The Dovetail Method

50 Replies

Hey Herb, long time no see! Can you explain anymore on this "dovetail", sounds to me like a term used by some guru that is just a twist to a simultaneous or back-to-back settlement. What's the deal?

You nailed it - it even has a US Patent Pending!

From a google search to the guru's site:

"In fact, The Dovetail Methodâ„¢ is so exclusive that it is protected by copyright, trademarks and has a United States Patent Pending!"

Unless that's a wood joint used for hundreds of years that phrase might be hard to control or patent.

You can darn near put a copyright on anything, a TM if it's adopted by your company and say patent pending on anything. Unless someone uses it to describe the same product it won't mean much. I'll call it a simul/double closing which is common verbage in the industry.

So what is it, or how is it different?

How is a patent pending on it? Its a short sale flip using a trust? We are woking on it now and according to three lawyers I've spoken with, it's been around for a long time and since when is using a trust new?

"Patent Pending" simply means the patent office has accepted your patent application. Nothing more. If you are eventually granted a patent, and someone else violates your patent after the date the application was accepted then you can file suit against them or otherwise try to enforce your intellectual property.

You cannot patent a business process (device, whatever) someone else is already using or making. That's "prior art". You can, however, file a patent application for something someone else is doing and then claim its "patent pending". Eventually the application will be rejected. Or, at least it should be rejected. Mistakes happen, then have to get sorted out in court.

Also watch out for TM too. There are scammers who use the TM symbol but in reality they aren't trade marked at all. They know that a lot of people aren't going to check whether or not they are indeed trade marked so they get away with it.

Hello everyone,

I fund the Dovetail creators' back to back transactions regularly. Currently, I am funding an FHA end buyer transaction for them and their students close with Dovetail for BofA deals.

The Dovetail method was created by John Grant and Jerry Ballard. They're SREC coaches and offer this product along with Jeff Watson and Josh Cantwell.

[solicitation removed]

We don't see other trust closings other than Dovetail currently so this may new to some and not new to others as Maryann stated above.

However, my mantra is, it never hurts to listen and maybe learn something.

Best wishes,
Duane Ortega.

Duane, What is actually "patent pending?" I think that's what we're trying to figure out. Is it the paperwork? Is it a program?

I know Watson, Cantwell are good at what they do. I'm trying to figure out what the patent is for,

Hi Maryann,

I just asked the question from the creators, and here is their reply regarding the Dovetail Method:

Copyright (paperwork is actually in Library of Congress in Washington DC) - documents, written material, ... for Dovetail

Trademark - registered TM with a number of terms involved with the Dovetail Method.

Patent Pending - overall process of the utilization of using revocable living trusts in an AB to BC transactions; that process has pending US patent; think this may be a first in the realm of real estate investing.

Does this answer your question?

"Patent Pending - overall process of the utilization of using revocable living trusts in an AB to BC transactions; that process has pending US patent; think this may be a first in the realm of real estate investing."

how can that even be legal.

Im going to patent the lease agreement so all you landlords will have to figure something else out.

just got off the webinar with Cantwell and the boys. According to them the paper work covers a lot of problems that us S/S flippers are facing.

2nd part of the webinar is going to be next thursday, and o yeah you have to fill out an application to be accepted to take your money. :roll:

For better or worse, business method patents are allowed. Amazons "one click" ordering method, for example, is patented.

That said, a method must be "novel" to have a patent granted. If the described method is just writing down a method others have already been doing, it should not be granted. If it were granted, it could be fought in court. Applications often get revised significantly before the patent is granted.

Should someone be interested, some applications are published on the uspto web site. Just search for the inventors name. Not all applications are published.

Anyone can claim "trademark". You just have to use some mark and label it appropriately. You then have to defend it if someone tries to use it. Registered trademarks do have a process. All this means is some phrase or graphic is yours to use in your trade. If someone else uses that mark, you can force them to stop and seek damages. It says nothing at all about the underlying product or service.

Copyright says "these words are mine". It prevents someone else from copying your words verbatim. Again, you would need to seek damages if someone does copy them. To copyright something, there is no process at all, let alone anything involving the library of congress. You just have to include "copyright (c) year" and its done. The (c) is the c inside a circle. Look at the bottom of is page for an example. It says nothing about the novelty of what's being written, nor does it prevent someone from writing the same ideas in their own words. It simply gives notice that the copyright holder will sue you if you make a copy.

I am not a patent, trademark, or copyright expert. It seems they may have certain paperwork and contracts they are patenting (I think) - It's interesting as trusts have been around along time and I'm not sure that if another lawyer draws up something similar that that wouldn't be perfectly fine.

I just had someone call me about this program and it's $5000 to buy into the program.

I've followed Josh Cantwell and he's good at what he does. I'm not sure this is any different though than what Nathan Juruwitz and Chris Macglaulin pushed about 3 months ago.

Beyond the registration options, I really see it as pure marketing. There is no way to police a transaction and as to damages if an identical method was used, such would be pretty hard to establish!

Commonly used phrases in the public domain would be free to use. When an attorney drafts a Will much of it will be boilerplate, the format is customary much of the content will be required by law. There are sites for legal form libraries that attorneys use (restricted to members) where they get much of what they do, fill in the blanks and hand it to the client with a bill.

I have written notes, installment contractsand other agreements where an attorney has asked if they could use it. Not verbatim, but as to content, phrases or format.

Anyway, I don't see this as rocket science.

Again, we have positive feedback from relatively new members. IMO, alot more details can be given on any "system" or "program" without it being duplicated. I'm certainly open to learning anything. I have learned what many are doing, but the basis of what goes on is not new, just a different twist. To me that is of little value as I pretty much fly or flew on a per deal basis.

The creators of Dovetail (John Grant and Jerry Ballard) are good guys. They developed this system, and have used it for several years, and definitely know what they are doing. Until recently they have kept it very quiet and limited to a small number of people. Now, or course they are marketing idea what they are charging. We have not closed with the Dovetail.....although we have it available to us. We consider it a good tool to have if our normal exit strategies won't work. Unfortunately we can't answer any questions about it, since we signed a non-disclosure agreement with Jerry and John when they gave it to us.

Well Jackie, if you're not selling the progarm, exactly what is it, let's discuss it, what's the difference and transfers of beneficiaries trustees?


We're NOT selling the program, and have nothing to do with marketing it, etc. We are not students, and not associated with SREC or any other of the other gurus. We shared some of our short sale strategies with John and Jerry (they live about an hour away), and in return they gave us the Dovetail program. However, when they did, we signed a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement so we can't share any information about it. My reason for posting was that I wanted to let people know they are good guys with a successful exit strategy for short sales. Right now, we don't see a need to use it, but as I said, it's nice to know we have it available.

So yo're a friend of theirs and agreed to keep a secret.

I know more can be said than what is being said, let's keep it as a big secret....ooooh, LOL

There are no secret ways of cutting a deal that have not been done before, so I'd say if no one can explain why it's different, it's hype!

All I was saying Bill was that we have reviewed the system, and understand how it works....and although we have not used it, we feel the system has merit. Take it for what it's worth............I was just making a comment on the post. When we sign a confidentiality agreement we take it seriously. No hype on our part. We're just going about our business closing short sales.

Let them call it whatever they want as long as it actually works ya know.

I think its getting ridiculous that so many things have changed in short sales because of what guys like these(not saying them specifically, but they are guilty by association ya know) are pushing out there.

Too many products/services are 'created' that may be great in its inception but easily get abused by the general investing public. The gurus don't mind it at all because it gives them another opportunity to create another 'product/service' to sell ya know.

Not ranting on these guys specifically and I don't care what new way they're patenting because seriously, is the patent gonna matter in 12 months when this "NEW PATENTED" method is no longer allowed/accepted etc..?

Good luck if you ever do need it though Jackie. REO's are taking over here in the valley. I wish shorts were as easy to do back in the day. Nowadays, they're just too much headache and uncertainty for me to even think about. A million other ways to make great money.

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