Is my HOA outrageous and is it worth to consider suing them?

[Yangyang Jin]

Hi everyone, I would like to get your advice on how to deal with an outrageous HOA issue I am facing right now. I own a unit in cental NJ, and have been a owner for over 10 years now, always good with HOA payment, not once a late payment. Recently the HOA sent a outstanding balance of over $2000 to a debt collection, which consists of fine $1400 and interests. In my opinon, the HOA failed to execute and communicate with owners effectively, and then put all the burden on the owners for not sending in certain information on time.

The HOA requires owners to send in invoices of fireplace inspection every other year, 2022 was that year. I had done the inspection in November, but the tenant lost the invoice and I have just been trying to get the invoice since December 2022. The service company who did the inspection do not store the receipt and just can't provide the invoice. The HOA used a platform to send communication emails to inform me about the missing invoice for my property, they were not addressed to my name, or in the title of what the email is about, mixed in with newsletters and mass communications, they fell off my attention list. The next thing I know, they sent a mail back in March, asking for $1400 fine because I didn't send in the copy of invoice. I tried to reach out to the property manager, asking for clarification and wanted to explain the situation. Never gotten the reply back either. Then in June I received a debet collectio note saying that I owe $2000. I sent in proofs of the text message between myself and the tenant of the inspection schedule in 2022, and my asking for invoice, and the check I made to the service company. As well as my compromise of re-do the inspection again in June so I can get the copy of invoice to HOA for their record. They declined to waive the fee and ask to pay for the fine. I told them that I refuse to pay the fine and will have my attorney talk to them. But I wanted to ask you, what would you do? And what is your opinion? Is it worth to go through the sue process of HOA in NJ？ I would rather pay the $2000 to my attorney instead of the HOA.

[Theresa Harris]

You could try small claims court, but you knew the inspection had to be done (which you did) and documentation sent. Where did the letters go that the HOA sent? If they sent them to you through their platform (which will have different information for each owner), that is the same as sending you an email. You mentioned trying to contract the property manager, did you call and leave a message? and how many times did you try to contact them?

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

You could try small claims court, but you knew the inspection had to be done (which you did) and documentation sent. Where did the letters go that the HOA sent? If they sent them to you through their platform (which will have different information for each owner), that is the same as sending you an email. You mentioned trying to contract the property manager, did you call and leave a message? and how many times did you try to contact them?

Thank you Theresa, for your reply. I emailed and asked for explanation, and told them in email the inspection was done. The property manager did not reply. Their communication email was sent through their platform and to my personal email address. But the problem with that- they have exact same subtitle as newsletters and mass communication, and the just mixed in with all communications. With an important matter like this, I would expect they at least address the email to me, or send mail in to reinforce the deadline, but they did not, this bothers me as I think they failed on their part as well.

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

Sorry, on this one, in my opinion you are Guilty! You knew about the requirement. You failed to properly review your emails where the HOA did, indeed, send reminders. Unless local law or your Governing Documents REQUIRE this type of notification to be sent by regular mail, they likely fulfilled their duty. It is simple enough to set up an additional email address that you only provide to the HOA. That way their notices do not get lost among hundreds of other unimportant messages. I understand their choice of "Subject" was poor, but that is not likely to matter to a Judge. They will likely state that ALL of their emails are "important", as they are only related to the HOA.

Aside from all of that, there simply is no excuse for the original vendor to be able to provide a copy of an invoice, BUT, there is also no excuse for not having your original...what do expect to make a tax deduction with?

Check local HOA law and your Governing Docs, you probably will be required to go to mediation and/or arbitration rather than small claims court, at least initially.

[Chris Seveney]

@Yangyang Jin

You are going to spend more in legal defending it so just pay it

Also how did you pay for the inspection? Usually we write a check or pay via credit card so wouldn’t you have a receipt that shows you had the work done?

Next year I recommend using the same company everyone else uses.

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Yangyang Jin

You are going to spend more in legal defending it so just pay it

Also how did you pay for the inspection? Usually we write a check or pay via credit card so wouldn’t you have a receipt that shows you had the work done?

Next year I recommend using the same company everyone else uses.

Thank you Chris, yes, indeed, I talked to my attorney and he said it's not worth fighting, will most likely end up with paying a lot more. Yes, I wrote a check for the service, but it's not sufficient for the HOA, they'd need the original receipt, which I asked the tenant to keep but they lost. And the service company claim they keep receipts at a " off- premise" location, I would need to pay $500 just for them to send someone to get the copy, this company did a lot of houses in the neighborhood, they might be a scam! Anyways, I guess I just need to pay the fine at this point now. 

[Theresa Harris]

Quote from @Yangyang Jin:

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Yangyang Jin

You are going to spend more in legal defending it so just pay it

Also how did you pay for the inspection? Usually we write a check or pay via credit card so wouldn’t you have a receipt that shows you had the work done?

Next year I recommend using the same company everyone else uses.

Thank you Chris, yes, indeed, I talked to my attorney and he said it's not worth fighting, will most likely end up with paying a lot more. Yes, I wrote a check for the service, but it's not sufficient for the HOA, they'd need the original receipt, which I asked the tenant to keep but they lost. And the service company claim they keep receipts at a " off- premise" location, I would need to pay $500 just for them to send someone to get the copy, this company did a lot of houses in the neighborhood, they might be a scam! Anyways, I guess I just need to pay the fine at this point now. 

If they don't have a copy of the receipt and are charging you $500 for it, I wouldn't use that company again.  Also as you are paying for it, have them send you a copy of the receipt at the time of payment.  They should not have left it with your tenant.

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Quote from @Yangyang Jin:

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Yangyang Jin

You are going to spend more in legal defending it so just pay it

Also how did you pay for the inspection? Usually we write a check or pay via credit card so wouldn’t you have a receipt that shows you had the work done?

Next year I recommend using the same company everyone else uses.

Thank you Chris, yes, indeed, I talked to my attorney and he said it's not worth fighting, will most likely end up with paying a lot more. Yes, I wrote a check for the service, but it's not sufficient for the HOA, they'd need the original receipt, which I asked the tenant to keep but they lost. And the service company claim they keep receipts at a " off- premise" location, I would need to pay $500 just for them to send someone to get the copy, this company did a lot of houses in the neighborhood, they might be a scam! Anyways, I guess I just need to pay the fine at this point now. 

If they don't have a copy of the receipt and are charging you $500 for it, I wouldn't use that company again.  Also as you are paying for it, have them send you a copy of the receipt at the time of payment.  They should not have left it with your tenant.

 Yes, never again, such a scam! In June I did another one, they sent a electronic copy to me. Made me realize that, wow, it's a new era now. 

[Dan Heuschele]

I suspect your HOA bylaws require arbitration. Typically arbitration 1) does not cost that much. 2) arbitrators often do not rule 100% to one side. I suspect it is probable that they will reduce what you owe the HOA.

The question is, will it be worth your time?

Good luck

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Dan Heuschele:

I suspect your HOA bylaws require arbitration. Typically arbitration 1) does not cost that much. 2) arbitrators often do not rule 100% to one side. I suspect it is probable that they will reduce what you owe the HOA.

The question is, will it be worth your time?

Good luck

Thank you Dan, yes, thats right, its probably does not worth it. I have decided moving on and asking for installation plan and be done with it. Planning to sell these HOA properties and manage my own

[Peter Tverdov]

HOAs are a pain in the ***. We hesitate at times to take them on when clients ask us to manage a condo or townhome because the HOA laws can harrass the tenant or some of the losers who live in these communities and have nothing better to do than to tell you to quickly bring in your HelloFresh groceries because its a HOA violation. Managing the communities is even worse. No interest in dealing with the boards, a lot of financial mismanagement and angry board members or association members.

Good luck OP. 

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Peter Tverdov:

HOAs are a pain in the ***. We hesitate at times to take them on when clients ask us to manage a condo or townhome because the HOA laws can harrass the tenant or some of the losers who live in these communities and have nothing better to do than to tell you to quickly bring in your HelloFresh groceries because its a HOA violation. Managing the communities is even worse. No interest in dealing with the boards, a lot of financial mismanagement and angry board members or association members.

Good luck OP. 

 Can't agree more. Often times, the property management team hired by the board either is not competent or does little. There is only one property management team has shown excellence in servicing in one of the HOAs I have dealt with. If any of you are looking for recommendations, let me know. 

[Richard F.]

Quote from @Yangyang Jin:

 Can't agree more. Often times, the property management team hired by the board either is not competent or does little.

In the states that I am familiar with, State laws and every Management Agreement I have seen are quite clear that the Management Company works at the direction of the Board. The Board has full responsibility to see that all laws as well as their own Governing Documents are followed. Boards are expected, as generally inexperienced volunteers, to hire consultants and seek other professional guidance in order to make appropriate business decisions. Their standard of conduct is known as the Business Judgment Rule. Boards can delegate authority to a management company to perform a task, but they cannot delegate the responsibility.

Management Companies for Condo/HOA properties primarily provide financial services...collecting the monthly fees, paying the bills, aiding in budget preparation, etc. Beyond that, they administer the established rules and policies of the HOA, including rule enforcement, but they do NOT create the rules; or make decisions on choice of vendors; or when, how, or how much money to spend OR to assess Owners.

To be clear, the duties, responsibilities, and discretion in management decisions, as well as the actual contract, are vastly different between a Rental property PM, and a Condo/HOA Account Executive/PM.

[Yangyang Jin]

Quote from @Richard F.:

Quote from @Yangyang Jin:

 Can't agree more. Often times, the property management team hired by the board either is not competent or does little.

In the states that I am familiar with, State laws and every Management Agreement I have seen are quite clear that the Management Company works at the direction of the Board. The Board has full responsibility to see that all laws as well as their own Governing Documents are followed. Boards are expected, as generally inexperienced volunteers, to hire consultants and seek other professional guidance in order to make appropriate business decisions. Their standard of conduct is known as the Business Judgment Rule. Boards can delegate authority to a management company to perform a task, but they cannot delegate the responsibility.

Management Companies for Condo/HOA properties primarily provide financial services...collecting the monthly fees, paying the bills, aiding in budget preparation, etc. Beyond that, they administer the established rules and policies of the HOA, including rule enforcement, but they do NOT create the rules; or make decisions on choice of vendors; or when, how, or how much money to spend OR to assess Owners.

To be clear, the duties, responsibilities, and discretion in management decisions, as well as the actual contract, are vastly different between a Rental property PM, and a Condo/HOA Account Executive/PM.

Thank you Richard, for sharing your insights as a property manager yourself. That really helps me understand the split responsibilities of the board and PM. The experience that I mentioned were really just with the designated PM. In central Jersey, the places that I own, we send service request to PM as well, and general communications with PM, for most of them, the response time is very slow, or sometimes never gotten back to. The action items they promise are not carried out either. 

[Mike Dymski]

The replies above are kind. Here's the harsh truth. There is a requirement that is in place for the safety and preservation of property values in the community and you have not provided the required proof of compliance. The resident should not be receiving the invoice. And the HOA should not have to chase down owners to comply or interpret which ones are telling the truth or which ones are lying. You are not the victim here. Sue? Judge Judy would give you an earful. The play would have been to send the check copy within the compliance period and when denied, bite the bullet, get the re-inspection done, avoid the late fees, and avoid the cost and hassle for the HOA.

[JD Martin]

I serve on the board of my HOA for my STR, mostly out of necessity as the Board was sorely lacking interested volunteers that would get anything done. As a Board member my experience has been that the rental properties have been by far the poorest kept properties in the community. Our management group did a full inspection last month on our behalf and sent out violation notices for 162 out of 274 homes. 83 of these notices went to one of the 115 homes that are LTRs in the community, 70% of all the LTRs. These are not "get your Hello Fresh groceries inside" - these are dead lawns, weeds everywhere, shutters falling off homes, etc. We are in the process of cracking down hard on these properties because a) these things are part of the covenants that everyone agrees to when they buy (or rent), and b) it drives the property values down for everyone.

My other experience is that the management companies used by HOAs generally suck, and the property managers used by the rental owners suck. As a whole they're lazy and incompetent. I spent many years working in local government and I thought that was challenging, but being a volunteer on an HOA is a whole other animal.

[Jonathan R McLaughlin]

"The service company who did the inspection do not store the receipt and just can't provide the invoice."

Shady as all get out, as I think you know...and $500 to access old records??? Are you sure they are really qualified?

Gotta agree with @Mike Dymski here that the HOA is acting entirely appropriately and you owe them the money. You may have been taken advantage of by the fireplace company but that's an entirely separate issue.

[Michael Smythe]

Doubt you will win if this goes to court.

[Yangyang Jin]

Thank you all for sharing your perspectives and suggestions. I've just moved on and agreed on a payment plan. I am convinced to scale, wed need to move away from HOA, just manage on our own