate.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes10mo
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
7e investments53 Reviews- Rental Property Investor · New Braunfels, TX · Member since 2021 · 289 posts · 256 votes10moNothing out of Minnesota surprises me anymore. This is why corruption continues to grow in this country. No one is held accountable for their actions.
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
- Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
He already paid out $35M, so unless they are giving it back, that's gone.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Todd Dexheimer:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
He already paid out $35M, so unless they are giving it back, that's gone.
oh ok, I thought something was up as the way it reads was he made $35M and only has to pay $5M back and was like - WOW. I have someone I grew up with who just pleaded guilty to fraud as they worked at a credit union and went into other peoples computers and adjusted his heloc from $150k to $1M and changed the rate from 7.99% to 1.99%. Like how do you think you will not get caught eventually.
7e investments53 Reviews - 10moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
I bet he was smart enough to move a big fat retainer in the 500k plus range to the best attorneys he could find.. I am familiar with a case in NV were the guy ripped of hedge funds for 150 mil through fraud very basic fraud just photo shopped bank statements to make his start up look like it was making tons of money when in fact it was broke.. He pocketed about 20 mil then got caught and same thing got 4 years and was out in about 2 .. went to that facility in N. Dakota that looks like a old collage.. but that's what he did he knew he was going to get nailed and hired the best criminal attorney in NYC with a big fat 500k plus retainer. Those are the crooks that get the lighter sentences the crooks that have no money and have poor defense tend to get very long sentences or max sentences. - Lender · CA · Member since 2018 · 638 posts · 393 votes10mo
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
Been following this case since day, one. Had a note in my calendar to check the verdict in January, didn't realize it already came back
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Todd Dexheimer:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
He already paid out $35M, so unless they are giving it back, that's gone.
oh ok, I thought something was up as the way it reads was he made $35M and only has to pay $5M back and was like - WOW. I have someone I grew up with who just pleaded guilty to fraud as they worked at a credit union and went into other peoples computers and adjusted his heloc from $150k to $1M and changed the rate from 7.99% to 1.99%. Like how do you think you will not get caught eventually.
Thing is, the ~$35m is what they know/caught as ill-gotten gains and they seized. Tack on the $5m restitution.
But how much did he get away with???????
He had been claiming he was worth $160m+....... How much was BS, how much legit?
How much is in the Cayman Islands?????
And 3yrs time..... Many have gotten longer time for DWI.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
I bet he was smart enough to move a big fat retainer in the 500k plus range to the best attorneys he could find.. I am familiar with a case in NV were the guy ripped of hedge funds for 150 mil through fraud very basic fraud just photo shopped bank statements to make his start up look like it was making tons of money when in fact it was broke.. He pocketed about 20 mil then got caught and same thing got 4 years and was out in about 2 .. went to that facility in N. Dakota that looks like a old collage.. but that's what he did he knew he was going to get nailed and hired the best criminal attorney in NYC with a big fat 500k plus retainer. Those are the crooks that get the lighter sentences the crooks that have no money and have poor defense tend to get very long sentences or max sentences.I have a feeling that's the instance here.
Said was facing up to 30yrs, and got 3..... One realtor in connection got nailed 1yr probation and a $10k fine..... Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hand slapping, and yeah took the "kitty" that was sitting there for the taking....
Not cheap to buy such hand slapping, not cheap at all.
One thing not mentioned is how he afforded the $5m restitution.
Aahh, come on, this is MN, it's crazy conspiracy theory to think there's any corrupt anything going on to let such fraud slide at all...... lol.
- 10moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
I bet he was smart enough to move a big fat retainer in the 500k plus range to the best attorneys he could find.. I am familiar with a case in NV were the guy ripped of hedge funds for 150 mil through fraud very basic fraud just photo shopped bank statements to make his start up look like it was making tons of money when in fact it was broke.. He pocketed about 20 mil then got caught and same thing got 4 years and was out in about 2 .. went to that facility in N. Dakota that looks like a old collage.. but that's what he did he knew he was going to get nailed and hired the best criminal attorney in NYC with a big fat 500k plus retainer. Those are the crooks that get the lighter sentences the crooks that have no money and have poor defense tend to get very long sentences or max sentences.I have a feeling that's the instance here.
Said was facing up to 30yrs, and got 3..... One realtor in connection got nailed 1yr probation and a $10k fine..... Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hand slapping, and yeah took the "kitty" that was sitting there for the taking....
Not cheap to buy such hand slapping, not cheap at all.
One thing not mentioned is how he afforded the $5m restitution.
Aahh, come on, this is MN, it's crazy conspiracy theory to think there's any corrupt anything going on to let such fraud slide at all...... lol.
depends where you do the time.. Club fed like the guy i know.. or like another guy I worked for that got 9 years at San quention Hard time. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
I bet he was smart enough to move a big fat retainer in the 500k plus range to the best attorneys he could find.. I am familiar with a case in NV were the guy ripped of hedge funds for 150 mil through fraud very basic fraud just photo shopped bank statements to make his start up look like it was making tons of money when in fact it was broke.. He pocketed about 20 mil then got caught and same thing got 4 years and was out in about 2 .. went to that facility in N. Dakota that looks like a old collage.. but that's what he did he knew he was going to get nailed and hired the best criminal attorney in NYC with a big fat 500k plus retainer. Those are the crooks that get the lighter sentences the crooks that have no money and have poor defense tend to get very long sentences or max sentences.I have a feeling that's the instance here.
Said was facing up to 30yrs, and got 3..... One realtor in connection got nailed 1yr probation and a $10k fine..... Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hand slapping, and yeah took the "kitty" that was sitting there for the taking....
Not cheap to buy such hand slapping, not cheap at all.
One thing not mentioned is how he afforded the $5m restitution.
Aahh, come on, this is MN, it's crazy conspiracy theory to think there's any corrupt anything going on to let such fraud slide at all...... lol.
depends where you do the time.. Club fed like the guy i know.. or like another guy I worked for that got 9 years at San quention Hard time.Fair point. I am comfortable in my assumption he will be going to the one with a movie theater, 9-hole golf course, weekend visitation bungalows..... And yeah, not opinion, I know a person who stayed at that club Fed. He made it sound like a resort. Similar thing, did fraud. And got away with what they never found. Was a former Mayor. Did a similar thing to what you said, pre-positioned a nice fat retainer with super power legal firm. Was a member of my ToastMasters chapter. Guy was a great public speaker, though, lol.
- Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes10mo
Quote from @Mike Kirby:
Nothing out of Minnesota surprises me anymore. This is why corruption continues to grow in this country. No one is held accountable for their actions.Quote from @Chris Seveney:
3 years and $5M in restitution, curious what others think about this? Did he really net $35M and only has to pay $5M in restitution and 3 years in jail? 3 years in prison and does he keep the $30M (if so, I would guess a lot of people would take that deal)
Over the course of approximately two years, Onofrio completed 68 deals involving $420,564,795 in fraudulently obtained bank loans. Although many of Onofrio’s investors stopped paying on their promissory notes following Onofrio’s indictment in this case, Onofrio netted at least $35,745,252 from his fraudulent scheme before being caught.
Pretty sure he was from Wisconsin but I share your view of MN. Edited...the case was handled in MN so I get the reference.
- 10moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Real estate investing seems to be a ripe arena for con artists
- Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Real estate investing seems to be a ripe arena for con artists
Investing in anything is ripe for con artists. Bernie Madhoff, Charles Ponzi, Lou Pearlman, Frank Abagnale, Elizabeth Holmes, and the list goes on.
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