Does a QUIET TITLE action WIPE an older mortgage ?

Does a QUIET TITLE action WIPE an older mortgage ?

Specialist · Napa, CA · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 31 votes

Situation: 
Year 2007 - Looking at a VERY old at the time 2nd lien Mortgage on a residential property in Illinois.
The 2nd lien Mortgage & Note was made back in 2007 by the lender on this investment property many years ago and sat behind a BIGGER Wells Fargo 1st lien. The property was SOLD to a BUYER "subject to" both loans a few years later 

Year 2000- That 2nd lien ENTITY that HELD the mortgage and Note was involuntary dissolved in 2000 and they did not REINSTATE the entity.

PROBLEM:
Year 2014- The 2nd lien Note  was never paid and the lender did not take any actions to enforce their rights for many years.
The Wells Fargo 1st lien eventually PAID OFF IN FULL (thereby sliding the non collected 2nd Mortgage lien into a PRIORITY lien Position)
in 2014 the property was purchased and was transferred again. That buyer continued to IGNORE the 2nd lien and did not make any payments on it. 

Year 2020 a Formal Attorney generated DEMAND letter was sent by the holder or the 2nd lien Mortgage & Note which had now GROWN to a much larger Balance (sum) due TO the property owner making a demand for payment.  

Also at this time in 2020 the property owners filed a Complaint and brought a QUIET TITLE Action Motion for Summary Judgment against the 1st lien Mortgage Note holder (remember originally was a Subordinate 2nd lien that then slid into 1st lien position when the 1st lien was paid off in full around 2014). Their arguments were # 1  that a NON EXISTING ENTITY cannot bring a collection action and # 2 well over 20 years of time had gone by with no attempts to collect on the Debt owed to the Mortgage and Note holder.  

Year 2020 later on in the year; The Court Granted a SUMMARY JUDGEMENT over their compliant filed to Quiet Title BY the property owner against the defendant (the 2nd lien Mortgage Holder who had become a 1st lien) 

2025 TODAY - now this former 2nd lien Mortgage & Note holder (who slid into 1st lien position) wishes to SELL their Mortgage and Note position for a STEEP Discount. 

QUESTION:
Would you advance cash to them to purchase their alleged 1st lien Mortgage and Note and touch this
in an attempt to collect on it or not and WHY ?

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
11mo
Quote from @Michael Morrongiello:

Technically the 2nd lien slid into FIRST Lien position when the superior 1st lien got paid off and released. However I agree with the Motion for summary judgment surrounding the QUIET TITLE action affirmed its likely NOT a collectable debt and YES we are getting a more firm legal opinion on that... 

Appreciate the insights....and caution 


 It slid into first, but was it a line of credit vs. an actual second mortgage? Very big difference as they have different statutes of limitations

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11mo

    This is unsecured debt - most likely a zombie second where states are now not allowing collections on.  I would not advance any cash. What does an attorney say?

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  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11mo
    Quote from @Michael Morrongiello:

    Situation: 
    Year 2007 - Looking at a VERY old at the time 2nd lien Mortgage on a residential property in Illinois.
    The 2nd lien Mortgage & Note was made back in 2007 by the lender on this investment property many years ago and sat behind a BIGGER Wells Fargo 1st lien. The property was SOLD to a BUYER "subject to" both loans a few years later 

    Year 2000- That 2nd lien ENTITY that HELD the mortgage and Note was involuntary dissolved in 2000 and they did not REINSTATE the entity.

    PROBLEM:
    Year 2014- The 2nd lien Note  was never paid and the lender did not take any actions to enforce their rights for many years.
    The Wells Fargo 1st lien eventually PAID OFF IN FULL (thereby sliding the non collected 2nd Mortgage lien into a PRIORITY lien Position)
    in 2014 the property was purchased and was transferred again. That buyer continued to IGNORE the 2nd lien and did not make any payments on it. 

    Year 2020 a Formal Attorney generated DEMAND letter was sent by the holder or the 2nd lien Mortgage & Note which had now GROWN to a much larger Balance (sum) due TO the property owner making a demand for payment.  

    Also at this time in 2020 the property owners filed a Complaint and brought a QUIET TITLE Action Motion for Summary Judgment against the 1st lien Mortgage Note holder (remember originally was a Subordinate 2nd lien that then slid into 1st lien position when the 1st lien was paid off in full around 2014). Their arguments were # 1  that a NON EXISTING ENTITY cannot bring a collection action and # 2 well over 20 years of time had gone by with no attempts to collect on the Debt owed to the Mortgage and Note holder.  

    Year 2020 later on in the year; The Court Granted a SUMMARY JUDGEMENT over their compliant filed to Quiet Title BY the property owner against the defendant (the 2nd lien Mortgage Holder who had become a 1st lien) 

    2025 TODAY - now this former 2nd lien Mortgage & Note holder (who slid into 1st lien position) wishes to SELL their Mortgage and Note position for a STEEP Discount. 

    QUESTION:
    Would you advance cash to them to purchase their alleged 1st lien Mortgage and Note and touch this
    in an attempt to collect on it or not and WHY ?


     I would not pay a thing. I am sure that the note is dead unless the borrower reaffirmed it. 

  • Specialist · Napa, CA · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 31 votes
    11mo

    Technically the 2nd lien slid into FIRST Lien position when the superior 1st lien got paid off and released. However I agree with the Motion for summary judgment surrounding the QUIET TITLE action affirmed its likely NOT a collectable debt and YES we are getting a more firm legal opinion on that... 

    Appreciate the insights....and caution 

    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Michael Morrongiello:

      Technically the 2nd lien slid into FIRST Lien position when the superior 1st lien got paid off and released. However I agree with the Motion for summary judgment surrounding the QUIET TITLE action affirmed its likely NOT a collectable debt and YES we are getting a more firm legal opinion on that... 

      Appreciate the insights....and caution 


       It slid into first, but was it a line of credit vs. an actual second mortgage? Very big difference as they have different statutes of limitations

      7e investments53 Reviews
    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Michael Morrongiello:

      Technically the 2nd lien slid into FIRST Lien position when the superior 1st lien got paid off and released. However I agree with the Motion for summary judgment surrounding the QUIET TITLE action affirmed its likely NOT a collectable debt and YES we are getting a more firm legal opinion on that... 

      Appreciate the insights....and caution 


       what did an attorney say?

      7e investments53 Reviews
    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      10mo

      @Michael Morrongiello  what ended up happening with this? Can we get an update

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  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10mo

    Very interesting. In Maryland a dissolved company has the right to defend itself. Also in Maryland a debt is good for 12 years. In the case of a 30 year mortgage it would be 12 years after the end date so 42 years.  

    The answer will probably be well buried in a variety of statutory and case law. 

  • Specialist · Napa, CA · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 31 votes
    10mo
    Attorney - Opinion - NOT a collectable DEBT - Thus a PASS 
  • Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9mo

    I envy you in Napa. That's one of our favorite places to visit. There are way too many notes to buy out there. If we get a question on a deal that we can't easily resolve, we move to the next. Totally agree on the pass on that one. Not worth the headache. 

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