Limitless vs Morris invest
Specialist · Chicago · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 7 votes
Limitless vs Morris invest
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Developer · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7yI would not recommend buying a turnkey single-family residential property. If you are looking for a truly passive investment you should partner with exeperienced operators in your are or invest in a syndicated deal either commercial or multi family.
94 Replies
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@David Goddard very simply if you go into a market with these metrics any market Is good.
1. establish the median sale price for the MSA
2. buy within 20% of the top of the median.
if you buy morris stuff is the very bottom.. common sense should dictate that the cheapest bottom priced units are going to have the poorest renters.. poor renters god bless them but they are very unstable and you as landlord get sucked into their drama and unstable life cycle.. which is non pay and destruction of your rental over a short period of time. Crime is higher and schools are the worse.. we all know real estate is priced by quality schools good schools higher prices and more stable tenants.. to me its simply common sense.
Morris Knew what was going on absolutely I know for a fact. I work indy a lot.. and talk to many who were doing and feeding him deals. even those guys quit working with him.. bad actor's they are.. Plain and simple
basic real estate tenants' apply here.. School Crime and low income. or higher income. whats better.
- Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 4 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@David Goddard very simply if you go into a market with these metrics any market Is good.
1. establish the median sale price for the MSA
2. buy within 20% of the top of the median.
if you buy morris stuff is the very bottom.. common sense should dictate that the cheapest bottom priced units are going to have the poorest renters.. poor renters god bless them but they are very unstable and you as landlord get sucked into their drama and unstable life cycle.. which is non pay and destruction of your rental over a short period of time. Crime is higher and schools are the worse.. we all know real estate is priced by quality schools good schools higher prices and more stable tenants.. to me its simply common sense.
Morris Knew what was going on absolutely I know for a fact. I work indy a lot.. and talk to many who were doing and feeding him deals. even those guys quit working with him.. bad actor's they are.. Plain and simple
basic real estate tenants' apply here.. School Crime and low income. or higher income. whats better.
Yeah, the entire situation is crazy. I've seen a blog update on their site regarding a complaint against Oceanpointe with the AG for Indiana but the entire thing is just unfortunate.
But thanks for the information and data. I appreciate it.
- Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes7y
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
- Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 4 votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
Oh, wow...
Well, there it is. I was wondering what kind of legal goings-on was happening behind the scenes.
Thanks for posting that information.
- Specialist · Gothenburg, Västra Götalands län · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 33 votes7y
@Jamil Rivera
Hi Jamil! My name is Magnus from Sweden.
I have 12 turnkey houses in Detroit bought from Strategy Propertys in Detroit. I have made between 10-14% ROI on these propertys 2018.
I been there for 2 years.
I had some evictions but no nightmare so far.
They took very good care of it.
Contact Al to buy and ask for Autumn as PM and i think you are in good hands.
I have all my life savings in Real Estate in USA.
I have a tyre business in Sweden.
I have to manage it with employes 8 to 17.
I can live with one problem or two with out of country investing. Compared to change winter tyres on 1400 cars each season.
Magnus
- Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 4 votes7y
Originally posted by @Magnus Göransson:
@Jamil Rivera
Hi Jamil! My name is Magnus from Sweden.
I have 12 turnkey houses in Detroit bought from Strategy Propertys in Detroit. I have made between 10-14% ROI on these propertys 2018.
I been there for 2 years.
I had some evictions but no nightmare so far.
They took very good care of it.
Contact Al to buy and ask for Autumn as PM and i think you are in good hands.
I have all my life savings in Real Estate in USA.
I have a tyre business in Sweden.
I have to manage it with employes 8 to 17.
I can live with one problem or two with out of country investing. Compared to change winter tyres on 1400 cars each season.
Magnus
Nice resume, Magnus. That's pretty awesome.
Was it difficult getting mortgages for those properties while residing overseas?
- Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 39 posts · 26 votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
Thanks for sharing this - something I wanted to note was at the end of the document the purchase agreement is for improved property when they said they were going to build on it meaning it was currently not improved? As a buyer how is that not a giant red flag?
- Oakland, CA · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 47 votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
OMG. Scumbags for real. I was hearing a bunch of complaints about Morris but thats crazy.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
and for all of those folks that are paranoid of being sued you can see through this complaint that no manner of LLC or trust or what have you will save you if you have done something like this.. they sue you personally end of story.. Chapter 7 will be the next step for Morris but you cant wipe out fraud claims in BK.. he is in for a world of hurt legally speaking.. I hope he enjoyed the millions he made or was as alleged misappropriated.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
I am surprised that they did not mention selling real estate without a license.. !!!
And this is the tip of the iceberg I am sure the AG is looking at this criminally and you are talking about securities violations as well. Morris has to be one nervous puppy.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @David Moudy:
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Goddard
"Is it possible that everything that has transpired - with regards to the many investors who were defrauded - has been exclusively Oceanpointe's fault?"
My experience is 100% absolutely not. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Check this out...
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION
Thanks for sharing this - something I wanted to note was at the end of the document the purchase agreement is for improved property when they said they were going to build on it meaning it was currently not improved? As a buyer how is that not a giant red flag?
some folks paid cash to build a new construction and ended up with a 1k valued lot and some footers that they paid 75k in cash for. Money gone.
- Specialist · Chicago · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 7 votes7y
@John Casmon
Thanks for the feed back appreciate it. I would like to know how you got started and if you have anything in the Chicagoland area?
- Specialist · Gothenburg, Västra Götalands län · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 33 votes7y
Thanks David!
I did not get any loan in the US, just because I am not a US resident.
I don't think I can as a non resident alien.
I bought for profits from my tyre shop in Sweden since 2006.
I was luckily started in Las Vegas 2015, after that the prices exploded, this year I did 1031 exchanges
with 4 of my condos in Vegas, and start to buy in Detroit in early 2017. And that's why I have experience of
Strategy Propertys.
Magnus
- Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes7y
@David Moudy
Morris & Oceanpointe were buying vacant city lots for a few hundred dollars ($450 was the number I saw a few times) and selling them for ~$68,500. The investor makes the purchase with cash and the transaction is closed and reported by the title company to the State of Indiana as an improved property. There are no contracts for this future construction. The investor gets nothing more than a promise from Morris Invest to build a house. According to multiple conversations between the investors and the builder, The Waire Group, the builder was commissioned to build ~200 of these “New Construction” investment homes. Also, according to these same investors, the builder is saying he is no longer receiving payments and all work has stopped. We have seen a couple dozen of these properties and they range from an overgrown, trash-filled vacant lot to the foundations being dug or started to ~70% completed. The majority are on the lesser end of completion. Some investors paid for these many months ago. Based on the numbers we’ve been presented, Morris and Oceanpointe have pocketed ~$14,000,000 less what appears to be a nominal amount to the builder.
Here are a couple pictures of a new construction home (lot) that was purchased/closed 10/31/17 and these pictures were taken by me 4/17/18
PS...another lawsuit against Oceanpointe & Bert Whalen. Goes to jury trial 7/23/19.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Moudy
Morris & Oceanpointe were buying vacant city lots for a few hundred dollars ($450 was the number I saw a few times) and selling them for ~$68,500. The investor makes the purchase with cash and the transaction is closed and reported by the title company to the State of Indiana as an improved property. There are no contracts for this future construction. The investor gets nothing more than a promise from Morris Invest to build a house. According to multiple conversations between the investors and the builder, The Waire Group, the builder was commissioned to build ~200 of these “New Construction” investment homes. Also, according to these same investors, the builder is saying he is no longer receiving payments and all work has stopped. We have seen a couple dozen of these properties and they range from an overgrown, trash-filled vacant lot to the foundations being dug or started to ~70% completed. The majority are on the lesser end of completion. Some investors paid for these many months ago. Based on the numbers we’ve been presented, Morris and Oceanpointe have pocketed ~$14,000,000 less what appears to be a nominal amount to the builder.
Here are a couple pictures of a new construction home (lot) that was purchased/closed 10/31/17 and these pictures were taken by me 4/17/18
PS...another lawsuit against Oceanpointe & Bert Whalen. Goes to jury trial 7/23/19.
with that kind of dough I am surprised they did not relocate to Brazil.
- San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2019 · 24 posts · 6 votes7y
@Jay Hinrichs
I just had a call with Morris Invest because... why not ? I had an appointment with them !
Larry called me and he was telling me about cashflow and how people pull money out of their 401k/IRA to buy their products.
They still sell unfinished properties and leave the customers after they get their money. How does this company call themselves a turnkey company ?
Larry said he will send me a list of B class neighborhoods so we will see what I get !
Oh and when I mentioned all the negative reviews about Morris Investment, his attitude changed very fast and almost threatened to end the call. "If you dont want to work with us that's fine"
Interesting so far.
- Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes7y
@David Noh
Sounds like a fun call! What market(s) are they selling in? If they send you a list of properties it would be great if you could post it or send that to me. I would forward it on to the investigators that have been communicating with us for the last few months.
- Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 4 votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Moudy
Morris & Oceanpointe were buying vacant city lots for a few hundred dollars ($450 was the number I saw a few times) and selling them for ~$68,500. The investor makes the purchase with cash and the transaction is closed and reported by the title company to the State of Indiana as an improved property. There are no contracts for this future construction. The investor gets nothing more than a promise from Morris Invest to build a house. According to multiple conversations between the investors and the builder, The Waire Group, the builder was commissioned to build ~200 of these “New Construction” investment homes. Also, according to these same investors, the builder is saying he is no longer receiving payments and all work has stopped. We have seen a couple dozen of these properties and they range from an overgrown, trash-filled vacant lot to the foundations being dug or started to ~70% completed. The majority are on the lesser end of completion. Some investors paid for these many months ago. Based on the numbers we’ve been presented, Morris and Oceanpointe have pocketed ~$14,000,000 less what appears to be a nominal amount to the builder.
Here are a couple pictures of a new construction home (lot) that was purchased/closed 10/31/17 and these pictures were taken by me 4/17/18
PS...another lawsuit against Oceanpointe & Bert Whalen. Goes to jury trial 7/23/19.
This is just unreal. $500 lots selling for $68,000. If that isn't a clever (albeit heinously crooked) business model I don't know what is.
Those pictures are from C-Class areas? Or I guess at this point it really doesn't matter given the gravity of the wrong-doings.
- 7yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Sometimes really good people get scammed by employers....they join the business for the same reason that these buyers do business with the company....they buy the sales pitch. Then after working there for awhile they get their eyes opened that they aren't working for who they though they were working for....they realize its a scam and don't want to have anything to do with it anymore and bail....
And others are part of the scam from the start.....are scumbags just like their employer...and they feel the heat coming or decide they want to run their own scam and start a new business....or are part of the "transition" of shifting the old company to a new name and running the same scam....
So how are you going to decide which one this guy is? Not easy to do....time will tell.......are you willing to take that risk or just go with someone that has a true proven track record already? Your choice....
- 7yJohn CasmonPro MemberCincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Jamil Rivera I'll send you a PM, but in short, I started with a duplex and slowly scaled until I felt confident to work with other investors on larger deals. I don't own much in Chicago for a few reasons, but the city has it's own share of challenges with turnkey operators. @Jay Hinrichs and @Brie Schmidt had a platform called Turnkey Reviews that many found helpful when looking at operators if you want to pursue that route.
- Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 4 votes7y
Okay, so I have a quick question:
Many successful real estate investors (not just Morris Invest) advocate for purchasing properties with an LLC for legal protection reasons. With MI though, they specifically state that they limit each of their LLC's to a maximum of $150,000 worth of properties (3 or so rentals if you consider the price points they generally buy at).
So my question is if they are successfully held financially liable for the lawsuit posted on the first page, can their liability only be for the maximum of one of their LLC's or are those legal asset protections void when it comes to fraud and other allegations posted within the lawsuit?
Thanks for the responses.
- Specialist · Chicago · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 7 votes7y
@Todd Burton
Indiana mostly
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Todd Burton:
@David Moudy
Morris & Oceanpointe were buying vacant city lots for a few hundred dollars ($450 was the number I saw a few times) and selling them for ~$68,500. The investor makes the purchase with cash and the transaction is closed and reported by the title company to the State of Indiana as an improved property. There are no contracts for this future construction. The investor gets nothing more than a promise from Morris Invest to build a house. According to multiple conversations between the investors and the builder, The Waire Group, the builder was commissioned to build ~200 of these “New Construction” investment homes. Also, according to these same investors, the builder is saying he is no longer receiving payments and all work has stopped. We have seen a couple dozen of these properties and they range from an overgrown, trash-filled vacant lot to the foundations being dug or started to ~70% completed. The majority are on the lesser end of completion. Some investors paid for these many months ago. Based on the numbers we’ve been presented, Morris and Oceanpointe have pocketed ~$14,000,000 less what appears to be a nominal amount to the builder.
Here are a couple pictures of a new construction home (lot) that was purchased/closed 10/31/17 and these pictures were taken by me 4/17/18
PS...another lawsuit against Oceanpointe & Bert Whalen. Goes to jury trial 7/23/19.
😱😱😱 If these accusations are true how is it that Clayton Morris is still out there practicing & promoting his business? How has a cease & desist not been issued?
- Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes7y
- Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 105 votes7y
@James Wise The reason is because he is only being sued civilly. I would imagine, if the AG got involved, they could implement some sort of cease and desist or suspend his ability to do business.
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