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Posted almost 10 years ago

10.03.14 Rent money going toward meth?

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Some may remember the young family that moved into one of our duplexes in the middle of September. No rental history, their parents are tired of housing them, he is a registered sex offender, they have new jobs, and their grandma co-signed.

Since move in two things have happened. First, they approached us that they would be late with rent. The excuse is that take home pay is way less than they were expecting. We’d almost feel bad for them, except we did have a discussion about that very topic. Second, we’ve already had neighbor complaints about them. Not about the sex offender status, but about them possibly being meth users. They have been seen hanging out at a house that is supposedly going to be busted soon as a meth house.

Here are some options as I see them:

A. Tell them we have had neighbor complaints, that we suspect they could be violating our crime addendum, and maybe even park on the street some evenings/nights to do conspicuous surveillance – to collect more info and show them we are serious about following up on things. We have learned, however, that we can’t completely rely on word of mouth. Last year we set up a maintenance inspection based on information that there was a marijuana grow, and there was no evidence. On the other hand, there is usually some truth to the information; the tenants may not have been growing, but when they moved out they left plenty of drug paraphernalia in the yard.

B. Don’t tell them about our source and suspicions, but don’t give them any grace. Serve them a 3 day pay or quit to expire on the day they say they will have rent money. Be firm with late fees. Follow through on getting them out as soon as possible, serving 20 days notice on the 10th if the rent isn’t paid and the situation feels sketchy

C. Be patient and see how it plays out. They paid a little bit of rent today, they have the inside looking really nice, they need to make this housing option work (very few other options), Grandma is our safety net and leverage, and they did take on additional work to get additional money. Getting rid of tenants so soon costs money, especially if they get mad at how we’re treating them and trash the place or refuse to leave. And it’s too soon to really tell if we made a mistake accepting these applicants as tenants.

Frustrated that we are already doing scenario discussions around a new tenant. If they do fall apart, I’ll have to look at our criteria against their application to try to determine where we failed. As far as this week goes, I am in the option A camp, Bruce is in the option C camp, so we will probably compromise with a watered down version of option B.



Comments (16)

  1. B, definalty B. Are they on a lease or M2M. If they are M2M let them know that they are on thin Ice. If they are on a lease... I would do what I can to get them out. Honestly.... why did you rent to them. I don't remember who said it, I think it was Aaron Mazzrillo "if you can't afford to have it vacant, then you shouldn't have it". That being said I have had my fair share of shitty tenants. It was a hard learning lesson, but I has forced me to learn to be a better landlord.


    1. @Rusty Thompson , we use M2M.  We have already given proper notice that we are ending their tenancy at the end of the month, I'm just hoping to get it resolved before that.  We were not desperate to accept these tenants, we were getting a great response.  The qualified under our screening criteria and we like renting to folks just starting out with their rental history, thinking that they will try harder to keep a good reference.  What we didn't take enough into account is their short time at their job, that they don't know what they can afford.  And we can never predict what drama will ensue after move in.


  2. Hi Michele,

       I just wanted to drop you a quick note to say that I was thinking of you, and how brave you are to handle these situations as they arise. It is not always easy, but you provide a great service to your community. I am sure that you are valued more than you know by fellow community members. Good luck, and keep collecting that rent!


    1. Aww, thanks, Tiffany!  Sometime it would be easier to stay quiet, since some of the issue and our responses to them can get controversial, but think there are things for many of us to learn in the sharing.  Luckily with this one I've been busy enough that I'm not stewing over it the way sometimes I can as hours tick by with no developments.  Have a great Seattle meet-up this week!


  3. One of those rehab shows had an episode where they bought a property that was used as a meth lab... Basically had to rip out all of the sheet rock because it was toxic. i forgot if they needed to do the same with the floors.

    If there is someone still there an there is still some suspicion of meth, is there a way to get it inspected? Maybe an early 6 month inspection? I would be concerned about anyone that was still living there if meth was being manufactured previously.


  4. The real concern for me would be are they manufacuring meth. Meth is a very nasty thing, it has a tendency to explode into a fireball when manufactured incorrectly. After a meth lab is raided by law enforcement the crime scene unit will enter the house in haz-mat suits to protect themselves from the chemicals. Just so you know you do not need the entire "Breaking Bad" set up to manufacture meth, it can be done using a Tupperware contained, called the "one pot method" or "meth for dummies" and it is just as dangerous. In fact, it can be more dangerous because the people manufacturing it are morons who got the recipe by Googling it.  

    If the house starts smelling like a three month old litter box that has been left out in the sun, then they may be making meth. 

    How do I know all this, well I am a criminal defense attorney who has represented a lot of meth dealers and manufacturers.  


  5. I like to wait to post updates until the drama has played itself out, but that may take awhile longer in this case.  What has happened this week:

    - The sex offender boyfriend/dad split, moved to another state.  Remaining tenant cannot pay on her Wal-mart paycheck, but is not coming to terms with that fact, and swears that boyfriend will still pay to keep their son housed even though he is past due with the money.

    - We served a 3 day pay or quit for non-payment, to expire Tuesday.

    - We served a 20 day no cause notice dissolving the contract for the end of October in case the 3 day doesn't progress fast enough.  We told them we'd entertain a new contract if our conditions are met, but doubt they can meet them.

    - We contacted grandma the co-signer to let her know what we have done, what the tenants need to do to stay, and what grandma can do if she wants to minimize her financial losses.

    Bruce has been at the property a lot wrapping up an exterior paint job and is getting less and less concerned about the meth allegation, but hard to know until we can get inside all the rooms.

    Stay tuned...


  6. Ahhh the hassles of tenants, toilets, and termites. Keep us posted on this. BTW, would anyone know if there is there any chance of you being liable for anything and or losing the house to the iron fisted drug laws? 


  7. If they are doing meth in your house, remediation can include gutting the entire house to the studs. Meth is nothing to mess around with. Accepting partial rent can push back eventual eviction, and can even restart the process entirely depending on your state laws. It is nice they are trying, but they could also be gaming the system. Ultimately, you are in this business to make money, and supporting a meth house and non-paying tenants will only cost you money in the end.

    Good luck!


  8. Hang in there Michele. I remember those issues that caused sleepless nights.

    Your crime-free addendum might say something about suspicion....

    I pick Option B.


  9. I would do what you could to just get them out. Being late and possibly smoking meth in the house creates more problems than imaginable. If busted in your property, it can crate a health code violation that is very expensive to resolve (depending on the state). Clean up can range anywhere from $10k to $20k before you can rent it out again and will involve months of cleaning and testing. Insurance should cover but who wants a headache like that. 


  10. Thanks for all the comments, everyone!  This has been quite a rollercoaster and expensive year.  I feel like we are getting better and better through the years at tenant selection and detecting lies and liabilities , but sometimes I wonder if we still have a long way to go.  You are right of course that scenario B is a knee jerk over-the-top reaction, it is just so hard to always stand on the sidelines waiting and hoping.


  11. B. & C.

    A is IMHO extremely excessive & unecessary 

    I'd focus on getting the rent or the non paying tenants out. Not seeing were they spend their time.


  12. Michele: 

    I entered one of our units on Friday out of suspicion it had been abandoned - I'm pretty sure it has, but I wish they had taken all their sh... err, stuff with them.  When I walked in and flicked the light switch only to discover they had taken all the light fixtures - except the ugly chandelier - my inner sailer came to the fore.

    In context, a relatively minor issue compared to what you have been juggling lately.  I wish I could cultivate your serenity when dealing with the thoughtless tenants as they still frequently aggravate me  ... and it makes my morning run much tougher the next day.

    My nature would be to confront them or at least let them know you are on to them.  Dawn's suggestion of tagging the police as the source of the inquiry/complaint might be a good strategy to shield your neighbours from any misdirected thoughtlessness.

    It is possible they are trying to pull their socks up.  Meth is a hard mistress to leave, from what my friend who, works at our local detox clinic, tells me, so if they have a history with her, they may not be immediately, or ultimately, successful.  You will certainly need to keep your finger on events and be ready to jettison them if things start sliding downhill.  

    Though I commend the approach here, I'm not certain I have either the grace or patience to carry it out in your place.

    Best of luck.


  13. I would be inclined to have a public face and a private attitude in this case.

    Specifically, follow approach B. with a copy to Grandma but privately be open to C. if the facts and rent balance improve over the balance of the 20 days.

    It is good to hear that they are making the home nice.

    However, if they are getting their life together, they should understand the limits within which they need to operate as your tenant.

    Protecting your asset, reputation, and sanity are all important in such a situation.

    If you opt for A., Dawn's suggestion seems wise.


  14. If they are criminals, you don't want to make them mad or make them come after you.  What you can say is that the "police" are coming to you and asking you about this property.  The "police" are looking to watch this property.  And you don't want the "police" getting into your business or theirs, as they appear to be nice people.  The police really aren't the bad guys, but anyone who is a drug dealer or drug user doesn't want to get busted.