Cringeworthy self promotion on BP
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Investor Ā· Dallas, TX Ā· Member since 2009 Ā· 718 posts Ā· 913 votes
6y@Jeff C., Yep, there are definitely some cringeworthy threads going on. I think BP does an overall good job of keeping the marketing in marketplace, but you can tell a lot of these posters are pushing it right to the line. There's one in particular right now who, if you accept his boasting, is approaching Buffett-like heights of investing yet still somehow manages to find time to write all of his self-promoting posts while adding almost zero value in terms of content. It's like only he has the secret sauce and supernatural insight and the only logical conclusion is to see if you can offer him money and hopefully he will let you invest with him. Pass.
126 Replies
- Rental Property Investor Ā· Brooke Park Drive Ā· Member since 2018 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @James Dickens:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Pankaj Sharma:
@Jeff Cagle I just tried to share our first podcast and I was taken down immediately. I wasnāt trying to sell anything. Just get some feedback and hopefully connect with more of my tribe but I understand. Itās all good.
You can post it in the Marketplace, not in the forums.
The problem with this is that the Marketplace is not a catch-all. Yall did this to me on a post a while back as well and although it may not be for the general forum I was not trying to sell anything. When you get a lot of a type of post maybe it's time to start looking at creating a new section.
15 years we've had the rule in place. It is a primary rule to these forums, and one of the main reasons why these forums are not over run with spam linking back to thousands of peoples websites, while every other real estate forum online is filled up with those things.
There's a certain amount of irony for someone getting moderated for posting a link by a moderator with four links in their signature. :)
Anyone can have links in their signature line. Thats what the signature line is for if you so choose to have one. Signature lines are not search engine indexed, while the content on the forums is.
There is literally thousands of posts per week with members just posting links back to their content and websites. It would simply be one big spam fest if that were allowed, which is why its not.
What if I post a link to spam recipes will it be taken down?
- Real Estate Agent Ā· Washington, D.C. Ā· Member since 2012 Ā· 17k+ posts Ā· 30k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @James Dickens:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Pankaj Sharma:
@Jeff Cagle I just tried to share our first podcast and I was taken down immediately. I wasnāt trying to sell anything. Just get some feedback and hopefully connect with more of my tribe but I understand. Itās all good.
You can post it in the Marketplace, not in the forums.
The problem with this is that the Marketplace is not a catch-all. Yall did this to me on a post a while back as well and although it may not be for the general forum I was not trying to sell anything. When you get a lot of a type of post maybe it's time to start looking at creating a new section.
15 years we've had the rule in place. It is a primary rule to these forums, and one of the main reasons why these forums are not over run with spam linking back to thousands of peoples websites, while every other real estate forum online is filled up with those things.
There's a certain amount of irony for someone getting moderated for posting a link by a moderator with four links in their signature. :)
Anyone can have links in their signature line. Thats what the signature line is for if you so choose to have one. Signature lines are not search engine indexed, while the content on the forums is.
There is literally thousands of posts per week with members just posting links back to their content and websites. It would simply be one big spam fest if that were allowed, which is why its not.
What if I post a link to spam recipes will it be taken down?
That, we will let stay because a) its funny, b) someone might find it useful, and c) most importantly it doesnt link back to your own site or content. If the recipes were written by you or hosted on your own site, then we would remove it.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - Rental Property Investor Ā· Member since 2019 Ā· 56 posts Ā· 24 votes6y
Mmmm, Spam.. Just in time for lunch..š
- Contractor Ā· Indianapolis, IN Ā· Member since 2016 Ā· 267 posts Ā· 144 votes6y
@Russell Brazil some people just love to buck the rules donāt they? š You give them an awesome site and all they do is complain about their podcast not being promotable on parts of that site.
- Rental Property Investor Ā· Farmington, UT Ā· Member since 2018 Ā· 171 posts Ā· 148 votes6y
@Jeff Cagle Amen! I especially hate all these guys trying to get newbies to invest in their turnkey operation in terrible, shrinking markets. These operators donāt seem to take there is a world of hurt for these guys as they make their money regardless.
- Mandan, ND Ā· Member since 2017 Ā· 42 posts Ā· 64 votes6y
Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Iāve been on here for a while and quite honestly donāt see it. Can you call out a few of them by linking to the posts?
to avoid any answer I give having any tint that it might be promotion Iāve removed my company name and last name years ago.
Cody, look for posts vy the user eith the initial M.E. and tell us what you think
- 6yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor Ā· Poway, CA Ā· Member since 2015 Ā· 7k+ posts Ā· 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Pankaj Sharma:
@Jeff Cagle I just tried to share our first podcast and I was taken down immediately. I wasnāt trying to sell anything. Just get some feedback and hopefully connect with more of my tribe but I understand. Itās all good.
You can post it in the Marketplace, not in the forums.
The rules are the rules. However, I believe hotel guyās post, that was clearly to raise funds, was not in marketplace. Maybe it was not obvious to everyone when the thread was created.
- 6yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor Ā· memphis, TN Ā· Member since 2009 Ā· 2k+ posts Ā· 3k+ votes
On January 6th I'll start my 12th year of posting here on the site. I can tell every poster on here (and a few of you may have been here as long as me) that the site has not changed over the years. It has simply grown. Back in 2009 there were plenty of self-serving and promotional posts. I think the hardest part of administering the site today is the sheer volume of posts, but here is the intersting thing.
While it may bug some posters and we are all free to be as bothered as we want to be, I think the vast majority of readers and posters on here recognize these posts for what they are. As annoying as it is, making blatantly self-serving posts and lazily cutting and pasting the same response over and over will never earn someone business. I've watched it for 11 years and there is one poster who has cut and pasted the same post over 1,000 times here on the site. He will make this post on any forum that mentions on specific keyword. Whether it is germain to the topic or not. His ratio of votes to post is one vote for every 10 posts. He clearly believes in quantity over quality, but his lack of growth as a poster shows he is clearly not being engaged. I see that as a massive waste of time!
Now, what I do find most interesting about self promotion and using links is this. If you post a self serving article on your BP blog page, then you can post that link in the forums as much as you'd like. You can link to your own website through your BP blog and any outside materials you want to create. So, you can use hyperlinks as much as you'd like, just so long as they point back to a BP blog and that blog can be as promotional as you'd like.
In the end, the posters who are giving the best advice, posting good content that is educational, and in general tyrying to be helpful always seem to rise to the top and get not only the most traction, but also the most genuine interaction. It's been that way since the beginning and I imagine it will remain that way. We'll see ~
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant Ā· Summerlin, NV Ā· Member since 2014 Ā· 45k+ posts Ā· 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
I was just thinking this same thing today and then I ran across this thread. The posting is starting to get a bit ridiculous at times, but where I really notice the difference is podcasts. Most of the podcasts I've been listening to for the past couple years have started to go downhill, mainly through loads of circular self promotion. Person A has a podcast and Person B comes on it, then A goes on B's, and then they both go on C's and he comes on their's, etc and they all say the same thing and the value just goes downhill quickly. Even the biggerpockets podcasts (which I love most of the time) have fallen victim to this.
Everyone is chasing capital and throwing out their best sales pitch constantly, like it's a frenzy out there now. Probably a bad sign, whenever there is overwhelming exuberance things tend to fall apart.
I do agree with the poster that the quality of posts in general seems to have fallen over the past year for some reason. The constant self promotion stuff isn't making that any better.
This is very well stated. IMO, the most informative, least spammy, and highest value per time spent were the BP forums in 2012 - 2015. About the time 'Bob Bowling' got banned (the guy he upset is a big name and author on BP and friends with the mods and uppers) for providing real value about Cap Rates. What he was staying didn't jive with the general (false) idea on here that higher cap rates are good, as well as promotion of Turnkey or "higher cap" returns. IMO, a great resource like that shouldn't have been banned because someone was offended by his blunt nature.
There is now a lot of promotion, spam, rehashing of the same stuff and capitalizing on newbies who won't take any action anyway. There are still a lot of smart people who if you sift hard enough provide a lot of value. Too bad there is a lot more sifting now than in the past :D
Too Funny I am currently typing this from our room on the 18th floor of Nauru tower and this unit looks directly over Waikiki and I can also see Bobs Condo :).. I never met him in person but i can relate as I was raised in the Bay Area and of course his holdings or at least he said they were there in the Bay Area.. And for him when he bought or anyone else for that matter that bought in the 80s in the bay area and held they have made bank far more than most could even fathom in other lower tier markets in the US> And really same here in Honolulu or i was just over on Maui and average price there is 720k I had lunch with Brandon Turner he is super cool along with his associate Ryan Murdoch..
But the reason for my response is I only got on this site about 5 years ago.. And one of the posters used to call me out. His name was Joe Gore.. He did not believe that I indeed was a HML and had the career I had had to date.. But he also was pretty abusive to many.. It also kind of taught me to just put your bio on your bio page and let others read it if they like.. Occasionally we all slip out some information on our success's etc.. I just learned how to use the deal diaries so when i want to puff a little i just put it there.. But I will say when i see others go at it with self promotion and dont get taken down I for one get a little offended but then Hey i dont own the site.. I love the site and most everyone I meet here are great people. and many have donated to our chairity aheroshome.org which we deeply appreciate..
Thomas from Eastern CA has gone away.. I used to argue with him a bunch though.. him and his dead equity.. Me and my its OK to own assets free and clear.
Then there was another dude from GA at least he said he was from there.. and he was really a pied piper on this sight.. but I had my doubts.. So one night he posts about his Jet being a G 4 and how it costs him 4k a month to operate.. Well being in private aviation myself for most of my adult life and having owned a few airplanes.. I know a G 4 would cost you north of 20k and hour to operate NOT 4k a month.. so after maybe a few glass's of wine I took him to task.. on this site and he never came back the Mods let me do it.. Not my proudest moment.. but I have learned SLOWLY that puffing is alive and well on internet forums. I dont personally go on any other forums and i just learned how to watch U tubes. Only becasue of Clayton Morris.
Also really liked Gully he was polarizing and i did not agree with everything he said especially about fractionalized mortgages since they are alive and well in CA.. so you cant put one type of debt instrument and say its illegal in all states.
Anyway.. off to the pool here in a little bit..
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant Ā· Summerlin, NV Ā· Member since 2014 Ā· 45k+ posts Ā· 66k+ votes
@Chris Clothier I used to call the cut and paste the welcome wagon of BP..
But your exactly right there are many that do that. Although I do believe maybe in the beginning
it was encourage for new posters to do the cut and paste welcome to the site. But there is no doubt some folks have really juiced their post numbers through that practice and there is a subliminal thought process that for some lots of post might mean greater knowledge. And your dead on 3k post 500 likes is a dead giveaway. and conversely those that add actionable or value content tend to have more votes than posts.Sometimes as much as 2 votes or more per post.. those are the folks that when they speak people listen
EF Hutton :)
great team 10 cap LOL great team 10 cap great team 10 cap LOL
- Architect Ā· Hudson Valley, NY Ā· Member since 2015 Ā· 133 posts Ā· 35 votes6y
@Ned Carey but BP needs to add this as a function on the app.
- Rental Property Investor Ā· Brooke Park Drive Ā· Member since 2018 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:
On January 6th I'll start my 12th year of posting here on the site. I can tell every poster on here (and a few of you may have been here as long as me) that the site has not changed over the years. It has simply grown. Back in 2009 there were plenty of self-serving and promotional posts. I think the hardest part of administering the site today is the sheer volume of posts, but here is the intersting thing.
While it may bug some posters and we are all free to be as bothered as we want to be, I think the vast majority of readers and posters on here recognize these posts for what they are. As annoying as it is, making blatantly self-serving posts and lazily cutting and pasting the same response over and over will never earn someone business. I've watched it for 11 years and there is one poster who has cut and pasted the same post over 1,000 times here on the site. He will make this post on any forum that mentions on specific keyword. Whether it is germain to the topic or not. His ratio of votes to post is one vote for every 10 posts. He clearly believes in quantity over quality, but his lack of growth as a poster shows he is clearly not being engaged. I see that as a massive waste of time!
Now, what I do find most interesting about self promotion and using links is this. If you post a self serving article on your BP blog page, then you can post that link in the forums as much as you'd like. You can link to your own website through your BP blog and any outside materials you want to create. So, you can use hyperlinks as much as you'd like, just so long as they point back to a BP blog and that blog can be as promotional as you'd like.
In the end, the posters who are giving the best advice, posting good content that is educational, and in general tyrying to be helpful always seem to rise to the top and get not only the most traction, but also the most genuine interaction. It's been that way since the beginning and I imagine it will remain that way. We'll see ~
Does beating the 1% rule apply to votes to posts ratio as well?
- Lender Ā· Los Angeles, CA Ā· Member since 2009 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
Equally annoying are those that donāt self-promote but consistently add nothing of value in their one-line posts. Iām talking about those that write, in effect, āPM me and Iāll answer your question,ā or, āLetās network,ā as if they have something proprietary to share which no one else could or should possibly know.
Part of the benefit of this board is the public scrutiny your post must endure to be deemed credible. Why anyone would respect the opinion or information shared by someone who wonāt undergo this scrutiny is beyond me.
I find the best feature in my settings is what is now called āMuted Members.ā Over the years Iāve been able to silence many of the more cringeworthy repeat offenders from my alerts. Has kept me from tearing my remaining hair out on occasion.
- Rental Property Investor Ā· Douglas County, MO Ā· Member since 2014 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 1k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jeff S.:
I find the best feature in my settings is what is now called āMuted Members.ā Over the years Iāve been able to silence many of the more cringeworthy repeat offenders from my alerts. Has kept me from tearing my remaining hair out on occasion.
How exactly do you do that? That option seems to have disappeared for me.
- Lender Ā· Los Angeles, CA Ā· Member since 2009 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
Click the down arrow next to your photo at the very top right. Select Settings from the dropdown menu. Chose Keyword Alerts at the center of the menu near the top. Hereās what I see when I do this:
Then, select Manage muted users.I honestly havenāt done this in a while and now I donāt see a way to add names to my existing list, though it looks like I can remove names. Hope this feature is still available.
- Attorney Ā· Raleigh, NC Ā· Member since 2008 Ā· 4k+ posts Ā· 1k+ votes6y
It's amusing stuff, especially when you draw back the curtain. It's an information world now and you can find out easily that Mr. Super Duper Millionaire lives in a basic middle class house and still has to go to his day job.
- Real Estate Broker Ā· Redwood City, CA Ā· Member since 2014 Ā· 679 posts Ā· 888 votes6y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Trent Chance:
@Jeff Cagle let me play devil's advocate.
I get what everyone is saying but I've also learned a lot from posts that some are probably categorizing in this way.
I don't want anyone to get scammed bit not everyone is scamming. Some are just doing common sense marketing that actually provides value to everyone and maybe 1% of the readers will actually end up investing with them.
These posts helped go from 1 home to soon to be a over $1M in cash flowing assets in a year.
Maybe I should write a book š
I mean even Bigger Pockets materials are marketed in the same manner.
I couldn't even finish the house hacking book as it was just.
The same stuff we've read rehashed over and over for like 200 pages.
I agree and even the term "scam" is subjective. Some people make bad investing decisions, then later claim they were "scammed." Back in 2004 my stock broker showed me mutual fund charts with double digit returns. Then in 2008 he lost 30% of my money. Was I scammed? He sure did mislead me, but I would hardly call it a scam. We all have trouble acknowledging our own mistakes and admitting when we fell for a sales pitch.
Hard selling is different from scam. Scam means that using fake accounts, made up billionaire, made up wealth to attract newbies. Fair marking is fine, as long as it is properly disclosed with the risks and the interest involved. Some folks promoting OOS TK here are using obvious self proclaimed wealth, self written certificate of proclamation from city, made up stories to cheat on people. That is SCAM.
If a salesperson is trying to sell you a stock, he can show the previous performance, with no guarantee of future performance. However, if he claims that he is a billionaire from this stock, but actually is bankrupt, that is a SCAM.
Too many fake accounts, too many self promoters, too much false information.
- Investor Ā· Baltimore, MD Ā· Member since 2008 Ā· 17k+ posts Ā· 13k+ votes6y
@Jeff S. requesting a PM is specifically against the rules. You can report that as I mentioned above.
What I find annoying is someone saying "I just PMed you" Really does everyone else on the site need to know.
@Sylvia B. If you click the three green dots to the upper right of the post you can select "Ignore User" I believe this will do what you want.
- Investor Ā· Youngstown, OH Ā· Member since 2017 Ā· 2k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
I don't see too many self-promoting posts. Maybe I'm not hanging out where the cool kids are.
I do see, "Im new and hav no money 250 credit score pleaz be my mentr" every. damn. day. I know it's unavoidable, and I try to either be kind or ignore the post as I really do want to help those who need it most. But it's hard to ignore the urge to tell them the first step is to get off BP and go work on some basic grammar skills so they can communicate more professionally.
- Lender Ā· Los Angeles, CA Ā· Member since 2009 Ā· 1k+ posts Ā· 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:
@Jeff S. requesting a PM is specifically against the rules. You can report that as I mentioned above.
What I find annoying is someone saying "I just PMed you" Really does everyone else on the site need to know.
@Sylvia B. If you click the three green dots to the upper right of the post you can select "Ignore User" I believe this will do what you want.
Thanks, Ned. I just sent you a PM.
No, just kidding.
When I click on the three green dots I get "Quote" and "Report Abuse."
"Ignore User" doesn't seem to exist anymore (???). Has it been moved?
Thanks.
- Rental Property Investor Ā· San Diego, CA Ā· Member since 2013 Ā· 3k+ posts Ā· 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:
It's the same problem anywhere that forums are fully public-facing and especially prevalent in real estate where everyone is trying to sell you something or get something for nothing. I find the self-promotion just as bad as the low bar set for what is acceptable to post. Just as bad as someone creating posts about himself and how he is being sued and how this and that is the posts that just say Need Advice - what should I do as a new investor? That's it.
It's not BP's fault, there is just way too much coming in for the moderators to work with. And it's not BP's job to weed out stupid posts, but the self-serving ones should be flagged. I flag all the time, but never get an update if it went off the site or not.
Real estate is a business built on training people how to self-flagellate all day long. It doesn't work. I don't know why the self-promoters don't get that. Just add some value and wait for it to come back to you.
I wouldn't say "Everyone" is trying to sell you something. Just those with signatures that put their logo, business name, website, phone number, and a big green "Contact" button link
(jk man) - Rental Property Investor Ā· San Diego, CA Ā· Member since 2013 Ā· 3k+ posts Ā· 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Dan H.:
Originally posted by @Edit B.:
@Jeff Cagle I couldnāt agree more.
First of all itās sort of heart breaking. Iām reading this last āhotelā guys post and comments yesterday thinking this is why I love BP. People just sharing their ideas no matter how big they are, and thatās awesome. I keep reading to find out this is one long pitch and self promotion. What an *******..
That is not only cringe but extremely disingenuous and in my opinion should get the person banned. You are supposedly giving advice. But to give advice with a hidden agenda is not giving advice, itās manipulating people that know less than you. Itās sort of like fooling old people. Sure we could allow anyone that doesnāt know enough to be fooled by these people, but thatās a pretty ****** community, donāt we all think?
Aside from that if we allow people like that to act freely here this place will become a **** show and the information will not be worth much as one cannot trust it.
I saw the referenced thread. My only complaint was that it was not in the marketplace where I felt it belonged. He clearly was raising capital. The intent of the thread was to raise capital. The way he could increase the views to his podcast to raise capital was: We closed on N percent of all apartments in the City of Y in year X. Or City Y dedicated a day to me. A lot of self promotion. I am not in a position to say the self promotion was BS but clearly some people believe it is. I want to believe the claims of the various posters but of course would not invest with any without verifying. I figure it is little impact to me if someone exaggerates their accomplishments. I will also say it is easy to want to list your RE accomplishments.
There was a post today where I compared two markets. Both markets I have invested in. Someone implied that I did not know what I was referring to. I basically did a short reply of my experience in the market in question. It is hard not to get defensive in these situations but the mature thing is to not get defensive.
I just felt the thread belong in the marketplace. He was clearly marketing.
The downside to the marketplace is sometimes I'll see a post there (due to a keyword) and I'll want to comment, but I can't, because I'm not "Pro" (or "professional", or "gold", or "super mega", or whatever it's called now. I noticed there are several tiers).
Hey BP: I'll pay for "Pro", or some type of it, if you make some tier that has a bar set that's not JUST about paying each month. Maybe some tier that allows a forum only for people with x # of deals under their belt? It would make asking questions and having them seem by others that are 'deal do'ers' much easier. - Rental Property Investor Ā· San Diego, CA Ā· Member since 2013 Ā· 3k+ posts Ā· 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Edit B.:
@Jeff Cagle I couldnāt agree more.
Hotel guy is annoying.....hijacking threads.
Can you link? I still haven't seen (either while browsing over the years, or via examples in this tread) a link to what people might be talking about.
- Rental Property Investor Ā· San Diego, CA Ā· Member since 2013 Ā· 3k+ posts Ā· 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @James Dickens:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Pankaj Sharma:
@Jeff Cagle I
There's a certain amount of irony for someone getting moderated for posting a link by a moderator with four links in their signature. :)
Underrated comment. There was a topic about mortgage wraps. I shared a link to a blog post that simply discusses wraps. It was deleted for "self promotion". I just eye rolled and decided not to share any links to anything anymore. (and yeah, I also thought it was weird as if I wanted to "self promote" I'd have contact info in my sig and in my bio. The only way someone could find my contact info is if they went back to posts of mine from way back.
- 6yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor Ā· Poway, CA Ā· Member since 2015 Ā· 7k+ posts Ā· 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Edit B.:
@Jeff Cagle I couldnāt agree more.
Hotel guy is annoying.....hijacking threads.
Can you link? I still haven't seen (either while browsing over the years, or via examples in this tread) a link to what people might be talking about.
It is a long thread but it does not take long to determine that it is going to be a solicitation for investors. Then there is the self promotion that I and others reference (mine was a bit more specific). I am not calling the self promotion BS but others are. I certainly would not invest with anyone without a thorough vetting. My own belief is that he is likely quite successful but there may be some exaggeration.
Remember you requested this. Enjoy.... LOL
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