My Take On "Consistency" Sending Mailers

6 Replies

Here is why (I believe) sending multiple mailers to the same group is a bad idea. Keep in mind this is my take on it. Use your own logic before you just blindly follow what everyone tells you to do (me included).

1st Time Sending:

Imagine you send out 1000 mailers and 100 people see your mailers. Out of the 100 that see them lets say 40 people are interested.

Out of the 40 people 10 respond to you immediately and 30 are on the fence.

2nd time sending:

Out of the 30 people that were on the fence, 5 respond to you the second time and you pissed 10 people off. These are gone. They hate you now and call you to take them off your list. So you have 15 people left over that didn't call you for more info and they didn't leave you, but they are obviously a bit annoyed.

3rd time sending a mailer:

The more often you send a mailer the faster the recipient will now be pissed as you are annoying them. So out of the 15 people left you get 1 call and 14 bounce.

So in total you have gotten 10 immediate leads, and then you got 6 additional leads resending the mailers.

So you got 16 leads in total

So YOU say.. SEE I TOLD you it works... because you have NO CLUE how many leads you LOST sending the repeat mailers. HOW could you know?

Now consider this

sending 1000 mailers.

100 people see the mailers and you get 40 people interested and 10 respond immediately.

Since you didn't harass them the other 30 interested simply needed more time and eventually 15 of them will naturally get back in touch with you at a later point. (How many of you received a call from a mailer you send out months and months , even years ago, and they called you up? (I am raising my hand). So yes they WILL call you back as long as you do not piss them off, be pushy or harass them.

So for that round of one time mailing I made 25 leads.

SO I already beat you here.

BUT the story doesn't end here ohh no.

Instead of using the money to send mailers to the exact same people I am now sending a brand new bunch of people the mailers.

And again, out of the 100 people that see the mailers.. bla bla bla, same story and again I get 25 leads.

That is 50 leads,

And with the third mailer THE SAME thing and now I have 75 leads, vs your 16 leads.

You may think well that is a lot of number manipulating... now I ask you.. IS IT??

Is it really?

The majority of people DO NOT LIKE being pressured. You sending a mailer again you are PUSHY and you WILL turn people off.

Now tell me honestly:

If you get 3 mailers and one is from me, and 2 others were from seriously pushy annoying disrespectful people that keep sending you mailers. Who would you call back after you are ready?

those 2 that have pissed you off.. or that one guy (me) that is credible polite respectful and NOT DESPERATE?

Sp while you sending the mailers out 6 times and getting just a fraction for the interested people every time you resend the mailers while pissing off the majority of the people that were interested you THINK you are gaining leads while in fact you are LOSING them

Tell me honestly.

Do YOU like to be bombarded and pressured with mailers? No right? Well neither does the other 99% of the population.

So YES it is an illusion.

You will NEVER know how many potential leads you are losing because you are being pushy You can NEVER know.

Now you will say, but sending the mailers again will have people see the mailers the second time when they didnt see it at first. Here is where I tell you nope! It is not that people do not see your mailers. They simply throw them away because no one like spam. so that doesn't count!


You cant argue with the numbers bud.

Up to you, I just wanted to give you a different perspective!

@Jerryll Noorden

So you propose to send mailers out new people rather than sitting on the same people for a couple of rounds. Yeah, that makes sense to keep the pot churning. What do you think is more effective marketing method for getting leads in 2020, your online method or your mailers?

Originally posted by @Nick Rutkowski :

@Jerryll Noorden

So you propose to send mailers out new people rather than sitting on the same people for a couple of rounds. Yeah, that makes sense to keep the pot churning. What do you think is more effective marketing method for getting leads in 2020, your online method or your mailers?

Online will always be better, and there is no arguing or disputing this.

This is not a matter of opinion simply because those that are credible and ranking #1 always have a better ROI (obviously because leads are free).

The best method would depend on your circumstances.

If you have a kick *** website that ranks #1 for every possible keyword... I would not worry about using anything else honestly. If for some reason you REALLY needed to make more deals, sure use Facebook ads, and then PPC.

If you do not have a ranking website then I would start one. Focus first on making it credible, then do PPC or facebook ads, while you work on SEO.

DMM to make cold deals is just not feasible. It is ridiculously inefficient.  See with PPC and DMM, you target specific audiences. And it is NOT YOU that  picks the audience. It is facebook that has a rediculously advanced algorithm that can fish your ideal audience from the population better than ANY HUMAN POSSIBLY could.

Man if you could only understand the facebook algorithm.

Think about it. FB knows EVERYTHING about anyone. Your fav food. Who you like, who you hate, what you are like, what your favorite show is. Who you crush on. What movie you saw last, what your top 3 favorite movies are. Who your kids, parent and cousins are. Man they even know what your dog's name is and what you feed that little brat!

FB with their years and years and years of data at their disposal could program a digital version of you that would be more accurately you, then you yourself!

So now compare this to filtering a GAADAMN list based on age, equity, absentee owner.

Are you friggin KIDDING.

Ignorance really pisses me off and I should see someone for that... but I just can not stand ignorance. So when I see all these people choosing DMM  swearing that this works OMFG... [email protected]&@!#@ 

OK OK breathe breathe...

calm down Monkeybutt...

so yeah...

Do you really think that caveman approach to filtering a list  based on those primitive criteria will ever outperform facebooks automated selection of that perfect audience?

No!

So here is what I woukld do, bud.

If you are not all set with a ranking site,

Find out what the cost/deal is in your market for PPC and FB ads.

Make sure you have 1.7 x that amount.

If not, get it. 

If you have it. Jump in after you make sure your website is credible, and you have the know how and means to make deals.

You seriously can not go wrong if you use that healthy brain of yours!

Hey @Nick Rutkowski

As someone who does website development as a side gig and analytics consulting as my day job, I have a little bit of a different take than  @Jerryll Noorden  

First, go listen to this podcast - 

BiggerPockets Podcast 259: Old-School Investing Wisdom from 60+ Years with Mike Anderson. 

Mike Anderson is a hugely successful investor and he talks about how he went through the exact scenario of "pissing someone off" but he stuck with it (respectfully) and it paid off. Yes, don't piss people off but don't always take no for an answer either. Find a balance. 

On the digital front - 

Yes, SEO is powerful and you should absolutely have a web presence and when you do, you should absolutely spend time and resources on your SEO. But sometimes the point of all of this is that the opportunity can lie where the big guys are over optimized. Use your web presence to brand yourself and legitimize your business. 

An ideal workflow for something like this might be:

Send nicely branded mailer with your website that's not too slimy salesy but piques 50 people's attention --> 50 people go to your website (directly, because it's on your mailer) and go "wow this guy looks like a professional" --> 20 contact you through your super easy to use online form - a lot of people get nervous to call someone and talk about something scary like selling their house but filling out an online form is low risk for them.  --> lead goes directly to your email and you're able to follow up quickly and close the deal.  This way, you used your mailers to bring leads, but your web presence to convert. 

The problem with SEO is it takes either time or $$ (often both) to rank on the first page, it's a great goal to have but don't let it be this hill you have to climb before you get deals. 

SO WHY NOT DO BOTH. You're going to get the highest quality leads from the highest quality inputs. People want to do business with people who they genuinely connect with. If you can connect with people better through online channels do that, if you can connect with people better through mailers then do that. 

Just my take. Hope it helps and good luck!

Originally posted by @Rachel Stewart :

Hey @Nick Rutkowski

As someone who does website development as a side gig and analytics consulting as my day job, I have a little bit of a different take than  @Jerryll Noorden  

First, go listen to this podcast - 

BiggerPockets Podcast 259: Old-School Investing Wisdom from 60+ Years with Mike Anderson. 

Mike Anderson is a hugely successful investor and he talks about how he went through the exact scenario of "pissing someone off" but he stuck with it (respectfully) and it paid off. Yes, don't piss people off but don't always take no for an answer either. Find a balance. 

On the digital front - 

Yes, SEO is powerful and you should absolutely have a web presence and when you do, you should absolutely spend time and resources on your SEO. But sometimes the point of all of this is that the opportunity can lie where the big guys are over optimized. Use your web presence to brand yourself and legitimize your business. 

An ideal workflow for something like this might be:

Send nicely branded mailer with your website that's not too slimy salesy but piques 50 people's attention --> 50 people go to your website (directly, because it's on your mailer) and go "wow this guy looks like a professional" --> 20 contact you through your super easy to use online form - a lot of people get nervous to call someone and talk about something scary like selling their house but filling out an online form is low risk for them.  --> lead goes directly to your email and you're able to follow up quickly and close the deal.  This way, you used your mailers to bring leads, but your web presence to convert. 

The problem with SEO is it takes either time or $$ (often both) to rank on the first page, it's a great goal to have but don't let it be this hill you have to climb before you get deals. 

SO WHY NOT DO BOTH. You're going to get the highest quality leads from the highest quality inputs. People want to do business with people who they genuinely connect with. If you can connect with people better through online channels do that, if you can connect with people better through mailers then do that. 

Just my take. Hope it helps and good luck!


People don't want to do business who they genuinely connect with.  People want to be friends with people they connect with. It would be fantastic if that were true, but although poetic and nostalgic, sadly, it is not real life.


People want to do business with people that are credible. Clients want value. They are not talking to you because they want to connect with you. They are talking to you because they THINK/HOPE you can solve their problem, and the SECOND they feel like you can't help them, its bye bye, next!


When dealing with motivated sellers, and not just "curious about selling", you will quickly realize that it is credibility that is king (not connecting with them).


Let me tell you something that keeps happening on our end. We give offers based on the numbers. Sometimes peolple get so offended and they swear at us and call us names and hang up. 3 months go by and we get the same person on the phone. Their time ran out and they HAVE to sell. Suddenly they are super nice to us and are very accepting of the offer. They still don't like us, but we are their best option. (This is what we call "motivated". ANd they do business with us. We provide VALUE they need. Not a connection.

You can build amazing rapport with anyone and you both love cats more than your kids, but if they don't feel like you can close before the 2 week deadline, they won't choose you.

Also, having a gig as a website developer does not a marketer make. Developing websites says nothing about converting traffic into leads. You need credibility for that. Where do you rank and how many motivated seller leads do you harvest/day... these are metrics that matter.

I agree with you that as someone not yet established on the net should not just do SEO... No one said you have to do just one method. What I am saying is if you can choose between SEO + Facebook ads/PPC, or SEO + DMM... why on earth would you want to do DMM when it is based on luck! (before anyone denies this... YES IT IS based on luck). Calculated luck perhaps but still luck!


See what most of you do not seem to get, is that it is about finding motivated sellers. Let me rephrase that. It is about motivated sellers finding YOU! DMM DOES NOT target motivated sellers. You are the one pushing yourself onto them.


With SEO, FB ads, PPC, people find YOU! They see your ad because they looked for a service like yours and they CHOSE to click on your ad. DMM does NOT compete no matter how fancy or pretty your letter is.

No one will sell you their house if they have no interest in selling, no matter how amazing your letter is.  That part of targeting truly motivated sellers is NOT part of DMM. It is beyond me how people simply do not see this. Its like they are all brainwashed by podcasts (insert humor here). No offense, but being on a podcast does NOT make you an expert or right for that matter.

DMM is plain and simply dumb. There is far more accurate science and data associated with FB ads and PPC.

You don't need anything other than PPC and Fbads, and SEO. Do these all at once if you like, but don't waste your time with DMM.

If you knew what SEO leads looked like you would puke the second anyone mentions DMM.

Let me give you all a taste.

SEO doesn't have to be expensive or terribly time consuming.

I ranked my website #1 on Google in about 3 months. And as I did it myself, it was 100% free.

If I can do it, so can you.

I am STILL waiting on ANYONE to convince me DMM is a solid choice. Thus far not a single person could come up with a valid reason why DMM is a good choice.

Also thus far not a SINGLE person could prove to me a better ROI with DMM, plus reliability and cost effectiveness of DMM compared to PPC, Facebook ads or SEO (assuming you have a credible website of course). If you do PPC or SEO and you are not getting anywhere it is because

1) You don't have a credible website

2) You are targeting the wrong audience

3) You didn't do your cost/lead calculations and you are marketing on an insufficient budget.

You do all these 3 right and I PROMISE you will get leads and make deals.

The mistake you make is assuming that my dislike for DMM is personal.

I am a scientist, and for me data is what matters. Come up with numbers. Data and not opinion if you want a meaningful session which strategies are worth anyone's time.

Till then I absolutely respect your difference in opinion, but I will still tell you "You are wrong".

Bring numbers, not opinion to add value to this.

Originally posted by @Account Closed I agree and respect your take on this! thank you!

 Dude, what a coincidence. I totally agree with me too!

You know what they say brother... great minds think alike.

C'mhere. Man hug!

And .. you are welcome. Appreciate you reading it and letting me know what you think!