How do you be a successful C-Class and WAR zone landlord?

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Real Estate Investor · Springfield, MO · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

For starters, we need to fix the title of the post.  "Class C" doesn't mean war zone.  Those who think it does have a very limited understanding of what buying cheap, older properties is all about.  

I invest exclusively in Class C homes currently, although looking to transition into the B-/B arena and MFs.

There are several tools/processes I've found very practical and useful for managing Class C profitably:

1) 3x per year we get INSIDE to inspect our unit.  Change furnace/AC filters at the same time.  Make sure they have a trash cart on premises b/c if they don't I guarantee it's being stored in the garage, basement, attic, etc.

2) During screening, we actually go to where they live currently and look, smell, and listen to how their current home is.  If it's out of town, hire a local starving floor duty agent from any realty company to do it.

3) Zero tolerance on late/partial pays.  In my state there is no required grace period and we aren't required to post a Pay or Quit, so we file on Day 7 past due on ANY balance unpaid without exception.  They can always catch up or go onto a different payment plan to avert an actual eviction, but you cannot listen to or permit their "stories" to steal your income.  Some may be legit, but it really doesn't matter.  Pay and stay. No dough...out you go!

4) Iron clad, simple lease.  Everything spelled out in language a 5th grader can understand.  Get rid of all the "wherewithals, heretofores, and undersigneds"....  If they can't understand it, they won't follow it.  Heck, they don't always abide by the stuff that says: "If TENANT doesn't pay in full, on time, every time, then the LANDLORD may evict."  K.I.S.S.

5) Get rid of features that are expensive to maintain and do not earn you a dime of extra rent.  Carpets, dishwashers, garbage disposals, outside water spigots, landscaping, etc.

6) Make upgrades/repairs using very durable items.  I don't do carpet: vinyl plank, tile, or hardwoods only.  Basically, if you see it on the floor of your local Wal-Mart, it's probably a good choice because they cater to the same crowd and they know what works.  Leverage their knowledge.

7) Hire out the turn overs and the cleaning.  It gets too depressing DIY after a while, and your wife/girlfriend will not be pleased if you expect her to do it (unless she already owns a cleaning business).

At the end of the day, your model is based on cash flow.  Appreciation is minuscule or non-existent.  If you keep all that in mind, you can succeed.

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  • Specialist · Orlando, FL · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Pat L. Hey! Thanks for this response! I’m just starting out on this. Can you elaborate more on the “hand off”

    You identify a property in a bad area, purchase it, and then resell it to a local and have them make payments on it? What’s your vetting process? Have you had a local just stop paying and disappear?

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Charlie Moore:

    @Pat L.

    Do you personally own some in the c class?

    Not any more & if we did it was until it was 're-assigned'. Although the majority were acquired as foreclosures & from tax lien auctions we usually had a 'buyer' already in play. Some of these 'buyers' did walk away, so we would then simply take it back & re-sell 'as is'. The decision to 'walk away' varied, several moved out of state, some bought a more expensive property from us with a higher/door income stream or just had a string of bad tenants & gave up. But in all cases they still paid & we rarely had any significant expenses in taking them back. After some years of on-time payments many were actually sold to the investor & we continue to hold the notes. 

    One investor family will take anything we have that comes due, (10 to date). They instinctively know the market & have been very successful in keeping the properties fully rented & well maintained.

  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed  too funny, for 6k it has to be a total POS, , no thanks , Rather spend 30k for less work, . Why would you sell it I assume you paid 1, 2 k for it , but again, Im sure its a total wreck 

    Good Luck 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Charlie Moore I sold all my C class properties, which solved 90% of my problems. I only buy B or even A class now. 

    I would rater have 10 diamonds than 100 lumps of coal.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    This is a lucrative, but tough niche.  For out of state, passive investors, do not buy turn key properties in these types of areas.

    I believe it is difficult to survive unless you utilize the section 8 program.  There are lots of defaults, and therefore you will be evicting, repairing and re-tenanting properties all the time.  

    It is very hard to screen in an impoverished neighborhood.  Even good tenants have a high risk default because they don't have any financial back up.  Lose their job, and they stop paying rent.

  • Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Bob Prisco what’s the process for getting your property set up for section 8 tenants?

  • Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting thanks for this was. Extremely helpful!

  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
    6y

    @Akuda Esin do proper rehab/ repairs. Everything must be perfect. 

  • Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting very informative simple and straight to the point. Are their any books that you would recommend on "c" rental properties?

  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Charlie Moore:
    Originally posted by @Michael Ealy:
    Originally posted by @Charlie Moore:

    Different markets surely require different practices...

    How do you manage your c class and urban properties?

     War zones are where I started. I made money with them.

    I made even more money with properties in D areas. Here's my first $1 MILLION profit deal in a D area which, luckily for me, transitioned and became a C area:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/644570-how-i-made-over-1-million-on-1-deal-after-6-years-of-headaches

    I own 1,000 apartment units, and a significant portion of them are in C neighborhoods (and some in Bs and a few in As) and I have 50/50 split between section 8 and market tenants. 

    I used to manage them personally but I put up my own property management company to ensure they are managed well.

    Having said the above, I buy more Bs and As now than Cs and Ds. As and Bs have less work/less stress & more profit over the long run.

    So, yes, you can succeed with properties in C areas and even in the war zones. BUT, it's a lot of work, a lot of stress, and to be honest, it's not for everyone, specially newbie investors.

     Mr. Early, the fact you own over 1k units is an american dream and a true blessing congrats.

    My goal: 100 units by age 40 ( 14 years to achieve this)

    I believe 100 units is when you become truly "Rich" and "Wealthy" 

     Charlie,

    Thanks. It's EALY not Early :)

    Don't focus so much on the number of units. In every deal, I focus on the money that I can make - it's all about the profit, cashflow and the return on my investors' capital.

    I've actually acquired 3,000 apartment units but in the process sold 2,000 and kept 1,000. I've been doing this since 1999 so it's not really that big of a deal. You can do it too but you need to study the basics, take a lot of action and network like crazy. If you can do those 3 things, you will succeed in real estate investing.

  • Chicago · Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Pat L. Are you talking about seller financing?

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenville County SC / Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 403 posts · 120 votes
    6y

    @Pat L. Great strategy. Do you do 15 year / 30 year financing when you pass off to those type of investors ?

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenville County SC / Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 403 posts · 120 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting This was super helpful , this is when you run your real estate business like a business 👏🏾

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting

    Thanks for all the insider info!!! Your experience is most helpful!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting Great advice, Erik.

  • Rental Property Investor · D.C · Member since 2019 · 501 posts · 102 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Charlie Moore I sold all my C class properties, which solved 90% of my problems. I only buy B or even A class now. 

    I would rater have 10 diamonds than 100 lumps of coal.

     Joe, The B class costs alot of money tho! 

  • Rental Property Investor · D.C · Member since 2019 · 501 posts · 102 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    By being a professional, dedicated slum lord. Apparently it works, if you're willing to have that be your life. 

    CLOWN 

  • Rental Property Investor · D.C · Member since 2019 · 501 posts · 102 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Angelo Mart:

    I am not an expert on this but I know a lot. C Class and D Class are different markets between one another. I have a home that most investors call a "D" market but I think of it as a "C" market since it is the better neighborhood with a "D" ghetto city.

    I have two Section 8 tenants along with direct access to their Section 8 Case Workers. I have a pro active approach i.e. reporting to roach infestation and leaks ASAP as it it were an emergency. I screened and hired a great Property Manager and have a great highly experienced landlord / tenant attorney on speed dial if need be. I also have a couple local handymen for back up. With this approach you can scale the business and grow with a rough area. I met real investors in the middle of Newark NJ that utilize this approach and are up to 100+ units already. It has been working out great for me

    Every city has its ghetto, every ghetto has its hood...Take a good look around you as there is a D Block near you - Eminem

     Any more tips for me to survive in this sector?

  • Rental Property Investor · D.C · Member since 2019 · 501 posts · 102 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Ealy:
    Originally posted by @Charlie Moore:
    Originally posted by @Michael Ealy:
    Originally posted by @Charlie Moore:

    Different markets surely require different practices...

    How do you manage your c class and urban properties?

     War zones are where I started. I made money with them.

    I made even more money with properties in D areas. Here's my first $1 MILLION profit deal in a D area which, luckily for me, transitioned and became a C area:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/644570-how-i-made-over-1-million-on-1-deal-after-6-years-of-headaches

    I own 1,000 apartment units, and a significant portion of them are in C neighborhoods (and some in Bs and a few in As) and I have 50/50 split between section 8 and market tenants. 

    I used to manage them personally but I put up my own property management company to ensure they are managed well.

    Having said the above, I buy more Bs and As now than Cs and Ds. As and Bs have less work/less stress & more profit over the long run.

    So, yes, you can succeed with properties in C areas and even in the war zones. BUT, it's a lot of work, a lot of stress, and to be honest, it's not for everyone, specially newbie investors.

     Mr. Early, the fact you own over 1k units is an american dream and a true blessing congrats.

    My goal: 100 units by age 40 ( 14 years to achieve this)

    I believe 100 units is when you become truly "Rich" and "Wealthy" 

     Charlie,

    Thanks. It's EALY not Early :)

    Don't focus so much on the number of units. In every deal, I focus on the money that I can make - it's all about the profit, cashflow and the return on my investors' capital.

    I've actually acquired 3,000 apartment units but in the process sold 2,000 and kept 1,000. I've been doing this since 1999 so it's not really that big of a deal. You can do it too but you need to study the basics, take a lot of action and network like crazy. If you can do those 3 things, you will succeed in real estate investing.

    Sorry for the incorrect spelling lol

    Anymore places that i can go to find out tips?

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    C class and war zone are very different asset classes . There is so much to type but basically you gotta be as savage as your tenant base . You have to be the kind of investor willing to do nasty stuff and put up with things other investors would simply not be willing to deal with to make money . 

    Big hearted ,timid ,or soft type people will find these lower income classes especially hard to manage . The tenants will steamroll over you . One of the best strategies is often overlooked . Pat L briefly discussed it . Becoming the bank instead of the landlord is a powerful tool in these places if you understand how to implement it . It’s better than tenants toilets termites and trash 

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    6y

    @Charlie Moore

    Quarterly inspections.

    Fast evictions

    Good tenant screening

    All done by employees not you so you can buy more of them.

    Now your self managed class A 3 cap takes more attention than my C+ buildings from an ownership standpoint.

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    As you said, different markets surely require different practices. Just like we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

    Are you throwing Orwell at us?  

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    By being a professional, dedicated slum lord. Apparently it works, if you're willing to have that be your life. 

    Wrong. And good landlords resent that mentality.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 346 posts · 170 votes
    6y

    @Erik Whiting

    Excellent description Erik. Thank you for sharing that

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 584 posts · 813 votes
    6y

    I have several D and a couple C properties. It’s all about being a leader in the community. I love the Section 8 housing program in these areas. I personally would rather have a government deposit each month than an A class renter even, but that is me. Treat people well, and they might stay out the duration of their lives. Provide a gorgeous product and be a responsive landlord, easy. Also, I try to pretty much stay out of their hair once they are placed. If you move to evict for being dirty or something trivial, you’ll make less than I do. :)

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