GDNIP Ep 25: Understanding Your Investments Better To Avoid Risks

Making investments and all the risk around it can sound intimidating with all its complexities. That’s why finding people whom we can get advise from and walk us through the basics to make us aware of the precautions we can take can be such a great help. On this episode, Chris and Gail continue to feed us with a great amount of knowledge as they talk about questions they have been getting over the past months from investors. Some of the questions they shed light on are about property locations, hiring realtors, legal descriptions, neighbors around the property, deficiency judgment, forced place insurance, title insurance claim and some important details around these.

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Gail Anthony Greenberg & Chris Seveney Understanding Your Investments Better To Avoid Risks

Understanding Your Investments Better To Avoid Risks

I’ve got a tape of 500 assets of notes. I haven’t seen something that large in a while. On our previous episode, we took a brief look at how to break some of those down and look at them. I started going through the tape. When you get that many, it can be overwhelming but you’ve got to stick to your guns and invest in certain locations or states that are your primary states you invest in. I’ve got that narrowed down from 500 down to about 150. I’ve gone through about 70 assets, which is a quick cursory review to start narrowing down ones that I’ll do some serious consideration on. Overall, to give people an idea, I probably spent an hour-and-a-half to two hours narrowing down 500 down to where I’m at and gone through 70 of them already.

It helps to have criteria. It makes the list something you can tackle.

I go back to using one of my favorites with DataTree. I can put in the addresses and it pops the information up and I can get a quick glance, Street View and some information really quick to put it in a list of don’t bother or let me take a look at this one later on down the line. Of the 70 that I’ve looked at, fifteen of them so far have piqued any type of interest that I would do some additional due diligence on.

DataTree, your one-stop shopping website for all the information you need.

For people who may create their own deeds, they now have the property where it’s seven feet north of stake. The legal descriptions, they’re for $5 or $7 per property. If you’re creating a deed, you can buy the proper legal description, download it so you don’t have to type it out or figure it out or find it. You can download it right through them for $7.

That saves a little time hunting down important documents on the website. Some of these county websites aren’t that easy to find things. I’ve been discovering that, but I’m checking all the non-escrowed loans I have. I’m trying to see if people pay their taxes or not. It’s amazingly difficult to find the information in some counties. What’s happened for me is that I have gotten possession of a CFD that was in my IRA. I’m making the preparations and doing what I need to take it as a distribution to myself personally from my IRA. In our last episode, I talked about this at length but I forgot a couple of varied key things that I wanted to say.

The house was in hazardous condition and I felt helpless while the borrower was still marginally complying with her land contract and I was not able to take the house back. My main motivation in taking it back was to take a hazardous house that I thought the family living there was in imminent danger. It was interesting that I couldn’t take it back legally. Neither was I willing to put the $150,000 worth of renovations into it that would need to be safe. I wasn’t going to do that while they were living in it. They had a UPB of $21,000 so I definitely wasn’t going to fix it. It was in a real conundrum. What to do when you have a CFD, it’s a hazardous situation. You have the liability if anything happens and you have no control. You can’t make them fix it. In our case, we couldn’t even get them to let us in to inspect to know what to fix.

I wanted to tell people that first of all, you have to worry about things being in your IRA. You have to worry about legal challenges that could drain your IRA and wipe it out because we all think that IRA money can’t be invaded in as the result of a lawsuit. We have OJ Simpson to thank for that because he lost a huge lawsuit filed by the grieving families after the deaths. Even though they want a big judgment, they could never get his money because it was all in his IRAs. It is not true that an IRA is in violet if the offense is related to the activities of the IRA. The fact that my IRA owned this house means it could have been sued had anything happened. What I should have done all along was put this house in a trust where my IRA would have been the beneficiary of the trust, but there would not have been a public record that my IRA was the owner. That would have been a simple way to insulate my IRA from any legal issues in the future.

What happened for me is I got the title report back. There’s nothing going on, but we ran into this when we were selling outright a couple of vacant properties that had been quitclaim deeded multiple times. The title insurance companies and sometimes the municipalities themselves require a certificate of authorization showing that anyone who signed a deed in the past had the authority to do it. If this gentleman always signs for harbor and this gentleman always signs for the home opportunity, they still need a paper that shows it. Sometimes they even want to see the partnership agreements that establish what the title of that person is once and for all. I have a pile of quitclaim deeds on this property and we are waiting in total suspense to see if the title insurance company is going to make me go back to all of those companies and get that certificate of authority.

Understanding Investments: Sometimes there’s just crazy neighbors around your property who apparently sit at home and look out the windows all the time and look for ways to make trouble.

An interesting strategy though with the IRA is to put it into a trust or separate it for each property. It’s something I’m thinking to consider doing and we’ll have to find somebody who can do that. Do you know somebody already? I think you use a gentleman, Adam Bergman. Is that your IRA attorney that you use?

He set up my IRA. I don’t know that he would do that legal work. We should have him on to talk about all things checkbook IRA because that’s a big information black hole that we never see any of our peers talking about on their podcasts.

I’ve worked with a guy, Brian Eastman, in the past. I know he’s not an attorney, but I consider him a guru in regards to that stuff as well. He’s with Safeguard IRA & 401(k) Advisors. He helped me set up my Solo 401(k). On this episode for the main topic, we’re going to talk about questions that we’ve been getting over the past month or so from investors. It’s going to be a form of some questions that we’re going to answer back and forth covering a multitude of topics.

It’s a potpourri or as they say down in New Orleans, lagniappe. It’s a jambalaya of topics and ideas.

I’ll ask you the first question, Gail, that came up. How did you go about building your teams in a certain location? Who the team is and how you communicated or contacted and vetted them?

The big reason we need teams is that inevitably if you buy a contract for deeds and even if you buy foreclosures, you’re going to end up with a house that you want to exit in a way that preserves your return and your investment. If you got a contract for deeds back, the house is usually in bad shape. Usually, they’re not in good shape and you’re confronted with the decision, “Do I fix it up? Do I fix it up a little so I can sell it on a land contract? Do I try to sell it retail?” Even if you sell it retail, which seems simple, you could hire a realtor to guide you and lots of times they have fix-up people if it needs a little bit of cleaning or whatever. Oftentimes, there’s not enough profit in it to hire a realtor because realtors, in general, hate selling these properties. There’s not much commission for that. It’s tricky.

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Bottom line is you often end up needing to find someone to help you sell a house, someone to help you fix a house. Sometimes those two parts go smoothly and you have a new buyer that’s going to buy it on land contract. Who’s going to close that deal? Where are you going to send that person to sign the papers? Who’s going to take their down payment check? Minimally, I’d say you always end up having to find a contractor and in the case of our vacant properties where we did not fix them up at all, we didn’t need a contractor. What we did need was advertising the properties on Facebook and other places to get potential buyers over there. You have to have somebody who’s going to be your doorman, who’s going to run an open house for you. Be the one person that you give the lockbox code to and will stand there ready to go. Simple purchase agreements for anyone who expresses a lot of interest and who will get the phone numbers of everyone and make sure the place gets locked up nice and tight. It’s also someone you can send to check on it every once in a while to put a sign in the front yard.

It seems the best thing in the world would be if someone created a staffing agency with these people, but this is such low-level and it’s such a weird job description. I’ve asked people to go to Home Depot and buy blank lawn signs and big fat markers and make signs for me and put them in the yard. You need to find people who are available at a moment’s notice, eager to make a little bit of money and a willingness to do some things. Most of the things are not difficult, besides you ask people to go into a house and photograph it for you so you can see it. That can be a little scary if the neighbors are keeping an eye on the place, they don’t know who you are. They come over. In some places, it’s normal for people to carry rifles with them wherever they go. I have felt concerned at times asking people, “Can you go into my abandoned house and take a bunch of pictures for me? There’s a crazy neighbor but don’t worry about him.” We’ve had a lot of crazy neighbors, haven’t we Chris?

I’ve got many properties with crazy neighbors, from water department people to people telling you that the house is haunted, don’t buy it.

There are generally crazy neighbors who apparently sit at home and look out the windows all the time and look for ways to make trouble. There’s another category of crazy neighbor that we have met, which is the neighbor who wants to buy the house but they don’t want to pay a reasonable amount for it. They just want it. After you rejected their low ball offers, they dedicate themselves to making sure anyone else who comes over to look for it get scared away by their crazy behavior. We’ve been lucky that although we’ve had people do that and try to scare people away, our buyers have been quite brave. Apparently, they’re not worried about living next door to that crazy guy once they buy the place. It’s one thing to cheat death going over there once to look at it and getting away from the crazy neighbor, but moving in next to them. That would definitely give me pause if I was a buyer and a neighbor like that.

When should somebody start finding whether it is a realtor or maintenance property, a do-it-all guy? When should people start to solicit or find people?

I use Craigslist most of the time for fix-it people. I don’t know if you’ve ever used Craigslist in your own life but people there, it’s immediacy. I wouldn’t probably go onto Craigslist a month ahead of time to look for somebody. Anyone who’s available and is scanning Craigslist is probably someone who has little control over their schedule. If you’re looking a month down the road or two months while you’re doing forfeiture, you’re going to need them eventually. They might not even be living in the same town when you need them. The best way to get a reference on anyone is to ask someone who lives there, who has some connection to it.

If you knew that a house was in good enough condition and was worth enough that you were going to turn it over to a realtor. I would totally focus on finding a realtor and then see who they know who’s available to do things. You and I had a great experience with that in New Hampshire where the realtor had somebody come over to winterize a house for us. It turned out that guy who was inexpensive and the nicest person ever, we ended up using it for all stuff. He eventually did a huge cleanup for us and filled the dumpster. When he didn’t have enough room in the dumpster, he had all creative ways to get rid of other things, he held out a bunch of stuff that he knew he could get rid of so that they wouldn’t take up dumpster space. He went to quite a bit of trouble and it was sweet and I told him that if cloning were possible, I would want him everywhere in the country that I have a house.

Where I’ve had luck finding people is in Facebook groups. For example, I’ve got properties up in Northwest Indiana and there’s a Facebook group, NWI Real Estate Investors. Tom Olson, a note investor, is big in the group with a lot of fix and flippers, rehabbers and contractors in that area. You can go on there and if I needed somebody to put a roof on or something like that, I can either ask people or keyword search roof. Somebody’s probably already asked that question and there are five or seven references that are in there. I use Craigslist a lot as well. I use Craigslist for tasks that are things that don’t require a high level of quality. If I need somebody to change my locks, that’s Craigslist. If I need somebody to go shovel snow or do something laborious, Craigslist. If I need somebody to do a bathroom renovation or replace a roof, I typically don’t do Craigslist because I know people and I’ve had experiences in the past. People like that who said they’ve done this before but they never have and they’re just looking for money. Especially when you’re out of state, stuff like that, I make sure I use somebody who comes highly with a lot of references. The other thing too is to talk to other investors, other note investors on, “I heard that you bought notes or I know you buy notes in Indiana. Do you have a property manager or a realtor or a fixer-upper guy?” You’ll get firsthand experience from those people as well.

Understanding Investments: The best way to get a reference on anyone is to ask someone who lives there, who has some connection to it.

I’m trying to develop my Spider-Sense because I’ve had experiences all over the board. I’ve had terrible contractors off of Craigslist where it’s just cleaning out the house and painting it. I’m in the habit of checking people’s references. When you think about it, it’s like reviews online. It’s easy to fake that stuff like, “Why can’t I just give you my mom’s phone number? She will be Mrs. Happy Homemaker who you did a job for.” It’s really difficult. As well on Craigslist, I found a roofer in Indiana who was unbelievable. It was great and I found a property manager in Indiana by asking in a Facebook group and I got these people and they were terrible. They caused me to have $500 in code enforcement fines for not mowing the lawn. I wish I had a simple formula that always works. There are definitely some things that help. When I did Craigslist listings, I always put some direction in the body of the posting where I answer this with this and the subject line. When I get responses and that’s not in the subject line, I don’t even bother reading it. They’re not going to give you their best effort when they’re trying to get the job, what are they going to do with the job?

I liked the ones where I’ve put in there pays and I put in their PayPal only. The person replies back like, “What’s it pay?” I’m like, “You clearly didn’t read the ad,” or they’re like, “I can do this.” One of the things I use a lot for Craigslist is to have people take pictures for me of properties. I’ve used the same people in the past, but a lot of times these people are one-hit wonders. I’ll post the ad for $3 or $5 and have somebody run by. All of a sudden the person is like, “I’m here. How do I get paid?” I’m like, “PayPal.” “I don’t have PayPal.” I’m like, “The ad said in capital letters, ‘MUST ACCEPT PAYPAL.’”

I’m surprised at people looking for these low-level cash jobs that they don’t have everything, PayPal, Venmo, Cash App. There are a lot of people who don’t live their lives on computers and they’re not particularly comfortable with computer processes and it’s challenging. I forgot who I was saying they don’t want to hire people who don’t have enough cash to cover things. That’s another big warning when you have a small job for a contractor. That’s a bad sign. Someone asked us about deficiency judgments and how you handle that. What do you go after? What have you been able to get? Is it worth the effort?

First, a deficiency judgment is if you have a note that the borrower owed $100,000 and the property sold at auction for $50,000, that borrower technically is still on the hook for that other $50,000. In most states, you can go after them for what’s called a deficiency judgment, which is suing them. It’s a separate lawsuit where you sue them for that balance or that amount. Typically, I don’t see it often with note investors. The only time it might be worthwhile to consider doing one is if the owner had multiple properties that had a lot of equity. It’s a business decision. I have never collected on one. I don’t know how successful they are.

How many have you done?

One and it’s in process. I was going to do a second one on a property, but because of how the borrower left the property condition, at the end of the day the relationship started sour. Even though the woman has other rentals and so forth that I could technically probably collect on because it ended on good terms. I’m not going to and it’s a business decision. All of these are business decisions but for me, my good deed is I’m not going to take a woman nearing retirement age and go after her for something to try and fatten my pockets. It was a good deal for me and I’m not going to go after her. She did what she said and left the property in great condition. With deficiency judgments in most instances, there was a primary residence. They don’t have anything else. You can spend a few thousand dollars to get a judgment.

What you may end up doing is forcing them into bankruptcy, which is probably not something you want to go through or put somebody through. If it was an investor and it was a rental property for them and there was a business entity, that can be a different story where you can go collect or try to collect because they may have some assets. Several years ago, you were hearing people talk about strategic defaults which are like, “My house is upside down, I’m going to walk away so I don’t have to deal with it. Meanwhile, I’ve got $1 million sitting in the bank and I let $100,000 go.” Those people personally, I don’t feel sorry for. That’s the instance when one would be considered, but there are costs involved. You’re filing a lawsuit. You have to have an attorney. You’re paying an attorney $250, $300, $400, however many hundred dollars an hour to file this thing.

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It sits on there, that’s a lien. You’re not going to get it until they sell the property. As a lien, you could foreclose eventually.

It can be in first, second, third position. It would act as a lien on that property and it’s in default, you could foreclose. What you got to remember is the first would get paid off first, then the balance of whatever flat property comes back to you. Four properties, you can try and wipe out all four to make sure you get all your money. I’m not sure how it would work if they do one. I’m guessing they do one at a time until you get your money back. You can force that. My guess is in most instances they probably would settle. Somebody called me up and they owe me $50,000 on a deficiency and said, “I’ll settle this thing for a number.” They probably would look towards trying to get it settled. If you could get that money immediately versus over the long haul.

If you’ve got a deficiency judgment, they will slap it on every property that a person owns. Do you have to pick one?

First, your attorney will say, “You have this judgment,” and then you can say, “They own these two other properties. Can we put the judgments on those properties?” They have to go record that deficiency judgment at the court or at the recording office of that jurisdiction. You can do it at one or five or ten properties. You can do it on as many as you want.

Say they own the property free and clear, but there are other liens on it for taxes. Maybe there’s a mechanics lien because they’re used to stiffing people. Would you be behind all of these things, your lien? Do you take present?

You’d be behind or priority would go by date of recording, knowing it’s not for sale.

It’s a lot to think about in deciding to go forward. You’d need really good information about it. You’d need title reports on all these properties to decide whether it’s worth it. I’ve known many investors who’ve had situations where the defaulted loan is on a rental property and the person is just collecting rent and not paying their mortgage. That is aggravating enough. I could see wanting to do the deficiency judgment, but I haven’t done one either though I’m pretty sure a property that I’m taking back in Georgia is a rental. She’s using it as a rental. Blood from a stone, in this case, I’d say. She must have other properties because we can’t find her. We’re going through an expensive publication process to let her know that she’s in hot water with us.

How do you handle or what happens if there is an insurance claim on a property and you have the property covered by force-placed insurance?

Understanding Investments: Never pay the last payment until you get a full set of photographs of everything that they’ve done.

This did happen to me. This was a pleasant surprise because force-placed insurance is minimal. It’s important for us particularly on contract for deeds because it gives you usually $1 million of liability. You sleep better having that. When it came to an actual claim, I was skeptical about what it would cover. I had a house where a tree fell through the roof and did $10,000 worth of damage because it didn’t just go through the roof. Stuff fell on me, broke the air conditioner, ripple effects all over the house. The siding was torn off and is a mess. Surprise, they didn’t give me the full amount because there was depreciation but they gave me $8,500 on a $10,000 and it was enough to get everything squared away. I was extremely excited about that. I have had a total loss. I did have a house burn down. Early in my note career, I thought this house was worth in the $50,000s but because I was a new investor, I had only been able to get a $25,000 policy on it. That still would have given me a handsome return on my investment, but it turned out that the borrower had her own insurance. I never had the experience of finding out what my force-placed insurance would have done.

Some people may have never been through an insurance claim. Borrower calls the servicer says, “A tree fell on the house.” Do you then call who you have your force-placed insurance policy with and then they send out an adjuster to look at it? How did that process work or go?

It’s as if you had a claim at your own house. In this case, the borrower had my phone number because if you don’t do full servicing, they give your phone number to any borrower that calls in with a problem. My borrower called them and told them the news and then they gave her my number. She called and that was how we met. I hadn’t even had the thing for long so she was massively relieved to find out that although I was the new lender, that I did have insurance on the property. It worked out great, very professional. We think of force-placed insurance as some low value, fly by night thing.

Mine is through Lloyd’s of London. A lot of them are. They’re major companies and very professional. The only thing is that you have to be cognizant of their rules. In the case of the total loss, we were talking to the borrower’s insurance company and going back and forth. Meanwhile, the clock was ticking and we got past 90 days. You have to report anything within 90 days of it happening if you want any result from your insurance, at least in that case that was true. I would always find out how much time you have to make a report if you’re filing a claim. Do I need title insurance? I’m taking this property out of my IRA and I’m titling it to me and then to me and my husband. There are no liens on the property. Like most of the CFDs that get quitclaim deeded over and over again, there was a sheriff sale way in the back. It’s gone from entities like ours over and over again. Do I need it? Do I have to be worried about a title claim?

For your property, if it’s got the clean title and you own it outright, it’s up to you. I would say you don’t because at this point in time, no one ever goes to dispose of it. The purchaser may want to get title insurance at that point in time, especially if they’re getting a loan on it. From an overall standpoint on the notes I buy, I like to see if they have the title insurance. It’s something I typically will ask to confirm. I bought notes with title insurance and some that didn’t have it. I have had to do two title insurance claims. One of them was my Flint property, which saved me from doing a quiet title, which would have cost about $2,500. The reason being was the borrower was transferring properties in and out of her trust when she was buying them. The recordings got recorded backward. What happened was the property went from somebody to her trust to her and then she took the mortgage out, which was the mortgage I ended up buying. The way it got recorded was it recorded as the seller to her trust and then the mortgage. They recorded them out of order. It didn’t get picked up and it got picked up when we were going for on the foreclosure on the property. First, we had to find the title insurance company, which the way I found them was on the mortgage that was recorded in the corner. It had a stamp of who the title company was. One thing to look for if you can’t figure out who it was or if it had its check recorded documents because you’ll find a lot of information and names on there of people who may be able to know. It might know who the closing company was who recorded it. It might know who had title insurance or if there is title insurance. That went through that process and then we got in touch with the title company who took about a month and finally came back and said, “We’ll ensure this,” and they got it taken care of. It delayed the foreclosure for some time. If I had to go to a quiet title, it would have cost me several thousand dollars, plus it would have also delayed the foreclosure by about another few months. That was one title insurance claim I had.

The other one was an old mortgage never got discharged. Person refinanced, they pay off the old mortgage. The prior lender never filed the pay off on it. The mortgage I bought had the title insurance. It was part of when I was buying this note. It had the agreement with the seller that it’s a first position note, this other one and they’re like, “There’s the title.” When you look at it, if there’s title insurance by a lender who’s financing it and it’s a major lender, they’re paying off that other one and it’s just the paperwork got missed. It was one of those things where, “Title company, can you go chase down the prior lender to get that taken care of?” which they did. Those were the two claims. That’s a pretty common one that you’ll see sometimes or not common, but you see it once in a while is somebody refinances from an old mortgage and gets a new one and that old one that gets paid off. Once in a while, you’ll see that it’s not recorded that was paid off. You’ll have to chase down some paperwork, but if you can’t get it resolved sometimes in this title insurance, you go to them and pay $100 if you need to and they get it taken care of for you.

I experienced that when I was doing due diligence on a contract for deed in Michigan. The title report showed that there was no satisfaction of mortgage way back when. You think like, “The thing I’ve been deeded several times since then.” It’s one of the difficult aspects of quitclaim deeds. There’s little accountability and sometimes little thought and research. In a way, I always feel like, “Why am I worried about this when no one else has been worried about this?” The answer is for doing JVs or if we’re buying them for IRAs or whatever. You don’t want to be the one that the buck stops with after all this stuff. I was looking before I even bought the thing to find the satisfaction of mortgage. In this case, the bank that had issued the original mortgage that didn’t have the satisfaction had been acquired three times. The latest acquisition was one of these giant banks that you think, “You’re one small record is in there somewhere. There’s a monolith.” It turned out you’re right. Finding the title company that did the latest transaction, I figured they must have found the satisfaction of mortgage for the previous mortgage. If not, they must be covering it. Does the title insurance only last with that borrower? If that borrower gets foreclosed, the title insurance is no longer valid? Does the title insurance insure the title forever?

I thought it ran with that mortgage, the note. I thought it was tied to that note. Some people get title insurance and they don’t have a mortgage on it. I view it as that policy continues to run from that point in time prior. It ties to the type of deed that gets you transferred. If it’s quitclaim deed title insurance, if I bought it now, something happens in a year from now. That was an issue from before I got my title insurance that would cover it. If it was something from six months after that, they wouldn’t cover it. I had a mortgage and I quitclaimed the mortgage to you because I wasn’t paying it and then you quitclaimed it to somebody else and then somebody went and got a loan on it. That’s a title nightmare because at first, it’s really a second note that’s on that property. If somebody thought it was a first or tried to sell it as a first, that wouldn’t be a title claim because that occurred after the policy was obtained.

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In my case, I don’t have a choice to not get it because I am going to be seeking financing to renovate this house. I’m sure the bank is totally going to want it. Do you have Notes and Bolts for us? Mine’s pretty simple. We’re talking about hiring people to do things, particularly fix-it people. Whether you get them off of Craigslist and roll the dice on it or whether with a recommendation or even used your preservation companies. Your preservation companies supervising a contractor for you and paying the big bucks to get it done that way. Never pay the last payment until you get a full set of photographs of everything that they’ve done. I have through inattention and haste in a couple of instances paid fully before I had the final photos, only to find the place was not looking the way I thought it was. It’s hard to sue people at a distance. Take them to small claims court as much as you wish for the vengeance to do that. Everyone is more cooperative and helpful and friendly when they don’t have their check yet. Get the pictures.

If you’re trying to get an idea on a property if it’s occupied and curious what the inside looks like or trying to reach out and get in touch with a borrower, so forth so on. One thing that I may or may have not done in the past is ordered pizza for them and had a pizza delivery person go by. Tip them well to text me when they’re done, when the person opened the door if the property is completely trashed or it doesn’t look bad. Get a feel for what’s going on. I heard somebody did it for a friend.

Do you have your own person and he goes and gets a pizza? Do you call a pizza place and tell the guy, “When you deliver it, I want you to say this to the people who answer the door?”

Somebody I know tried that. It wasn’t as successful but if you have somebody who went and took photos of the property on Craigslist for you and they’re like, “It’s a little messy on the inside.” It’s like, “I’ll give you an extra $25 plus I’ll pay for the pizza if you go pick one up and drop it off. Let me know what the inside looks like.” At one point in time, thinking of doing also was putting a letter in the pizza. You send a doorknocker out. Sometimes they won’t answer doorknocker and you say, “I need you to reach out to me. Please call us back so we can discuss.” It’s not a demand letter. It’s a reach out letter.

One of the things I was thinking at one point in time was to have that taped to the top of the pizza box. If they took the pizza and opened it, there it is. I knew they got it. I’ve only done it when the door knocker typically has not been successful, which I’ve had in the past where people are home. They look out the window and they’re like, “I’m not coming to the door,” or they’ll answer the door, “Who is it?” and the person’s, “I’m with XYZ Preservation Company. We have this letter for you.” They’re creative ways to try and accomplish certain tasks.

This wraps up our 25th episode. I didn’t realize we were at the magic number. Thank you, Chris. It’s been a blast. Thank you to our audience. We look forward to the next 25. We got a lot of ideas as we used now about what it is that you’re interested in.

Our whole goal is to do good deeds for our borrowers. To be impact investors, but also assist other investors out there on anything and everything possible we can try and assist on or to try and make life easier for you.

Go out and do some good deeds.

Thank you.