Bill Bronchick Mentor Program

[Sean Henderson]

Hello Everyone,

My name is Sean Henderson and I am fairly new to the investing community and biggerpockets.com. After searching and searching through these forums and through different search engines online, I cant seem to find any objective opinions of Bill Bronchicks mentoring program. I am hoping that someone here has some personal knowledge of his program or knows someone who does. If anyone does, please let me know what you think of it in terms of the three levels offered and if you believe it is worth the money.

My biggest concern is that I have read that most of the learning is in the first few months and then the rest of the time will be spent making things happen by applying what you have learned. Because of this, is it worth paying for the full year of the program or just paying for the 6 months and working hard to make things happen early enough that you can have the guidance early on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I do live in Denver Colorado so I would be able to apply his knowledge of the local market to my plans and goals. That being said, part of me wonders how much information you can really get from a mentor because in essence, if a mentor teaches you all they know, wouldn't that be counter productive to their succesful business because now they would have strong local competition? just a thought!

Thank you for your time!

Sean

[Jon Holdman]

Bill actually runs the largest of our REIA's, CAREI - Colorado Association of Real Estate Investors. He's a pretty savvy guy who does know the local conditions and laws, and does actively invest here. Whether or not its worthwhile to pay him to mentor you is another question.

Denver is actually a very competitive market, especially in the range where rentals make sense.

Go to some CAREI meetings and you'll meet him in person. There's one tomorrow night on the NW side. His brother's speaking, so I think he will be there. This is a smaller meeting, so its a good chance to meet some people.

[Michael Rossi]

Have you tried going to your local REIA and making friends with the SUCCESSFUL investors in your area? You don't need to pay someone to learn the business - your new friends at the REIA will be happy to help you (mentor you) for free.

To answer your question, NO, I do not view the other members of my REIA as competitors (including new investors). There are plenty of deals to go around and very few serious investors in most communities.

Good Luck,

Mike

[Jon Holdman]

Bill actually runs the largest of our REIA's, CAREI - Colorado Association of Real Estate Investors. He's a pretty savvy guy who does know the local conditions and laws, and does actively invest here. Whether or not its worthwhile to pay him to mentor you is another question.

Denver is actually a very competitive market, especially in the range where rentals make sense.

Go to some CAREI meetings and you'll meet him in person. There's one tomorrow night on the NW side. His brother's speaking, so I think he will be there. This is a smaller meeting, so its a good chance to meet some people.

[Sean Henderson]

Thank you for your input!

John, as far as the meeting in Westminster tomorrow night I will definitely be there. Im glad to hear that it is a smaller meeting because when I went to the meeting in Aurora 2 weeks ago I was shocked to see how many people attended.

With his mentor program the main thing that I was looking for was the course content that is offered. From my understanding the courses that are offered come with very detailed instructions on structuring deals and protecting yourself legally. I believe they also come with all the forms and contracts to make the deals go smoothly.

Because I am new at this I have what I feel to be a great understanding of the general idea of obtaining properties to either flip or hold. I also feel like I have a strong enough understanding of the marketing end to start working toward getting that first deal under my belt. The piece that I feel like I really know nothing about is the paperwork side. Is there another way that I can learn the legal and paperwork end of the deals that you can suggest? I would love to hear any ideas of suggestions that you can offer.

Thanks for your time!

Sean

[Michael Rossi]

You can make friends with the successful investors in your area, starting with the successful investors at your REIA. I'm absolutely sure that several of the investors there will be happy to share their paperwork with you and help walk you through a deal (maybe even Jon).

In the mean time, ask questions here on BiggerPockets!

Good Luck,

Mike

[Richard Lambert]

Sean,

You may want to check out IRR as well. They are another REIA in the Denver metro area. They meet the first Tuesday of every month and I've found them to be very helpful, they have a lot of good content at the meetings and you can meet people who are actively involved in real estate.

Richard

[Jon Holdman]

IRR has a meeting on Thursday (tomorrow, now). That's also a smaller, though not exactly small, group.

[Anson Young]

After being part of AZREIA, one of the best REI groups in the nation, CAREI does hold up the good standard. I'm not a huge fan that CAREI is run by a 'Guru', I might check out IRR however...

[Jon Holdman]

I'd have to agree. The CAREI meetings have become to "pitchy" for me, especially the big one. Nevertheless, I have made several useful contacts via CAREI.

I've only been to one IRR meeting so far, and it was very good. The speaker was not selling anything, and gave a great presentation on raising money.

To answer your question, Sean, Bill sells a set of courses that contain a ton of forms. The material is pretty good, too. Tends to be pretty basic stuff, but covers a lot of detail.

[Anson Young]

Originally posted by Jon Holdman:

I'd have to agree. The CAREI meetings have become to "pitchy" for me, especially the big one. Nevertheless, I have made several useful contacts via CAREI.

I've only been to one IRR meeting so far, and it was very good. The speaker was not selling anything, and gave a great presentation on raising money.

To answer your question, Sean, Bill sells a set of courses that contain a ton of forms. The material is pretty good, too. Tends to be pretty basic stuff, but covers a lot of detail.

My thoughts exactly, went to the REI 2 day event earlier this year, and it was exactly what I thought it was, sell-i-nar. That is what I expected, so it wasnt too bad. Now I will really have to look at IRR. I have had CAREI on my calendar for a year solid, I cant break myself away from dollar productive activities to be sold something I dont need. :-p

[Sean Henderson]

John, the thing that I am most concerned with is exactly what you said, “tends to be pretty basic stuff, but covers a lot of detail. The thing that I keep noticing over and over is that everything that I have seen that is for sale doesn’t seem to have all of the info. If I were to purchase the courses I would be looking for something that has a complete in depth lesson on how each transaction works and the paperwork necessary to accomplish this. I know that these courses will not make me money them selves, I have to go out and accomplish that on my own. Which I have to say I am excited to do!!! What I want is something to fall back on the way a writer can fall back on a dictionary. I want to have all the information that I need to make deals successful. I want to be able to understand that part of the industry like the back of my hand. My ultimate goal is to focus all of my time on real estate and create a business that has great growth potential with a solid foundation.

Now with that being said, do you feel like the course are more like a flyover of the information, or is it down in the dirt where I have all the facts and it’s my job to put them into motion?

If you know of other options for courses or in depth books like this please tell ;)

Also, thank you Richard for the suggestion about IRR. I will check them out also

[Jon Holdman]

I do not believe what you want exists. This business is both simple and complex at the same time. Buying houses, selling them, or renting them is all a pretty straightforward business. You can spend some time reading here and get a lot of input on what works and what doesn't.

But in every deal there are always some gotchas. Some little something that just doesn't work out quite like you would expect. So, you always end up learning lessons with everything you do.

That's not limited to just real estate. Seems true for pretty much anything I've every done.

I have not inquired as to what Bill's mentoring costs. He's certainly a sharp and knowledgeable guy. I have no idea if this mentoring is a good deal or not. The course is useful, and I've listened to the whole thing and learned some information. The forms are valuable.

If you read 10 books on RE investing, the 11'th one will likely cover much of the same ground as the other 10. That doesn't means its not useful, though. There may be some specific item you learn that proves valuable. If you read 100 books, the 101'st is unlikely to provide any useful information.

Its no different with these courses. If you spend $10K on 10 courses, you'll probably learn quite a bit. If you spend $10K with one person (no idea if that's what this mentoring costs, just using a number here), you will (well, you SHOULD) get a lot of info. You will, however, get just that person's perspective.

I'm not sure you can every know this like the back of your hand. But if you read a dozen books, go to meetings and talk to people, read and participate here, and start doing or at least trying to do some deals, you will learn the business well enough to be profitable.

[Ross Hair]

Sean,

You need a hands on mentoring program with someone in the field - someone who invests day in and day out.

I recommend a guy at IRR called Andy Bacon. He spends every day in the field and has become a wily old pro at fixing those sub 100K junkers. His old partner John Fisher is also very good and runs a monthly sat morning breakfast meeting.

Go to CAREI for intial networking but spend most of your time with Andy at IRR and John Fisher. The website is www.irrofcolorado.com.

[Sean Henderson]

Ross, thank you for the advice. After reading your post I started digging around the internet a little and I found that IRR has a mentor program that has classes starting next week. I set up a meeting on Monday morning to speak with a gentleman named Brad Podhajsky to discuss details. Im interested to hear what they have to offer. It sounds like it would be a lot more hands on than what I would be doing with the program offered through Carei.

[Michael Rossi]

I would like to know if the REIA has a purpose (other than funneling customers into their business)? I thought helping REIA members (for free) was the purpose of the REIA. If they're charging for "mentoring", it sounds like they're just a business peddling their wares!

Mike

[Kyle D.]

Sean,
What did you find out about the IRR mentoring program?

[Jeff Tumbarello]

Originally posted by MikeOH:

I would like to know if the REIA has a purpose (other than funneling customers into their business)? I thought helping REIA members (for free) was the purpose of the REIA. If they're charging for "mentoring", it sounds like they're just a business peddling their wares!

Mike

Mike,

Most REIA's are focused on platform sales. The speaker gives them between 25 to 50 percent of the gross. There You also have national speakers who run club in the area where they live. Most REIA's are platform sales oriented because that is where the money is. You can make more money with a good selling speaker in a day than on any fix and flip. At least you could before the debacle hit. I have not see a fresh idea on the speaking circuit in many, many years. Its all the same stuff. They attend each others seminars and take notes. I think its called research!

I am not bashing all speakers, There are some speakers that are worth seeing and buying their course. Pete Young's comes to mind, he has a great course on rehabs. Every new investor should take his one day. I sat thru his one day course. I learned some great tips. I already had 30 rehabs under my belt when I attended it.

You really have to weed out who is worth doing business with at a REIA meeting.

There are 3 types at these meetings (life in general as well)
lemmings
looters
business people

avoid the top 2.

PS I have run off most of the top 2 from the SWFL REIA

The stories of these groups could make a great book. Locally we have a guy who runs a group called the "forever wealth club" , funny part is, his own house is currently in foreclosure....... We all have our scar tissue. IMHO, one should allow your wounds to heal before performing surgery on others. :) I found other examples in Ohio as well.

The best thing to take from any REIA group, is find out what the investors did that, did not work. If you play this game long enough you will earn some scar tissue. Try and find out what current deals make the experienced investors scar tissue ache, when they do their DD. I feel mine ache when I see anything listed in East Fort Myers currently. There are houses listed at 15k, that in the late 1990's I used to buy anything for under 30K. I can not find a reason to buy anything in that market at those prices. I sure have tried to find a way recently. The scar tissue aches a bit as a manipulate the spreadsheet :)

In all the cycles, the people who worked as if there was no work to be had tomorrow fared the best. Very few came through any of them unscathed.

Funny thing about humanity and those cycles, no matter who tries to change their outcomes...

[Jeff Tumbarello]

Originally posted by Sean Henderson:

Hello Everyone,

My name is Sean Henderson and I am fairly new to the investing community and biggerpockets.com. After searching and searching through these forums and through different search engines online, I cant seem to find any objective opinions of Bill Bronchicks mentoring program. I am hoping that someone here has some personal knowledge of his program or knows someone who does. If anyone does, please let me know what you think of it in terms of the three levels offered and if you believe it is worth the money.

My biggest concern is that I have read that most of the learning is in the first few months and then the rest of the time will be spent making things happen by applying what you have learned. Because of this, is it worth paying for the full year of the program or just paying for the 6 months and working hard to make things happen early enough that you can have the guidance early on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I do live in Denver Colorado so I would be able to apply his knowledge of the local market to my plans and goals. That being said, part of me wonders how much information you can really get from a mentor because in essence, if a mentor teaches you all they know, wouldn't that be counter productive to their succesful business because now they would have strong local competition? just a thought!

Thank you for your time!

Sean

What are your goals for REI?

[Michael Rossi]

I agree and that's very sad. I believe that REIAs are most effective when they are non-profit and formed for the purpose of sharing information rather than making money. The local REIA that I belong to is non-profit and we don't take any money from speakers. We do have speakers at some meetings, but they are usually local people that affect our businesses - like a local Section 8 officer; a local title agent (to discuss title issues), etc. Personally, I enjoy the meetings more when we don't have a speaker at all and simply have a roundtable discussion. Our REIA is an anomoly in that we have a high percentage of active investors and very few wannabes. Almost everyone in our group has done at least a few deals and several are larger landlords.

[Jim Sharp]

You most likely aren't going to get Bill Bronchick himself. His experience is sifted down to lower paid coaches. I once asked one of his coaches a REI question about options... Said never to do them in this type of market. Wrong answer for me. Control with low risk seems to be a pretty good way to do business when everything tightens up.

I just found out a guru here uses craiglist to find coaches. Most gurus are great information marketing people, building dreams. Its frustrating, but finding someone who does what you want to do can be found. Be of use for them and most people will hold your hand.

[Sean Henderson]

Originally posted by Kyle D.:

Sean,
What did you find out about the IRR mentoring program?

As far as the IRR mentoring program I cant say enough good things. I ended up signing up for the program last minute and I don't feel like I could have made a better choice. It was a 6 week program taught by Andrew Bacon and Brad Podhajsky that was full of great information that has set me up to begin my investment career. The value in my opinion though isn't just from the information given in the class. A large part of the value to me is in the network that I was able to build within the class and how Andy and Brad provided access to their extensive network of people. If any one is interested in the class please let me know. They will be offering another program soon and I would be happy to give you my honest opinion on the course. :D

Jeff, my goals in REI are at a constantly evolving state right now. My long term goal is to own large apartment communities because I like the idea of being challenged on that scale. With that being said, what I am trying to do know is build a smaller investment company that will over time provide the capital to make the leap into larger projects. The challenge now that I am dealing with though is my age and how my student loan debt is effecting my debt/income ratio. Its making it very hard for me to move forward right now. I believe that I would be able to secure a hard money loan for example to rehab a single family home but if It doesn't sell my debt/income ratio may not allow me to qualify for a traditional loan to turn it into a rental. I'm not sure how to approach this so If you have any advice I would love to hear it.

Thanks so much!

Sean Henderson
Polished Property Group

[Ross Hair]

Hi Sean,

I'm thrilled you had a good mentoring experience with Brad and Andy at IRR.

I've only heard good things about them.

It makes such a difference when you get real hands on mentoring from someone who wakes up in the morning and actually does the things that he teaches.

Just compare that to the "coaching calls" you get from Provo, Utah (home of most coaching programs) - where they spend most of their time trying to upsell you into the next level of coaching.

[Brad Podhajsky]

Thanks Sean for your kind words!

[REMOVED]

[Dianne Leaming]

Hi, Everyone,
After reading this conversation I wanted to add a few comments in regards to Bill Bronchick and CAREI. I took Bill's mentoring program for a year and found it to be of very high quality so I continued on for another year. It is impossible to get & implement quality information in a short time frame since every deal is different, has different players, and different issues to solve. With Bill Bronchick, he personally answers all my questions and even often gets back to me on weekends. I can't tell you how helpful that is when I need an answer to a problem quickly. Bill has other coaches, who are all very good and he himself is very accessible. I have not seen a program anywhere that has the depth and breadth of knowledge his does. He is also an active investor in the trenches every day, doing different types of deals in today's market. I would highly recommend his program to anyone serious about investing.
I have a successful short sale business after mentoring with Bill and unlimited income. It would have been impossible to do on my own. I have mentored in other programs and none of them can even COMPARE to Bill's. Bill is constantly adding new, very useful material to his program. Remember, a student must put the knowledge into ACTION and have the mindset for success!

Dianne Leaming
Colorado New Beginnings Program, Inc.

[Mary Smith]

Bronchick was hired and trusted by my elderly mother and is now being sued by the CO Attorney General on behalf of the Colorado Division of Regulatory Securities for multiple instances of fraud. See the details here: https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/our-cases/securities-investments/bronchick-william-individually-and-legalwiz-bronchick-associates-pc and here: https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/sites/default/files/cases/Bronchick%20-%20Complaint%20for%20Injunctive%20and%20Other%20Relief.pdf