Wholesaler Misrepresented himself

Wholesaler Misrepresented himself

Real Estate Agent · Davenport, FL · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 6 votes

I am in the midst of dealing with a wholesaler that has left a bad taste in my mouth for the wholesaling business, and am wondering if this is common practice.

A little background:  So, I'm trying to sell my house and move to Central Florida for a job opportunity for my husband. The plan is for us to began a real estate business, with me focusing on it fulltime, and him eventually joining me once we are successful enough to afford it.  

The key to doing all of this is selling my home. It is an inherited home that needs updating.  We initially were selling it to a family friend so that it could stay within the family in a way, but that didn't work.  At this point, we are just interested in selling it quickly, and willing to leave a substantial amount of money on the table to do so, if necessary.  I had started filling out some of the "we buy houses" forms online to see if any investors would make it worthwhile for us.  I got several hits, and chose to go with someone who established themselves as a cash buyer who could close within 2 weeks.  I informed him of the comps in the area, and my knowledge of the property, and we haggled a price that my husband and I felt comfortable with.  I researched him a bit, seeing that he was a flipper and wholesaler.  At the time I was not too familiar with how wholesaling worked, and he had never mentioned wholesaling.  We signed an offer, sight unseen, with a 7 day inspection period.  He said he would be scheduling an inspector the next day.  The next day, he said he would schedule the inspector for early in the week because he wanted to come with him and was stuck in Broward (we are in Miami).  The following day(Saturday), he said his partner was in the area and wanted to take a look at the property. We obliged. On Monday(labor day), I asked when I should expect him and the inspector. He told me he would let me know Tuesday morning.  Tuesday morning, he asked if the inspector could come by at 7pm. I said yes and asked if he was coming also. He informed me he would not be.  Later in the day, he told me another "partner" was in the area and would like to visit the property. Again, we obliged, but I started to become more suspicious. I had already did some digging into his social media presence to see if he had listed our property with his wholesales over the weekend, and found nothing.  The next partner showed up at 5:30pm, and had another woman with her.  We chatted, and they took pictures, and left.  At 7pm, there was a knock on the door, and I assumed it to be the inspector, but it was someone different, someone who I had not been informed to expect.  I asked him if he was "blank", the inspector. He was not. He was another "partner", and mentioned "xyz" wasn't going to make it, but didn't "xyz" tell me that he was coming? No, also, I have no idea who that is. I spoke with "insert cash buyer name". "Oh, yeah. "Xyz" and "cash buyer" work in the same office." We go ahead and let this person view the property, and I check in with "cash buyer" to straighten if and when inspector is coming and who this guy was. He apologizes for his slip up, and not notifying me of the other "partner", says he will check in with the inspector and get back to me.  Inspector shows up. Now, I'm expecting and prepared for a full official home inspection.  This guy looks around the property for less than 10 minutes. He does no more than any of the "partners" do and leaves.  At this point, I'm very nervous about the whole situation, so I start digging again, and find that he has listed the property with his wholesales.  I do a bit of research on wholesaling and find out that there is a practice of putting a property under contract by identifying yourself as a cash buyer, trying to flip it to an end buyer, and then using the inspection period to back out if you can't flip it to an end buyer.  I confront the "cash buyer" with the knowledge that he has listed my property as a wholesale property.  I ask him if he intends to terminate the contract if he can't flip it to an end buyer. I don't want the property tied up unnecessarily as I am looking to move quickly.  His exact response: "Yes I either close on the property myself first or flip to an end buyer. I will know by the end of today so no worries about dragging it any further.  I knew your situation from the beginning that's why I kept the inspection to seven days only.  It's normally 15 days."  I wait until the end day and ask him what the plan is. He says that he has two cash buyers that would like to view the property tomorrow, and then will decide from there.(At least he us finally honest about who these people are)  I ask him if this means he intends to terminate the contract if he can't find an end buyer? His response: "Please give me till tomorrow afternoon I am doing absolutely everything I can to make this work. I know how important it is to you and your family"

I'm wondering if there is any recourse I have at this point.  I will wait and see what he says tomorrow, and maybe we will get lucky, and one of these investors will want the property. However, I don't have faith in that. The deal I made with him is great for an investor.  The money he has tacked on to wholesale it, makes it a little too expensive for an investment opportunity, I feel.  The whole situation has taught me some big lessons, and I'm trying hard to keep my cool.  Is this how it always works? 

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Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

"Wholesaler misrepresented himself."

"Water turned out to be wet."

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmon, you asked "If cash flow is strong, what kind of percentage of ARV should you limit yourself to? I imagine that in a case with really good cash flow, you might consider full ARV minus repairs? Is that completely off base"?

    Mind you, when you are SELLING your property, like now, there should be no reason for YOU to need to sell at that sort of discount. Hopefully, you can wait for that owner-occupier who likes you property and wants to update it to their taste, and will pay you FULL as-is value.

    @Mark Ferguson has the wise policy of not offering over 80% of current value (so, don't sell him yours). 

    ANY home buyer can pay retail, any day of the week (though I don't know where they would be finding lots of properties that consistently cash flow by paying the full retail price - with borrowed money). Remember what this site is called - and I'm fairly certain that paying retail for property will not get you applying for those bigger pockets any time soon. The mantra around here is "you will already be in profit from day one, by buying at the right price" (ie. well below CURRENT market value). Cheers...

  • Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmon  I deal with wholesalers all the time here in Sacramento, and you have to be very careful.  I say this because you want a career in real estate, so you will deal with them again.  They are pretty harmless, but they can be a huge waste of your time.  However, a good wholesaler (and there are very few) are priceless to a serious flipper.

    Here is what I do, and it cures the problem every time.  If I have a property for sale and I suspect a wholesaler, I tell them I am getting a lot of activity on the home. I tell them that if they place a cash offer, it means they are really serious and know what they are doing. I ask them to put down a $5,000 non-refundable deposit.  Now, I am a flipper at times and also do private money lending, and I will gladly give $5,000 of my money non-refundable to buy a home if it is a good deal. Why?  Because I don't want anyone else buying it but me! 

    Each time I have required a non-refundable deposit, the wholesalers disappear, and the real flippers stay.  

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    @Nikki Harmon, you asked "If cash flow is strong, what kind of percentage of ARV should you limit yourself to? I imagine that in a case with really good cash flow, you might consider full ARV minus repairs? Is that completely off base"?

    Mind you, when you are SELLING your property, like now, there should be no reason for YOU to need to sell at that sort of discount. Hopefully, you can wait for that owner-occupier who likes you property and wants to update it to their taste, and will pay you FULL as-is value.

    @Mark Ferguson has the wise policy of not offering over 80% of current value (so, don't sell him yours). 

    ANY home buyer can pay retail, any day of the week (though I don't know where they would be finding lots of properties that consistently cash flow by paying the full retail price - with borrowed money). Remember what this site is called - and I'm fairly certain that paying retail for property will not get you applying for those bigger pockets any time soon. The mantra around here is "you will already be in profit from day one, by buying at the right price" (ie. well below CURRENT market value). Cheers...

    Brent, if she sells at full arv minus repairs that is not a discount. If ARV is 300k and the home needs 30k in repairs she is asking if some one would pay 270k. I am not saying everyone will want a 20 percent discount, but I think 99.9 percent of people will not pay 270k on a house that needs 30k in work to get to 300k value when they could just buy an already repaired 300k house and not worry about repairs. That's not a discount at all.

    For one an owner occupied buyer may not be able to get a loan depending on how severe the repairs are. The OP also wants a quick cash sale which an owner occupied buyer is unlikely to be able to do. 

    Second if a house needs 30k in repairs the buyers probabaly can't finance that and will have to come up with 30k in cash and possibly wait for repairs to be done before they move in or have them done while they live there. I've been an agent and investor for almost 15 years and almost all owner occupant buyers don't want houses they had to fix. The ones that want fixer uppers are savvy buyers who can do the work themselves and want to get a smoking deal. 

    About the only time the ARV minus repairs might fly is in a crazy sellers market where their are simply no homes for sale and that is the buyers only choice.

  • Real Estate Agent · Davenport, FL · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    @Nikki Harmon, you asked "If cash flow is strong, what kind of percentage of ARV should you limit yourself to? I imagine that in a case with really good cash flow, you might consider full ARV minus repairs? Is that completely off base"?

    Mind you, when you are SELLING your property, like now, there should be no reason for YOU to need to sell at that sort of discount. Hopefully, you can wait for that owner-occupier who likes you property and wants to update it to their taste, and will pay you FULL as-is value.

    @Mark Ferguson has the wise policy of not offering over 80% of current value (so, don't sell him yours). 

    ANY home buyer can pay retail, any day of the week (though I don't know where they would be finding lots of properties that consistently cash flow by paying the full retail price - with borrowed money). Remember what this site is called - and I'm fairly certain that paying retail for property will not get you applying for those bigger pockets any time soon. The mantra around here is "you will already be in profit from day one, by buying at the right price" (ie. well below CURRENT market value). Cheers...

    Brent, if she sells at full arv minus repairs that is not a discount. If ARV is 300k and the home needs 30k in repairs she is asking if some one would pay 270k. I am not saying everyone will want a 20 percent discount, but I think 99.9 percent of people will not pay 270k on a house that needs 30k in work to get to 300k value when they could just buy an already repaired 300k house and not worry about repairs. That's not a discount at all.

    For one an owner occupied buyer may not be able to get a loan depending on how severe the repairs are. The OP also wants a quick cash sale which an owner occupied buyer is unlikely to be able to do. 

    Second if a house needs 30k in repairs the buyers probabaly can't finance that and will have to come up with 30k in cash and possibly wait for repairs to be done before they move in or have them done while they live there. I've been an agent and investor for almost 15 years and almost all owner occupant buyers don't want houses they had to fix. The ones that want fixer uppers are savvy buyers who can do the work themselves and want to get a smoking deal. 

    About the only time the ARV minus repairs might fly is in a crazy sellers market where their are simply no homes for sale and that is the buyers only choice.

    The ARV minus repairs question wasn't in reference to my own property. I was thinking in terms of buying buy and holds in the future with strong cash flow. What you said made about not buying something that needs repairs unless you are getting a substantial discount helped me align my thinking though. Thanks!

    Also, to be clear, I wasn't looking for a quick cash sale when I spoke with this guy. It was offered, and who would turn that down versus waiting 30 to 60 days to close?

    Also, the house needs about 20k in repairs I think, but 30k would likely put you in the 325k and up range for ARV.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmonthis guy was not operating as a "wholesaler". He is clearly operating as an unlicensed broker. Brokers get listing agreements that specify a price. You gave him a contract specifying a price. Brokers market, advertise, and show the property. He did market, advertise, and show the property. This is where many of these "wholesalers" are actually operating as unlicensed brokers. I hope you take my advice and turn them into the state. www.myfloridalicense.com is the link. You can actually email the investigator that works you area. Please don't let them get away with this. Complaints will be the only way to put an end to these frauds and help stop innocent owners from being victimized by them.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmon  put the 20k into the home and then sell for full retail. my experince with teh buying public mirrors Mark's   when there is work to be done what a retail buyer and you will think about the costs of repairs is usually way different your thinking 20k they are@Mark Ferguson

    thinking 40k and will offer accordingly   the buyers buy and large are not versed in remodel and updating and usually don't have access to subs that most fix and flip folks do so their costs are far greater.. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Davenport, FL · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Nikki Harmonthis guy was not operating as a "wholesaler". He is clearly operating as an unlicensed broker. Brokers get listing agreements that specify a price. You gave him a contract specifying a price. Brokers market, advertise, and show the property. He did market, advertise, and show the property. This is where many of these "wholesalers" are actually operating as unlicensed brokers. I hope you take my advice and turn them into the state. www.myfloridalicense.com is the link. You can actually email the investigator that works you area. Please don't let them get away with this. Complaints will be the only way to put an end to these frauds and help stop innocent owners from being victimized by them.

     I will be. What he did was fraudulent. He did not enter into a contract in good faith.  I just need a moment to sit down and write everything out, in thorough detail, before I speak with anyone. I need to align my thoughts, and with a toddler and a newborn and getting the house ready to go on the market, plus meeting with a couple of legitimate interested parties this weekend, that sit down moment isn't going to come until next week.  

  • Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmon  Someone above said to put the $20,000 into the property yourself and sell for retail. I agree completely.  If you do not have the $20,000, but have equity, borrow the money against the home. I have done this before. I call this a "reverse flip"...it's when the home is flipped, with the owner still owning the home!

    Private money lenders like myself, love this kind of a deal, because the risk is so low.  If the home is owned free and clear and you need $20,000, the risk to me placing a $20,000 1st mortgage is very low.  I don't loan in your State, but I am sure there are many private money investors who would want that deal. :-)

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Mark Ferguson, by saying "if she sells at full arv minus repairs that is not a discount", I totally agree. (But so what)? And I did follow your LOGIC about no-one being prepared to pay as-is value. But I also am a strong believer in not selling your property (or any other stuff) for less than market value. @Nikki Harmon is well within her rights to find out what the REAL market value is, by asking the market to pay full AS-IS value. If the market won't pay that, then how is that the market value then? I am certain that all the comps out there are not just AFTER repair values.

    I don't mind the suggestion put by @Jay Hinrichs for Nikki to put in the funds necessary to reach ARV, and perhaps generate more than the rehab cost. But, will it really?

    Nikki, Real Estate IS fun, don't you agree?...

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @David Oldenburg do you do owner occ loans ? .... not many HML will do those for all the tila regs etc.. in Oregon loans under 50k can only charge a few points over prime. so you don't see it done. the only folks that do those are thrifts or credit unions primarily that are set up for owner occ regulation and reporting.

    do you use your CA brokers license for those or do you need the NMLS license like I have . its required in Oregon to be NMLS licensed to do any loan on a 1 to 4 unit regardless if its for commercial purposes or not.. Its a pain that NMLS I am going to put mine on Ice not enough revenue for me to want to dink around with all the NMLS stuff.. :)  defeats my purpose of being a hobby lender !

  • Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
    11y

    @Jay Hinrichs Hi, I have an NMLS license in CA and I am also a RE Broker. I have been doing FHA, VA and CONV since 1989 and also loan my own money as a private investor. I don't do owner-occupied, unless it is a short-term bridge loan, because there are exemptions for temporary financing and bridge loans, regarding many of the rules and compliance.

    In my area, it is very easy to get 10% and 2 points on lower risk loans to rehabbers and other investors. I could also get more. There really isn't a need to loan money to people to buy their primary residence, and take on a much larger risk level. I let FHA and Fannie Mae take on that risk :-)

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Zeak Hill:
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:
    Originally posted by @Zeak Hill:

    @Richard C.

    I see you put your spin on it, I said:

    "you are not obligated to volunteer all your "trade secrets" to sellers. If they ask then by all means be honest but it's not wise to educate your sellers on all your business details of how you conduct business."

    Your interpretation implies that I'm saying be dishonest unless challenged which is not what I was trying to convey and my post dealt with a lot more than what you gleaned.

     Do your seller believe that you are buying their house?  Yes or no?

     Are you familiar with "and/or assigns" ?  Yes or no ?

    Did the contract specify that it "could not be assigned" ?  Yes or no ?

    Most wholesale investors know what I'm talking about but I think you are approaching it as someone who is not familiar with what goes on in biggerpockets.com and many other investor local reia across America

     I suggest you check my post history before making the ridiculous assumption that I am not familiar with wholesaling.  Seriously, dude...

    Whether your contract contains language allowing you to assign is not the point, and you know it. You get people to sign that contract by presenting yourself as a bona fide buyer.

    If that is what you mean by "business details of how you conduct business" then you should find a more honorable profession. 

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Wholesalers are an odd bunch. They want to sell properties, but then they sometimes don't even call you back.  I just tried contacting one via phone, and via text, and they won't respond to me.  But yet they keep advertising the same property for sale.

  • Harrison , NJ · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    @Richard C. @John Thedford

    Do either of you mind sharing any "bad" experiences you have had with wholesalers or why you feel so strongly that their selling activities are illegal or polluting the industry? 

    I am shocked by how strong of a stance you both have taken on this subject and I am just curious to know why or how this sour taste developed? 

    As far as I know, there is wholesaling happening every day and it can be a great partnership between sellers and investors who do 50+ flips/rehabs per year. 

    Thank you-

    PC

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    @Mark Ferguson, by saying "if she sells at full arv minus repairs that is not a discount", I totally agree. (But so what)? And I did follow your LOGIC about no-one being prepared to pay as-is value. But I also am a strong believer in not selling your property (or any other stuff) for less than market value. @Nikki Harmon is well within her rights to find out what the REAL market value is, by asking the market to pay full AS-IS value. If the market won't pay that, then how is that the market value then? I am certain that all the comps out there are not just AFTER repair values.

    I don't mind the suggestion put by @Jay Hinrichs for Nikki to put in the funds necessary to reach ARV, and perhaps generate more than the rehab cost. But, will it really?

    Nikki, Real Estate IS fun, don't you agree?...

    One of the fundamentals of real estate is that when a home needs repairs it will sell for a discount. No one likes to make repairs just for the fun of it to break even. 

    Arv minus repairs does not equal as is value. As is value is determined by the market which considers how many repairs, how much they are, how long it will take, what similar houses have sold for and what fixed up houses sell for. If ARV is 300k and 20k in repairs are needed the as is value could be 270k, 250k or 230k depending on the market and the repairs.

    It is almost always a good idea to make repairs before you list it if able. Why do you think flippers fix up houses? 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

     I'm not really sure what damages were done. She had the house under contract for 7 days and it fell through. Same thing could have happened if it was listed. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

     Chapter 475 is 36 pages long. Can you be more specific?

  • Harrison , NJ · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    @Mark Ferguson @John Thedford

    I agree with Mark in the sense that I don't see the damage? I also feel like the "victimization" aspect to this is not entirely true. There was no hostile, non-permissible, negligent environment under which the contract was formed. 

    I suppose some could argue the fraudulent aspect- but not strongly enough- clearly as wholesaling is a very live and well profession. 

    Thanks for the response though

  • Real Estate Agent · Davenport, FL · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

     I'm not really sure what damages were done. She had the house under contract for 7 days and it fell through. Same thing could have happened if it was listed. 

     Well for one, I've come to find out that my property was not only wholesaled at this markup for this guy, but also REWHOLESALED at another markup on top of his.  It was sent out on various lists ar various different price points. Someone told me this is called a daisy chain.  Someone could have viewed my property with a much higher and unreasonable price point in mind, when they might have paid something closer to what I would be willing to negotiate with.  I possibly lost an opportunity for a true cash buyer.

    Let's not disregard the fact that this man had various strangers paraded through my house under the guise of being "partners". Considering he mass marketed my property over email to anyone who might have signed up on his site, literally anyone could have called the number to see my house, with no vetting. This is a huge violation of my safety, considering I thought I was letting associates of his, and not strangers he didn't even know personally into my house. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

     I'm not really sure what damages were done. She had the house under contract for 7 days and it fell through. Same thing could have happened if it was listed. 

    Mark: I partly agree. If she had a LEGITIMATE buyer that had inspections...then chose not to move forward, that would be HONEST dealing. This jerk LIED AND MISLED the seller. Furthermore, they are without a doubt operating as an unlicensed broker. That is a felony in the  state. They had no intention of buying. At what point is lying and deceit OK? It isn't.  As a matter of fact, I purchased a house in 2012 from a seller who kept asking "how do we know we can trust you". I found out why the concern. Another fraudster had pulled the same thing on them as the OP. These frauds aren't reneging on buying a car off the lot, they aren't changing their mind about something they put on layaway at Sears, they are messing with peoples lives, probably the biggest investment they ever will own, and something that often has extreme emotional ties. Why is the practice of real estate so heavily regulated? To protect the public (but you know that)! 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Paige Clarke:

    @Mark Ferguson @John Thedford

    I agree with Mark in the sense that I don't see the damage? I also feel like the "victimization" aspect to this is not entirely true. There was no hostile, non-permissible, negligent environment under which the contract was formed. 

    I suppose some could argue the fraudulent aspect- but not strongly enough- clearly as wholesaling is a very live and well profession. 

    Thanks for the response though

    What about the felony aspect? Is that relevant or not? If you wish to operate this way in Florida, and you get busted, your argument won't work. It is no different than the "everyone else is doing it" argument often used by those that get caught doing something illegal. Go see the post about getting busted in Ohio for brokering without a license. Same thing. Different state. I read your profile and it states you want to "wholesale" as a strategy. If you can do that morally, AND legally, great. What if you have to compromise on either?  There are hundreds of posts in the "wholesaling" forum from fraudsters (many in Florida) where they state their "inspection period" is expiring and they don't have a buyer. They were not buyers in the first place. They lied and misled the homeowner. Can you defend that as an acceptable way to do business?

  • Real Estate Agent · Davenport, FL · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Paige Clarke:

    @Mark Ferguson @John Thedford

    I agree with Mark in the sense that I don't see the damage? I also feel like the "victimization" aspect to this is not entirely true. There was no hostile, non-permissible, negligent environment under which the contract was formed. 

    I suppose some could argue the fraudulent aspect- but not strongly enough- clearly as wholesaling is a very live and well profession. 

    Thanks for the response though

     He entered into a contract under good faith that he was a cash buyer intending to close on my property himself.  He never actually intended to close.  He paraded strangers through my property, including a phony inspector.  In our first conversation, I had told him I had several other appointments with other interested parties coming to see my house, the following week.  I canceled those appts based on having an offer, from someone who represented themselves as a cash buyer intent on closing on my property.  And while I understand there is an inspection period for him to find my property unacceptable, he never inspected my property.  He told me he couldn't find a buyer, so he couldn't close, once I confronted him about wholesaling my property.  My understanding is that you enter into a contract in good faith, meaning you intend to do what you are stating, which is close.  Sometimes things happen and the contract falls through, and that is not fraudulent.  However, misrepresenting yourself and having no intention of following the contract is definitely a violation of a good faith agreement. 

    I spoke with another wholesaler, and he was perfectly honest about his intentions, and what he would need/want from me.  While l can definitely understand the debate of legality, since he would be marketing my property and brokering a sale unlicensed, his honesty about what his intentions were speaks volumes. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Paige Clarketwo simple reasons: read the full thread. This person has victimized the homeowner. I have purchased properties from sellers AFTER they were victimized by fraudsters just like this. It is a felony in the State of Florida to operate in this manner. See chapter 475 Florida statutes. How would YOU feel if some fraudster pulled this on you? Would it be OK?

     Chapter 475 is 36 pages long. Can you be more specific?

    Brokering without a license. @Brian Gibbonsand I sent PM's the other day. He found the relevant section and the possible consequences. It is a felony. We are seeing cease and desist letters being issued. In other cases, fines levied. Can anyone just walk in and list a property in your state without a license? I am certain they cannot. These fraudsters are doing just that under the guise of "buying" the property. I put one under contract on Sunday. We just got our inspection report today. It came back with some unforeseen issues. I emailed the owner and stated we want a 5K concession on sales price or we would have to cancel the contract. We spent money for the inspection! No bogus garbage these fraudsters use! We promptly informed the homeowner of our position. We didn't take people through trying to make a markup after we lied and said we want to buy it.  BTW--the homeowner wants to move forward. Either way, the deal is honest from the start...not full of lies and deceit!  There is an easy way for these types of operators to get legal: get licensed. Of course, that is no guarantee of ethics.

  • Harrison , NJ · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    @Nikki Harmon

    You are completely validated in your reasoning and I am sorry that you had a poor experience. At least you were able to quickly move on with other options/opportunities and now you are more equipped to educate others with your experience. I think the issue was with the misrepresentation and not upholding to your standards- as you have mentioned numerous times. 
    Best of luck to you and your family with the sale! Thanks for the good forum discussion

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