GDNIP Ep 13: Doing Due Diligence Before Bidding On Assets

When you get a call or an e-mail from a seller that says, “Your offers are accepted on these three assets,” what do you do? Chris and Gail stress the importance of doing due diligence when you’re bidding on assets. They share what you should look out for when bidding for assets and what to do during the initial phase when your bids are accepted. They also touch on why it’s vital to find an agent or a realtor to get eyes on the properties and other musts in the whole process.

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Gail Anthony Greenberg & Chris Seveney Doing Due Diligence Before Bidding On Assets

Doing Due Diligence Before Bidding On Assets

We should take a moment and thank everybody. We’ve been so flattered and touched by the response. We haven’t set up the mechanism for everybody to talk to us directly, but we’re very findable on Facebook and at our website at Good Deeds Note Investing. My email address on there is [email protected] and Chris is [email protected]. We would love to hear from you. Your suggestions, comments, keep it coming. It’s nice to be sharing with the community.

If there are topics as well that people want to hear about, we’re more than happy to discuss those as well. Thank you, everybody. I appreciate it as well. I got one from somebody who I didn’t even know and said, “I’ve been listening to the podcast. It’s great information. Thank you so much.” We appreciate that because we’re again trying to do a good deed by helping individuals, investors, and IRA investors out there understand what note investing is.

We’re new podcasters so we’re figuring this out as we go along. We feel like we’re talking to each other and talking to ourselves. It’s always a delightful surprise to find out there are people out there enjoying it.

Gail, let’s jump into what just happened.

Regular followers of our podcast know that I have a house for sale in Indiana. I was amazed when I was approached by the 60-year-old grandson of the fellow who had built the house. He came and was excited about it. It looked like he was going to buy it, which was the most beautiful, as you say, Hallmark story. It was a great movie. I was already casting it in my mind. It turns out he has a heart condition and his wife is afraid that he will kill himself doing everything in that house protecting it, which is a very legitimate concern. Unfortunately, they are not buying the house.

Sorry to hear that. Maybe there’s somebody else who has some history at the house that can come through and acquire it from you.

The neighbor from across the street, he no longer lives across the street, but he’s coming to look at it. We already have another couple. It has a giant garage 24×30 feet with an alley entrance and everything. It looks like this couple, the husband, owns a lot of heavy equipment and stuff. He cannot wait to have that garage. Things are looking good. I’ll let you know.

Life is short. Do not look at anything twice. Click To Tweet

I had a follow-up of a hearing for a forfeiture in Ohio that was delayed. Right before the hearing, I got a phone call from my representative, who I found on either Craigslist or Facebook or I forget where.

Your legal representative, this is a guy who was attending the hearings for you.

In Ohio, when somebody attends a hearing, you’ll have an attorney that represents you legally but you have to have a company representative who will state, “Yes, the loan is delinquent.” Essentially, I give that person the reinstatement notice with the pay history. If the court asked, they admit yes on behalf of the investor the loan is delinquent.

We should clarify for everyone, the company representative literally can be a person you hire off of Craigslist the day before. It’s amazing considering that the courts require someone to come. It’s amazing how little they care who comes.

I would caution against doing that though because the borrower walked in with a $3,000 check to reinstate the loan. Guess who has my check?

The Craigslist guy? You can require that the attorney take any random checks or cash that get handed over.

The attorney did not want to take it. He recommends that it goes to the company. I made sure that the check was made out to the servicer. I joked that I did find the person.

That guy is on his way to Cancun.

Bidding On Assets: The checks should not be made out to you or your entity; it should be made out to your servicer.

The text messages sent to me was, “Can I meet you in the Bahamas to give you the check?”

Ohio winters are very bitter. I don’t think we can blame him if he takes off with your money.

Joking aside, this is somebody from Facebook who’s in the area. It’s a contractor who I had been talking with for four to six months and been trying to work some deals with this individual.

You feel you have a trust relationship and he’s not going to take your money.

I never met this guy. I spoke to him. First, the attorney said the check wasn’t made out to anybody. I’m like, “Can you please make sure that it’s made out to Madison Management?” The checks should also not be made out to you or your entity, it should be made out to your servicer. If not to your or your entity, then you have to cash it or you have to sign it over. I did that early on and realized that to try and get it squared away in the system with the servicer. It’s a pain. Make sure the checks are always made to the servicer.

I had a heart-stopping moment like that when my first contract for deed burned down and the borrower had insurance. When it was time for the insurance company to issue the check for $110,000, $42,000 of which was owed to me as the lender, they were going to give the check to the borrower, which they have to because she took out the insurance. I was surprised it was no intermediary. They didn’t automatically send out two checks, one to me and one to her. It was all going to get her. It was up to her to give me my share. That was a very nervous, nail-biting few days for me.

I know we want to discuss a part two from the last episode, where we talk about bidding on assets and roll into a little bit on some due diligence and some of the things that we do, some ninja tactics as a note investor that we do when we’re doing our due diligence to try and get a feel for making sure that it’s the right asset.

We talked about what we do when we get a tape. I said that I make extra columns immediately, one for what the bid price is going to be based on what I know that seller normally accepts whether that’s 40%, 50%, 60%. I do a column for return on investment. That presumes if I get it at that price, what my gross return will be before any servicing costs. I also create a column for notes because if I’m going to spend time looking up taxes and looking at the houses, I want to write down everything in that column. You end up seeing the same tapes over and over again and you like, “I’ve seen that address before but I don’t remember. Let me go look up everything all over again.” No, you don’t want to do that. Life is short. Do not look at anything twice.

After a year, you need to lower your price. It's not selling at that price. Click To Tweet

You mentioned getting the same tapes and stuff. What I’ll do sometimes is I keep those old tapes and I’ll copy and paste the addresses into the new tape in that same column. I’ll do that conditional feature where you can check for duplicates and highlight some also. I know which ones are new to that tape and which ones I’ve seen before.

You have your files you’re looking at and you can search in all your files and folders for a particular street name or street name with address, street number. It will show you all the places where it pops up. There’s a tape circulating that I’ve literally seen twelve times. It keeps circling the planet and never going anywhere.

The seller is asking the same price for the twelfth time in a row.

What is the deal? In a way, I admire people who had such belief that something is possible. After a year, you need to lower your price. It’s not selling at that price. Give up.

You get a call or an email from the seller. He says, “Your offers are accepted on these three assets.” What do you do?

Time to dig. I always look up taxes and try to find out as many of the ugly things as possible before I even bid because as we all know, no seller having accepted the bid ever wants to lower it. It’s so hard.

I’ve had it once. During that initial phase, you do not spend any money.

Bidding On Assets: It’s after your bid is accepted is when you start doing your due diligence.

Do not spend any money. That doesn’t seem an important rule when you’re starting out and you only look at a few. Eventually, you’re going to start looking at a lot all at once. You’ve got to be sure before you open the pocketbook.

It’s not until you get an accepted offer is when a home inspection on a home putting an offer in. You don’t go spend money on somebody waiting for your offer to get counted or accepted. It’s after it’s accepted is when you start doing your due diligence.

You’ve got some accepted offers, prices that you’re willing to pay maybe. The first thing that we do is not order a title for it. It used to be we order a title for it. You did too, Chris. The first thing we do is find somebody to go look at the house and make sure it’s there, first of all. It’s a general idea of how the house itself looks, the condition, and what the neighborhood is like. We’ve already looked up the neighborhood on Trulia to make sure it’s not a high-crime neighborhood. We’re not concerned so much about whether there’s gunfire in the streets at this stage, but we do need to see if the roof is caving in, if the siding is coming off. The windows are broken. I bid on one in Ohio. The windows were open in the dead of winter. There’s a whole bunch of plumbing that may need to be replaced. What do you do once you have an accepted offer? Chris, what is your first move?

Similar to what you’ve mentioned. I get the eyes on the property. I get somebody to go out snap some photos for me to take a look at it. It’s the same thing as you get eyes on it and get eyes on the neighborhood because sometimes Trulia might not be correct as well. I’ll get that done. Depending on the note or the CFD and what the numbers are on it, I’ll either talk to an agent to get on over the phone type or I’ll send them pictures and have them run a CMA for me.

What is a CMA?

A Comparative Market Analysis, another term people use is a broker price opinion or BPO is another lingo term. Those typically can run between $100 and $150. If it’s a real rural area, up to $200. If you can get somebody to go out and take some pictures for you, you might be able to find an agent to look at the pictures. Go on the computer and run some comps for you. A similar option I use is Data Tree. On there, if I get the photos, I can go run and pick houses in a certain radius. That’s the same thing that they do. It’s houses that sold within a certain radius over a certain period of time at a certain size. I can click a button and it will give me those sales comps. I can then go on Zillow and look at what those houses look like on the inside to see if it’s been completely updated. Then that is not a comp because I would bet 9,999 times out of 10,000 that the house with the note that’s not performing is not going to be updated.

How much does a report from Data Tree cost? Do you have to have a big signup fee and a big signup process to be a member of Data Tree?

No seller having accepted the bid ever wants to lower it. Click To Tweet

I have a business account with them. I can have subaccounts under my account so people could sign-up through me for a very low cost.

What do you think that cost would be roughly?

$20 a month.

What is the AVM?

There’s an AVM. There’s another one called a total report, which gives the sales in the area and a bunch of other things. They’re around $10.

If you have access to that, why do you even bother calling a realtor to do something?

To get to know the area a little better. Sometimes they also will do it for nothing. If it’s a house I’m thinking of taking back or there is a good chance of taking back, I want to start building that relationship early on with them because eventually, I’m probably going to need to market that property at some point in time. I’d like to have somebody early on and not at the last second scramble to try and find an agent because in today’s markets, trying to find an agent who wants to work with investors typically on distressed homes is very difficult.

Bidding On Assets: Trying to find an agent who wants to work with investors typically on distressed homes is very difficult.

We should do a podcast about how to find an agent like that because that is rare. That is the pink elephant of the note investing jungle.

The other thing too is if I have a JV partner, they might be more comfortable seeing something from an agent. If the numbers are way off, whereas if the seller thinks it’s worth 75 and my numbers come in at 50. If I hand them a report from Data Tree, they’re going to be like, “That’s great. That’s a report.” If I give them something from a local agent, it would carry more weight.

You and I talk about this a lot. I’m up in the air about what I feel is the value of a realtor review of a house. Particularly these contracts for deed houses are very low value. You say not the kind of properties that they want to put time into marketing. Unless a house has real retail value to sell to a retail buyer, realtors look at them all and think they’re crap. They’ll say, “It’s worth $10,000 or $15,000.” I don’t know.

We definitely have to do a podcast on that because I could digress about some situations I have going on. I want to stay focused on this. You know me, Gail, I digress all the time.

We try to get some idea of the value. For me, whatever the unpaid balance is on a contract for deed, I figure that’s the value. If the seller before me sold it for that, I feel like even if I end up getting this house back, I can sell it for that again. These houses were not beautiful when they were sold to the current borrower who is not performing. How hard would it be to find another borrower to pay that price? I realize that that may not appeal to everyone as a theory of how to do this. We do that. Assuming someone goes, “Yes, the house is there. Yes, the neighborhood looks decent. Everything is good.” I order a title report. Is that your next move?

Yes.

It’s time to find out what’s wrong with this house on the financial side, code enforcement, liens and the taxes that are due. I have to caution never assume that the title report has everything. A code enforcement fine that is not yet a lien will not show up usually on a title report.

First of all, find somebody to go look at the house and make sure it's there. Click To Tweet

We use ProTitleUSA for our title reports that you can for additional monies pay them. It’s around $35 to have them do that next step of doing county liens or trash liens and stuff like sewer liens.

They’ll look at the water bills and stuff too.

It’s not something they promote heavily that they should probably do promote, we’ll promote it for them. The challenge with it, to be honest, is it takes seven to ten days with most sellers running close within that time. What I’ve worked with them is if I don’t have time to make those phone calls, I tell them, “Give me the preliminary report first. Send a subsequent report for that component.”

I ordered for $75 the full water bill, sewer bill on something and I never received it. It’s tricky. Fortunately, in most places you can call about those things and the friendly people in code enforcement and the utilities will give you those numbers. In some places, you can’t. I have discovered asked for a list of liens on a property from the Recorder’s Office. They will be like, “We don’t do that.” It’s a liability issue for them because if they miss something and then you complain, it could be quite a mess.

Gail, we talked getting eyes on the property, which is a must. Ordering a title report, which is also a must. What about servicing comments and pay history?

Those are absolutely key and props to you, you taught me to do that. I never even thought about the fact that that would be available. It’s like the “Dear Diary,” of a note. You find out all the intimate details of what’s going on. We got a note where one of the compelling reasons to buy it is that we knew from the servicing notes that the borrower for the whole two years he’s been in there has been questioning whether he can afford the place. At one point, he was begging for them to take it back. They didn’t for some reason. When you had someone go over to look at the property, the neighbor came out and offered to buy it for a price that was considerably more than what we needed to pay to get the note. We’re going into it understanding that the great likelihood is that we’re going to end up owning this house. The guy wants to leave. We think we’ve got a buyer that we haven’t talked to him yet.

So far in that story, we did have the person sign the house back over to us. We’re in the process of giving that borrower time to find a new place. There are certain arrangements made. For me, I’m not throwing somebody out of a house around the holidays. We gave this individual plenty of time to find a place, save up a little bit of money in the meantime too. Give him this part of the deal, not have to pay rent during that time. We’re working with them because the last thing you want to do is be difficult with them because you’ve got to remember they’re living in the place. If you upset them in some way, shape or form, they can cause a lot of damage which will cost you a lot more in the long run. Also, it’s a good deed of being able to assist somebody for an extra month or whatever it is. It’s not going to kill anybody.

Bidding On Assets: The challenge with pay history is it can get extremely confusing reading them.

We initially gave this guy two months to move out because he had no plans and didn’t know where he wanted to go. He ended up negotiating. He is a pretty good negotiator. He ended up negotiating an extra month from us, which that’s fine. He spent winter in New England so it’s reasonable.

To step back a little bit and talk about servicing comments. When you use a third-party servicer, they keep all these notes on all the conversations, the time they tried to call and what happened during that call.

What phone numbers are good? That’s a handy piece of information.

Phone numbers, emails and if they’re not living in the property anymore, an address where are can be found. It’s a diary of information that the servicer kept. One thing I’ll mention to people is if you do buy that note, when it gets transferred, take some critical information out of servicing notes and take those and give them to your servicer. What happens is this could be fifteen pages and your new servicer from what I found is not reading these or they may. They’ll be like, “Do you have an active phone number to skip tracers like 400 numbers on it?” It’s like, “Here’s a servicing note. I have this number so try this one.”

They don’t read them. Think about it. You start dating somebody and then their ex comes to you and says like, “Let me tell you everything about them.” It’s like do you even think. You’re like, “That was you. You are not that great in this relationship, but I’m going to have a relationship with this person and it will be whatever it is.”

The other thing that’s interesting with that is when the loan gets transferred, I’ve seen in many instances where the borrower has given a story about the prior servicer. With the new servicer, it’s a completely different story of, “The prior service agreed to only accept this much a month for these many months and starting on this date.” You walk in the servicing comments and it will be like, “It was $500 a month for six months and then a loan mod is what is talked about.” All of a sudden, that’s $500 a month is only $300 a month and it’s for three months before I get a loan mod. It’s like anything. It’s like your child is going to daddy asking for something. Daddy is saying something and then going to mommy hoping basically, “Daddy said this.”

It’s a united front.

An agent who wants to work with investors on distressed homes is the pink elephant of the note investing jungle. Click To Tweet

The one thing I struggled with, Gail, when I started out was wasn’t the servicing comments, it was the pay history.

I still can’t read some of them.

The challenge with the pay history is if you’ve never seen one, we should probably put one up on the website for people to see is because payments might get made and some payments might be, if there’s additional escrow made, the payment was made but it went to escrow, not the principal and interest. It can get extremely confusing reading them. I’d say ask a servicer sometimes whoever you use, “Can you review this so I can get an understanding of what it means?” I remember I was confused. I’m pulling my hair out. I’m trying to understand what was what on this thing and be like, “Are they paying or are they not paying?”

The only thing that works for me like there will be all these different categories and you see the numbers moved around and being attributed to this that the other thing. There are subtractions and additions. It’s ridiculous. I look for the payment. There was a payment here, whatever you did with it. I want to know if they paid.

That’s what I’ve started doing is put it using the filter in Excel. Here’s a Regular Payment column, click on it, show those and you can see when all those payments were made.

I would like to caution people if you ever think about buying a note that has not been serviced by a third party but by the seller himself, you have to be careful because all you have is that person’s word that this is what happened. There’s no independent verification of anything. You could inadvertently buy a non-performing note that someone tells you have been performing like every month. For yourself, I sometimes hear people say and we all think this at times, “Can I service it myself? The servicers are getting in the way and messing things up.” You have to think of yourself. If you want to sell this thing eventually, what a potential buyer is going to feel if you’re telling them, “Here are my records. Here’s my spreadsheet of what’s been going on with this note. You can trust me.”

The other thing too is if it’s in a state that needs to be licensed and they’re not licensed. If there’s ever a dispute, you’re most likely going to lose.

Bidding On Assets: Make sure everything is in original because sometimes you may get a note that was scanned.

I never thought about the fact. Some services are licensed in every state but some are not. That has come up with Madison in a couple of states. Were they not licensed in Michigan for a while there in New Jersey?

In certain states, you don’t have to be licensed. It’s certain other criteria. I know at one point in time, Michigan paused for a little bit because it was more with some of the laws. I’m not sure, honestly I don’t invest in New Jersey, but that’s one thing to check because a lot of the services aren’t licensed in all the states. I know there’s a company out of the Northwest that does performing CFDs. They do some Midwest states and some out west but anything on the East Coast they don’t. They’re at a decent price. I’ve heard good things about them. Evergreen is the name of the company, but I haven’t used them personally so I can’t recommend them. I’ve heard good things about them. If you have performing CFD, their service is like, “We send out the invoices and collect payments. That’s it.” You do everything else that goes nonperforming all on you. It’s a low-cost provider. It’s the same thing. They’ve only licensed in certain states Madison, certain states. Some of the bigger ones like FCI or Security National.

FCI is all the states. We’ve got the title report. Things are looking very good. We should not be the only ones looking at the title report and the collateral. Since I get the title report and I feel pretty confident that I’m interested still in the asset, I send the collateral file and the title report to an attorney for a full review. You should wait until you have the title report because they need to be able to reference things and also look at things that the abstractor will find that aren’t in the title report. They’re in the collateral report.

The attorney will typically look at the chain and if there are any potential issues in it. The other thing I do for short money is I use Orion, which is a financial group, which is part of MetaSource. They’re out of Texas. That’s where I keep my collateral. What they’ll do for $40 is they’ll also go through and check all of the assignments to make sure they’re all in proper order. If there’s a power of attorney that was missed somewhere along the line. They’ll put together on a forum a nice template that says, “This is good. This isn’t good. This is what you’ll need.” Sometimes the attorneys look at it more holistically from, “This is a problem or there’s much in liens. This wasn’t done.” Sometimes they may miss something. The assignment said, “The name of a company is called ABC Company.” On assignment it said, “The ABC Company.” On another one it said, “ABC Company.” That can be a problem. They’ll do that. What’s nice about that is they give me a report. I hand that report to the seller and say, “Fix this as part of the deal. This needs to be fixed.”

That’s great to have that before you buy because you have all your leverage before you buy. Once you hand over the money, all those problems are yours alone to solve. Do you use Orion for contracts for deed or for regular notes?

Everything. For the contract for deeds, I don’t have them do that review. For notes, I do. For the contract for deeds, it’s do you have the assignment, do you have the deed? I can do that myself with notes. Sometimes they can get pretty tricky especially with a lot of these institutions that may have been bought out in the last few years and they had power of attorneys. What’s needed in certain states for power of attorneys? For me, I don’t want to learn that side of things. I want to know enough to be dangerous. For me, it would take me an hour to figure it out easily where for them, it’s $40. They do it again on the intake side. They do it on the soft collateral, which is the email version. When the originals come in as part of their review, they’ll make sure everything is in original because sometimes you may get a note that was scanned, but then they get in, it’s not the original. That’s when they wave the flag again and say, “We don’t have the original note. What’s going on?”

At that point, you are on your own. You’ve done at least all that you can to protect yourself. There’s no reason to beat yourself up at that point. We do have a few people who are interested in the progress of our vacant country houses. At this point, we’re like two and two. We’re selling two of them for a very nice price relative to our purchase cost. The other two, we’re doing lease options with people who want to fix them up. In one case, one is a flipper and he wants to fix it up, rent it while he’s fixing it. He has an option to buy it. When he sells it, our option will be the first thing that gets paid off. He’ll get profits beyond that.

Unless a house has real retail value to sell to a retail buyer, realtors look at them all and think they're crap. Click To Tweet

It has been a total shock to me working with the two title companies on these two outright purchases.

We wrote very owner-friendly purchase contracts where we put it on the buyers that they have to pay all the closing costs. If they want title insurance, they have to get it. It has involved so much time and energy to work with these title companies not because the title companies are so demanding, but the title insurance people, they have looked at little quitclaim deeds that we pass around like dealing cards in a Poker game without a lot of concern. They have questioned whether the guy who is the managing partner of Harbour Properties is allowed to sign the deed or not. They have detected minute things that have to be corrected in these deeds. They’ve questioned whether the vice-president of National Asset Mortgage is allowed to sign the deed. That always have three deeds before us.

It’s been crazy making all the minutia that they’re questioning and the corrections they’re demanding. It’s normal when you’re selling that you have set the seller house. If you’re an entity, you have to hand over your articles, your ENIN, your corporate articles, your operating agreement, a Certificate of Good Standing, all these things and show that you’re not a crook or whatever, you are a real thing. They ask for them for every quitclaim deed, every entity that has been part of any quitclaim deed since there was a warranty deed on one of these properties. I’ve been asking the people who sold it to us and the people who sold it to them. I don’t know if they considered an intrusion at all, but I’m sure they’re asking themselves like, “Why are these being requested? I’ve never heard this before.”

I’m learning a lot with title companies and in our Notes and Bolts section, I’ll give a little tip in that comment to that. It’s funny about the houses and stuff because I have eight houses, the two with you and six other ones that are on the market. It’s looking at least four of them, I’m going to close on with title companies and stuff and the dealings with them you’ve been handling. Thank you, Gail. These two and I’ve got four of my own that I’m trying to work through and stuff. The stuff that comes back and forth from them is very interesting. I’ll say no to title companies are absolutely the same.

We’ve finished our discussion of what we do when we get a tape, so why don’t we jump right into Notes and Bolts? Tell us what you have to warn us about these title companies.

It’s interesting because when I had bought a house, an investment property, you see these companies especially wholesalers and stuff saying, “You have to use my title company.” I’m like, “No way. I’ll use whoever I want.” I understand why now. I have a property that a national firm has been researching the title for four weeks and can’t give us an answer on something. I called up a title company who has been used to close deals from the ones I’ve bought in the same state. It was a CFD and was the original seller from five years ago with somebody who they do business with. I said, “Can you close this deal?” They want a quiet title and all this other stuff. “Can you ensure this?” He is like, “I can assure it and get it closed in a week because it’s a cash deal.”

Meanwhile, this national firm has been taking for weeks waiting for something from the county and everything else because there was a tax sale. In the tax sale if it’s not and five years, there can still be title claims. Some title companies will not insure against that because of the risk they’re willing to take. Others will take that risk because it’s so minimal. My tidbit or note and bolt is if you’re selling a property, use your title company if I have one. I’d say get one first. I can give you the names of a few who do a lot of work nationwide. Make sure you use your own because if not, it can slow down the process because a lot of these title companies that this person may be using are not familiar with a contract for deeds.

Bidding On Assets: When you get the power of attorneys from players who a lot of people buy from, make sure you get a copy so you have it for the file.

I have a tip that piggybacks right on that. I was going to say start early and don’t presume because it’s a cash sale that you can wrap it up in a week. I’ve had this experience I would say to somebody right from the get-go, “What are you going to need from me?” My answer to you, “Do you need anything from the previous entities like what is your deal?” Everything has happened at the last minute. We have thought three times on one of these that we are okay. We’re clear to close. There will be “No, we still need a power of attorney from this one person. We need a partnership agreement from this company.” It’s piecemeal because they have their checklists and they look organized. Like many people, they don’t sit down right at the beginning and make the big list of what is needed and communicate it to you, need it out of them early on.

One thing, Gail, that popped in my head when you’re bringing that up that I’ll add and something we should do as well is when we get the power of attorneys from a NAM and Harbour and some of these other players, who a lot of people buy from, we should make sure we get a copy so we have it for the file. Next time we get a question of, “Can John Doe as Vice President of Harbour sign off on these things?” We already have that document that we can send instead of Jason, Erika or somebody else down for that information.

That’s an excellent idea. A lot of them have been sent to me electronically so I do have them. These people want originals, Chris. Everyone wants fresh copy signs, colorful trashy leftovers.

I have a color photocopier, Gail. It looks good. We could start selling them.

Thanks for the chat. I hope everyone got a little something out of it. Please let us know what you are thinking and wanting to know. We will be launching our Q&A, which I hope is going to be weekly. It’s difficult because Chris is such an in-demand guy both at work and at home. We shall do our best. We’ll announce it soon.

I touch on that if somebody has questions that they want to be a part of that, please reach out to us as well. Thank you, all. Reminder to go out do some good deeds. Follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play. We also now have a Facebook page as well at Good Deeds Note Investing Podcast. Go there, like it, we’ll be sharing documents on that site, as well as recordings, videos and other useful information.

Goodbye.

Take care.