CASE STUDY: How to Steal an Overpriced, High D.O.M Property

CASE STUDY: How to Steal an Overpriced, High D.O.M Property

Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes

As most of you know, Sacramento is a super competitive market right now. Every time a new listing hits the MLS, it's literally a matter of hours before the first offer rolls in (and several more after it), which makes it incredibly difficult to get your offer accepted and beat the competition.

For those of you who have felt the sting of losing out on an amazing deal because somebody else came above you with all cash, I have a suggestion for you... 

Try looking at overpriced properties that have been on the market a really long time.

When a new listing hits the MLS, every single person looking for a property like that is notified via email. That means the property will get the most views and attention when it's new, and plenty of investors are just waiting in the wings to jump on a properties like this when they hit the market.

Every single transaction I've been involved in lately is a multiple offer scenario. I've been involved in transactions with 8 offers, 14 offers, 17 offers!!! Hell, I just put up a listing the other day and had 5 offers in the first 48 hours. And each offer that comes in is higher than the last one, making it all the more difficult for an investor to get the property at a price that makes the numbers work.

BUT -- the overpriced property that has been sitting on the market 3 months has ZERO offers, and everybody is passing it up because they can easily see it's simply not worth the asking price.

THE PROBLEM WITH OVERPRICING

Overpricing is the "Original Sin" of the real estate industry, and it causes more problems for sellers now more than ever before. And that's because every single buyer can look on their phone at Zillow, Trulia, Realtor.com, etc. and see all the comps in a matter of seconds. 

So they instantly know your asking price is absolutely ridiculous. It wasn't like this back in the 90's, but now buyers have more information than ever right at their fingertips... literally.

When a property is overpriced, it doesn't sell. And when it doesn't sell, it accumulates high days-on-market. And then buyers start to wonder "What's wrong with that house? How come it hasn't sold yet? Something MUST be wrong with it!" 

Even if absolutely nothing is wrong with the property, buyers will THINK there is. This negative perception leads to either no offers or low offers, and is the reason most properties don't sell in today's market. There is a beautifully remodeled property sitting on the market right around the corner from my house, that won't sell because they overpriced it. 

And it's gorgeous, believe me... new kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, paint, appliances, the whole nine. But they're asking $36 per square foot above the average for the neighborhood, and there are simply no comps to justify this asking price. And so that's why it's been sitting on the market 2 whole months, and will now go below what it would've originally sold for all because of the bad perception from the high days on market.

WHY OVERPRICED, HIGH DAYS-ON-MARKET PROPERTIES OFFER OPPORTUNITY

You may be thinking "Well, that's all great info Wes, but how does it help me?"

Put yourself into the mind of a seller for a minute... you want to sell this property, and have plans for all the money you're going to make. Maybe it's the down payment on your next house, or maybe you'll use it pay down other debt, or maybe it's just a trip to Bermuda for you and the kids.

Each day that goes by and your property doesn't sell, you start to wonder what's the problem... 

"Why isn't my home selling?! That home around the corner sold, although it was a lower price, and it wasn't as nice as mine... maybe the market is bad right now? No, that's not true, I just read about how hot the market is. Maybe it's the agent?... Yeah! That's it! I hired them to sell my home, and they haven't brought me a single reasonable* offer! It's all their fault!!!"

(*Maybe they did bring a reasonable offer, but the seller has a different definition of "reasonable")

Now put yourself into the mind of the agent listing the home...

"This seller is nuts if he thinks he's going to get this price, but I told him that's what it was worth so he would hire me instead the other realistic agents. But no one is biting! Crap, if I don't get this thing sold soon the listing is going to expire or they're going to cancel, and then I'm out a commission! I wish someone would make an offer so I at least have something to work with!"

Are you beginning to see why this type of scenario offers some opportunity for you? The seller needs their trip to Bermuda, the agent needs their commission check, and you need a deal. The best part is you'll be the only offer on the table for consideration, so your chances of getting it accepted are much higher :-)

CASE STUDY: 1139 Clinton Rd, Sacramento, CA 95825

1139 Clinton Rd is a duplex in the 95825 zip code near the Arden Fair Mall and Sac State. It's on a street that's full of cookie cutter duplexes, so it's extremely easy to comp. Crime isn't too bad, and you mostly have domestic violence related assaults which are very common in areas with high population density and lots of renters. Here's the crime map from the past 3 months:

No murders, no muggings, and only 1 burglary. Whoopty-do. Here are the numbers:

1139 Clinton Rd - On the Market 81 Days
Duplex, 2/1's, 900 sq ft each
Price: $324,900
Cost Per Unit: $162,450
25% Down: $81,225
PITI at 5% Interest: $1,741
Gross Monthly Rents: $2,190
Gross Annual Rents: $26,280
PITI Cashflow Monthly: $449 
PITI Cashflow Yearly: $5,388
Gross Rent Multiplier: 12.36
1% Test: 0.67%
Gross Annual Yield: 8.09%
PITI Cash-on-Cash Return: 6.63%

Here's the property description from the MLS: "New Plumbing, Roof, Water Heaters, Interior Paint, Blinds, Flooring and Carpet installed in 2015. Recent remodeling includes new dishwasher, stove, kitchen counter tops and shower tub in one of the units."

Now, the numbers aren't anything to write home about, and while it's great that so much on the property has been updated and replaced, by the time you figure in utilities your returns are too low to make this a worthwhile deal.

Now, let's look at the comps:

Uhm... notice something here? All the comps sold for WAY below the current asking price. Here are their addresses and the days on market before they sold:

1150 Clinton Rd - $257k -- Sold in 7 Days
1207 Clinton Rd - $259k -- Sold in 14 Days
1108 Clinton Rd - $273k -- Sold in 9 Days

This property is priced at $325k and has been on the market 81 days. But all of the comps on the same street sold in two weeks or less... why? Because they had an average price of $267k.

Someone is dreaming, whether it's the seller or the listing agent. They will NEVER sell at that high price and it will NEVER appraise for that amount even if they got an offer. I've got 3 comps that are all no more than 7 houses down, so there's no way to justify a price above $275k absolute max.

This is the classic case of the seller making repairs to a property and then trying to pass that cost onto the buyer when they sell, and it simply doesn't work that way. You could spend $100,000 to put a bowling alley in your house, but that doesn't mean your house is automatically worth $100k more when you do. Therefore, a $50,000 price reduction in this case is completely justified.

Here are the numbers with the new lowered purchase price based on comps:

1139 Clinton Rd
Duplex, 2/1's, 900 sq ft each
Price: $275,000
Cost Per Unit: $137,500
25% Down: $68,750
PITI at 5% Interest: $1,474
Gross Monthly Rents: $2,190
Gross Annual Rents: $26,280
PITI Cashflow Monthly: $716
PITI Cashflow Yearly: $8,592
Gross Rent Multiplier: 10.46
1% Test: 0.80%
Gross Annual Yield: 9.56%
PITI Cash-on-Cash Return: 12.50%

Those are much better numbers than before, with an additional $267 per month in cash flow and an additional savings of $50,000. And it's completely justified. You're not low-balling, it's all right there in the comps. Simply present the facts and make a logical argument for a lower price.

FIND A PROPERTY YOU WANT, THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT PRICE WORKS FOR YOU

This all goes back to a classic Bigger Pockets mantra "Find a deal you like, and then figure out what purchase price works for you." At face value a $50,000 discount seems like a lot, but when you look at all the comps you can easily see that the property is grossly overpriced. That's why no one has bought it yet and it continues to sit. Here are all duplexes sold in the last 6 months:

$275k seems to be the "price ceiling" for the neighborhood, and duplexes in this neighborhood sell for ~$256k on average. So even though you have some new flooring, counter tops, etc. it's simply not worth an extra $50k in purchase price. Even if you offered that amount it'd never appraise.

The lesson to be learned is that there are plenty of deals out there, it's just that you're passing them over because the price is currently way too high. Granted, this isn't a deal until the seller agrees to accept a lower price, but the comps are all right there for you to justify it. 

There are surely more examples just like this one. In fact, there are currently 16 multifamily properties with more than 200 days on market (as high as 383!) There are even more for SFR.

So what are you waiting for? Get out there and steal those overpriced properties! :-)

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Investor/Realtor · Folsom, CA · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 10 votes
9y

@Wes Blackwell

Great study post Wes

I believe it may be sitting on market so long and warrants a lower price because it backs right up to an active train run.....see the train tracks?  Also may be harder to rent at an increased amount because of the noise.

Missing are the expenses.  I would add in monthly expenses:

5% vacancy

5% maintenance

6% capital expenditures

10% property manager (i manage mine own but if I ever got tired of it I have that # worked in)

$390 needs to be included in the equation:

It still cash flows at the lower price, however the number is $151 a month.  These are real expenses that need to be worked in.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Winters, CA · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    I love your analytics! I'm new to the Sacramento area (have investments in Oakland) and this analysis is extremely helpful. Do you find this is also the scenario for larger apartment buildings?

  • Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 289 posts · 151 votes
    9y

    Hey @Wes Blackwell I've really been liking the analyses you've been posting. 

    The one thing I'd add is that I'd really want to see the description of that 275k comp. If it had all the similar upgrades the case study property, than I'd completely agree with the conclusion. If it didn't, then I'd think the "true" price for this property would be a little higher, some where in the $290 range. Additionally, we don't know what kind of offers the seller might have been turning down, so they might not be ready for a reasonable offer.

  • Investor · Mission Hills, KS · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 11 votes
    9y

     well written great article!

  • Investor/Realtor · Folsom, CA · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 10 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Derek Daun:

    Hey @Wes Blackwell I've really been liking the analyses you've been posting. 

    The one thing I'd add is that I'd really want to see the description of that 275k comp. If it had all the similar upgrades the case study property, than I'd completely agree with the conclusion. If it didn't, then I'd think the "true" price for this property would be a little higher, some where in the $290 range. Additionally, we don't know what kind of offers the seller might have been turning down, so they might not be ready for a reasonable offer.

     Great post Wes

    Derek...I took a look at the 275K and it is actually 3/2 and 2/1 with more square footage with 1 unit updated and the other dated.  However the one for 259K pretty much has all the improvements that the $325 one is offering.  Hopefully the seller will come to reality or maybe he does not really want to sell and is in no hurry.  He may be just testing the waters to see what the market is telling him.  I have found that to be so with many homes that have been sitting on the market.  Seller are just in no hurry.

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    That's a VERY GOOD CASE STUDY!! Bravo to you sir.

    The negotiation point is "The average comp is $XXX and you are over that by $YYY.   I'll offer $XXX or you can sit on it for another zz DOM and still face no offers" - - aka highlight the pain.

  • Investor/Realtor · Folsom, CA · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 10 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jeff B.:

    That's a VERY GOOD CASE STUDY!! Bravo to you sir.

    The negotiation point is "The average comp is $XXX and you are over that by $YYY.   I'll offer $XXX or you can sit on it for another zz DOM and still face no offers" - - aka highlight the pain.

     Good words Jeff....if they really want to sell.  Too many times I have danced around with sellers and when they do not move forward I have found they really don't want to sell and down the road when it goes off market I've found out that they changed their mind about selling.   There is truth to both sides...there are both sides to the coin and they really do want to sell but want a certain number and eventually they do sell at a discount.  So with properties sitting on the market I have learned to find out in the beginning if they really want to sell.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Great post @Wes Blackwell.

    Somehow, however, I do not think the listing agent is going to appreciate the free marketing you're doing for this property, ha!

  • Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    CASE STUDY #2: 4411 79th St, Sacramento, CA 95820

    4411 79th St is a duplex in the 95820 zip code near Power Inn Rd just south of Hwy 50. It's on a street that's full of cookie cutter duplexes, so it's extremely easy to comp. This is a typical C class neighborhood in an industrial area, but once again, crime isn't as bad as you'd think it would be. 

    This time you have zero violence in the last 6 months, and it's mostly just stolen cars. This can be typical of lower income neighborhoods, because if you take a look at the Top 10 Most Stolen Cars many of them are 90's imports like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. 20 year old imports are cheap, and generally more reliable than domestic vehicles, which is why lower income areas tends to have more of them. Here's the crime map from the past 6 months:

    4411 79th St - On the Market 286 Days!!!
    Duplex, 2/1 and 3/1, both 625 sq ft
    Price: $199,000
    Cost Per Unit: $99,500
    25% Down: $49,750
    PITI at 5% Interest: $1,067
    Gross Monthly Rents: $1,350
    Gross Annual Rents: $16,200
    PITI Cashflow Monthly: $283
    PITI Cashflow Yearly: $3,396
    Gross Rent Multiplier: 12.28
    1% Test: 0.68%
    Gross Annual Yield: 8.14%
    PITI Cash-on-Cash Return: 6.83%

    Here's part of the property description from the MLS:

    Remodeled in 2009 with new flooring, interior and exterior paint, cabinets and counters, new central HVAC unit and more. Long term Tenants. Excellent cash flow. Close to schools, parks, shopping and has easy freeway access.

    Long term tenants are good, although we may plan to raise the rents. Remodeled not too long ago, and in this price range tenants don't care if you have quartz counters, they just want something nice and clean. HVAC should be in good shape, and should be easy to rent because this is a great location for commuters.

    Now let's take a look at the comps:

    If this property was worth anything near $250k like some of the other duplexes in the area, this property would've sold a long time ago. Therefore, the true comps are the properties that sold for $182k and $189k, which both sold in less than a month. 4411 79th St has been on the market nearly 10 months, and they still haven't lowered the price. So it's pretty easy to see that this property seems to be overpriced by about $10-20k easily.

    If you were able to purchase this property for $179k instead of $199k, that would lower your mortgage payment approximately $108 per month. That still doesn't make the numbers too great, so let's take a look at the possibility of increasing the rents...

    The property at 5871 Wilkinson St that sold for $189k was a duplex with 2/1s, 700 sq ft each, and were rented for $750 each for a total of $1,500 per month. That's close enough in size to 4411 79th St that we should have no problem getting the same amount. I'm guessing that because the tenants have been at the property a long time, the owner simply hasn't kept up with market rents. 

    Here's what the numbers look like with $108 less per month for the mortgage payment and another $150 per month in increased rents:

    4411 79th St
    Duplex, 2/1 and 3/1, both 625 sq ft
    Price: $199,000
    Cost Per Unit: $89,500
    25% Down: $44,750
    PITI at 5% Interest: $959
    Gross Monthly Rents: $1,500
    Gross Annual Rents: $18,000
    PITI Cashflow Monthly: $541
    PITI Cashflow Yearly: $6,492
    Gross Rent Multiplier: 9.94
    1% Test: 0.84%
    Gross Annual Yield: 10.06%
    PITI Cash-on-Cash Return: 14.51%

    Much better! All with a little discount on the price and increasing rents to the market rate. Piece of cake. No upgrades, rehabs, remodels, or repairs needed. Just some simple math.

    Granted, this is all dependent on the seller accepting an offer for $179k, but it's been nearly a year and he hasn't sold at $199k, so he's never going to. Stuff like this is all over the place, you just have to do a little extra research into the comps and the possible rents.

  • Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2016 · 171 posts · 63 votes
    9y

    This is awesome Wes. I'm working on a Pre-Approval letter shortly. Want to try and connect?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes
    9y

    @Wes Blackwell

    Always posting high value content! Thanks for sharing this valuable analysis, it helps a lot!

  • Investor/Realtor · Folsom, CA · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    @Wes Blackwell

    Great study post Wes

    I believe it may be sitting on market so long and warrants a lower price because it backs right up to an active train run.....see the train tracks?  Also may be harder to rent at an increased amount because of the noise.

    Missing are the expenses.  I would add in monthly expenses:

    5% vacancy

    5% maintenance

    6% capital expenditures

    10% property manager (i manage mine own but if I ever got tired of it I have that # worked in)

    $390 needs to be included in the equation:

    It still cash flows at the lower price, however the number is $151 a month.  These are real expenses that need to be worked in.

  • Investor · Spokane, WA · Member since 2012 · 71 posts · 24 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jeff B.:

    That's a VERY GOOD CASE STUDY!! Bravo to you sir.

    The negotiation point is "The average comp is $XXX and you are over that by $YYY.   I'll offer $XXX or you can sit on it for another zz DOM and still face no offers" - - aka highlight the pain.

    But then you're going to get the house at the average comp.  That's not a good deal, that's an average sale price.

    The problem I see with this example is that someone trying to sell the house for $50k over market value is very unlikely to sell for $50k under.  

  • Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
    9y

    How do you "steal" a house when you are buying for market value?

  • Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
    9y

    How do you "steal" a house when you are buying for market value?

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    How do you "steal" a house when you are buying for market value?

    If that's the supreme goal -- to 'steal a deal' -- then you're absolutely correct. On the other hand, to buy at retail is not the ultimate sin in REI as so many preach here on BP - - if the deal at real makes sense (aka has an ROI the investor is happy with), the the acquisition is worth the effort. I made 110% profit on a FMV purchase and smiled all the way to the bank.

  • Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 50 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    I sold one of the properties on that map and I know that area very well. Buyers please drive the area yourself, or have your agent video tape the areas while driving around the streets you are interested in. I'm just putting it out there that in that particular area it varies greatly when you cross certain major streets. There are streets that when you cross and go over even two or three blocks it changes quite a bit. Google Maps are great but it wont show (maybe someone standing on a street corner selling drugs, or the sounds and roads). There are some great investment areas over there BUT, as you know it's finding the deal that gives you cash-flow, and hopefully doing your best to keep tenants safe.          

  • Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    The Sacramento real estate market is so hot, if you purchase a property for even just $10k below market value you can consider it a steal. Every single transaction I'm involved in is a multiple offer scenario and just about every offer is above the asking price.

    Looking at high DOM properties allows you the opportunity to be the only offer on the table and gives you lots more leverage in negotiations. I can easily beat the seller up on price when I'm the only offer, but can't do that at all when there are 5 other offers above ask.

    Plus, I didn't have to say that you had to offer FMV... it's just a starting point. You can offer whatever you want. As long as the numbers make sense, it doesn't really matter.

    I wanted to be realistic, not sell a dream of somebody getting $50,000 below FMV when that's simply not possible. $10-20k is realistic and certainly doable, and that's far better than most buyers in our market are getting.

    And c'mon, I'm a salesman... it wouldn't sound very sexy if this thread was titled "CASE STUDY: How to Pay Full Market Every Time, No Matter What!" now would it? ;-)

  • Toronto ON, Canada · Member since 2016 · 96 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Dottie Matheson:

    @Wes Blackwell

    Great study post Wes

    I believe it may be sitting on market so long and warrants a lower price because it backs right up to an active train run.....see the train tracks?  Also may be harder to rent at an increased amount because of the noise.

    Missing are the expenses.  I would add in monthly expenses:

    5% vacancy

    5% maintenance

    6% capital expenditures

    10% property manager (i manage mine own but if I ever got tired of it I have that # worked in)

    $390 needs to be included in the equation:

    It still cash flows at the lower price, however the number is $151 a month.  These are real expenses that need to be worked in.

    Well said. Vacancy, maintenance, Capex and Prop Mgt are often overlooked but are a crucial part of the monthly expenses, especially when wanting to hold and investment property. Investors who do not consider these are in for a huge surprises when the big ticket repairs items hit the pocket or if you decide to move out of town and want to professionally manage the property......and poooooof......! there goes the cash flow.

  • Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Vamshi Ananth @Dottie Matheson

    True, those are expenses that should not be overlooked. But every property is different, and every investor is different. Some don't use property managers, some do all the repair work themselves, and some properties have tenants that have been there for 10+ years. Therefore I didn't include those in the calculations because they are not hard numbers that can be accurately projected for every single investor. But I always advise my clients to include those expenses as well.

  • Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    And whaddaya know?!?! The property on 79th St had been for sale for 289 days, and they just accepted an offer 3 days after I posted about it! They haven't changed the status on MLS yet, but I just got confirmation from the listing agent. Somebody owes me 3% :-P

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