CA newbie looking for Out of State

[William Hoppes]

Hi, my name is William Hoppes and I'm looking to try small multifamily REI. I'm looking for passive income/higher returns; I like my Vanguard funds but I'm willing to take on some risk/work to get those returns from 10%->20%. I live in Sacramento CA and I've accepted that investing locally isn't really feasible so I'm looking out of state. I won't say it's impossible to do multifamily/passive-income in CA, I just doubt "I" can.

I've got no real estate experience, lifetime renter, so I've got a lot of learning to do and I'm looking for a market with enough cash flow/cheap enough that I can afford to make some mistakes. So far I've been looking at large-ish cities with the best price-to-rent ratios from Zillow research and then looking up forum posts to see what people are saying. So far the big three I'm looking at are Cleveland, Kansas City, and Albany NY. 

I would appreciate any advice, especially from people doing out of state investing. Thanks in advance!

[Nathan Roberts]

Hi @William Hoppes,

Kansas City is definitely a great market to find properties that rent out for at least a 1% rent-to-purchase price ratio and can give you returns of 10%+. Demographics about Kansas City are below:

Population: 489K

Median Home Value: $190K

Median Household Income: $54K

Population growth: 1.26%

Unemployment: 3.6%

Great areas that would suit your criteria will include, but are not limited to, Historic Northeast, Raytown, South KC, Grandview, core of the city between Troost and Paseo from 27th to 63rd street (some pockets will not offer these returns), etc. I believe the best property management company in the city is Voepel Property Management (VPM); they strictly manage investment properties for investors. VPM is able to manage any rehab you may need as well. Let me know if I can help you out in any way, I have a plethora of resources that I can provide to you. Feel free to inbox me!

[Mike D'Arrigo]

@William Hoppes Kansas City is a great cash flow market when you know the neighborhoods and buy the right class of property, this is especially true of multi family which is often times located in lower end neighborhoods. We've been active in KC for several years. Feel free to reach out if you want some insights.

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @William Hoppes:

Hi, my name is William Hoppes and I'm looking to try small multifamily REI. I'm looking for passive income/higher returns; I like my Vanguard funds but I'm willing to take on some risk/work to get those returns from 10%->20%. I live in Sacramento CA and I've accepted that investing locally isn't really feasible so I'm looking out of state. I won't say it's impossible to do multifamily/passive-income in CA, I just doubt "I" can.

I've got no real estate experience, lifetime renter, so I've got a lot of learning to do and I'm looking for a market with enough cash flow/cheap enough that I can afford to make some mistakes. So far I've been looking at large-ish cities with the best price-to-rent ratios from Zillow research and then looking up forum posts to see what people are saying. So far the big three I'm looking at are Cleveland, Kansas City, and Albany NY. 

I would appreciate any advice, especially from people doing out of state investing and/or finding good property managers. Thanks in advance!

 Welcome to the site William. I saw Cleveland was on your big 3. Check out The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods for some more information on Cleveland. Tons of opportunity but as with any new market if you get into an area that's different from what you expected you can be heavily exposed to risk. 

[Scott R.]

The continued downward trend of Cleveland's population would give me pause before investing there. The proformas look great today but curious what they look like in 5 yrs when you want to sell.

[Dan Krupa]

As a former Western NYer do not own there! The landlord laws are terrible and winters are brutal. Stick to the midwest. You are on the right track there. 

[Sean Sullivan]

I have several properties in Cleveland. Would be happy to point you in the direction of a good agent who is tied in with a property management/insurance company.

[Taylor Roeling]

@William Hoppes Congrats and welcome to Bigger Pockets! You have definitely come to the right place to ask questions. Cleveland, Kansas City, and Albany are definitely hot markets to invest in. I would also do some research on certain college towns in those states and around the country. There are many pros to investing in college towns such as simple marketing since the town will sell itself and, most importantly, there will always be a need for tenants! Best of luck in your search. 

[Ellie Perlman]

How Do You Make Sure You Invest in A Strong Real Estate Market?

When you consider investing with a Lead Investor in a certain market, you must evaluate how strong the market is. Don’t let the flashy OM (Offering Memorandum) fool you. You absolutely have to know the market. It seems like a lot of work but, in the Internet Age today, the information is at the tip of your fingers. All you have to do is know what you are looking for. In this article, I will lay out the critical factors that will help you determine what to look for, as well as where to find the answers.

Let's start with the five main factors that you must take into consideration when you evaluate a market:

• 1.Population growth – A solid market is one that has population growth. Markets that have flat or negative population growth can indicate a problem, while markets that continuously have people moving into them is a sign that there will be more demand for apartments. One of the markets with the highest population growth is Dallas, TX, while the Providence, RI market has shown no significant population growth at all.
• Where to find information?
• Simply google it! For example, search “Jacksonville population” and you’ll see the trend. Focus on the last 5-10 years.
• 2.Job Growth – Population usually follows jobs, and a great market is one that adds many new jobs each year. I usually look for markets with an unemployment rate that is lower than the national average (4.1%). In addition to evaluating the city job growth, you need to pay attention to any major industry or employer that may be responsible for more than 25% of the market, because if the dominant industry or employer is in trouble so is your property (due to layoffs). A solid market is one that has steady job growth and a diverse economy.
• Where to find information?
• www.city-data.com and www.census.gov.
• 3.Rent Growth – A strong multifamily market is a market that has increasing rents. If rents are in a downward trend, then your property might suffer from declining rents as well. This is also a rule of thumb, and each investment is unique, but general speaking I try to stay away from markets that have a declining rent trend.

Where to find information?

www.census.gov has information on the average rent in the past several years in major cities.

• 4.Appreciation Potential – The lion share of the profits is made when you sell the property. This is why appreciation is key. I look at markets that have strong appreciation potential, and if property values are increasing, it is more likely that I’d be able to sell my investment at a significantly higher price than when I bought it. This is why I believe that you make money when you sell a property, not when you buy it. A word of caution, though: real estate is a cyclical business, and even markets with strong appreciation can suffer when the economy turns. A market with increasing prices is not a guarantee that you’ll make profit when you exit, but it’s a safer market to be in when you buy.
• Where to find information?
• Many large brokerage firms offer free reports that show rents and real estate prices. You can find the reports from reputable companies such as CBRE, Marcus and Millichap, Yardi Metrix, etc.

• 5.Landlord Friendly State – Landlord-friendly markets have a direct impact on real estate and the return of the investments. Some states, such as California, are very tenant-friendly, which means that it can take up to 9 and even 11 months to evict an unpaying tenant while, in the meantime, you pay for the mortgage and the expenses. Other states, such as Texas and Florida, are landlord-friendly and provide owners with a quick eviction process.
• Where to find information?
• Simply Google: “How long does it take to evict an unpaying tenant in …”
• Summary
• All in all, it might take you 1-2 hours to gather the information, but while there’s a chance it might also be in the Lead Investor’s package, it’s always good to do your own research. At some point, you will become knowledgeable in certain markets and that knowledge will give you the confidence to invest alongside a Lead Investor.

[Michael Wallimann]

@Nathan Roberts Thank you for the KC info! A friend of mine @Nick Elg has been digging into this market as well and might gain some good insight from this post.