How do you Benefit From Property Radar?
I've been using Property Radar for a few days. I've heard it referenced positively a number of times and have read a number of posts about it. If you use it yourself, could you provide a short list of niches that PR is particularly adept at providing info and lists for? Thank you.
What types of deals have stemmed from using this app?
@Krista Brashear I bought over 20 rental properties and flips at trustee sales from 2011 to 2013 using Property Radar as my main guide. (Back then it was called Foreclosureradar.com.) You have to verify the data it provides through other sources like title companies but it's a great starting point because all the info was in one place and it's easy to keep track of.
Now, I use it to get a quick, easy view of the story of a property. When I'm bidding on a non-performing note, I do a property search of the collateral/property. I can look at the Deeds of Trust and title transfers to get an idea of what's going on with the properties. It's highly useful information for me.
I also use it to double check that the posting and publishing company has listed my opening bid correctly when I'm foreclosing on a note. I can see the results of the sale more quickly than my trustee does!
@Andy Mirza, Note buying is geographiall all over the U.S. When using Property Radar to view into, are you able to view that information regardless of the note location? Also, a lot of title info and recorder info is pretty available online. What benefit is Property Radar?
Originally posted by @Joe Yobaccio:
@Andy Mirza, Note buying is geographiall all over the U.S. When using Property Radar to view into, are you able to view that information regardless of the note location? Also, a lot of title info and recorder info is pretty available online. What benefit is Property Radar?
Property radar covers the states of CA, OR, NV, and AZ as far as I know. It’s limited in what it can tell you if you’re buying a note since you won’t know what the principal balance of a loan will be from the public record and not every note buyer records their note in a timely fashion.
It helps me figure out the “story” of a property before I buy the note. For example, I frequently can see that a property gets quitclaimed to a friend or a relative and then undergoes a cash out refi so its an indicator of a weak borrower. They get the property for free, cash out the equity, spend irresponsibly, and fail on their mortgage.
I also like being able to double check that the posting company has lowered the opening bid several days before one of our notes goes to sale. We get more buyers and higher bids that way
Property radar pulls all that public info and puts it in one place for convenient access. Otherwise, you’d have to go to all those different websites yourself, which takes up time
@Joe Yobaccio - recorder info is not "pretty available online" anywhere in the US. Even in states that allow you to download document images for free (ie not CA), you still can not do things like search for all properties with a certain value, equity, lender, CLTV, nor about 150 other criteria. I would actually like to see public record data be freely available from counties in a usable form, but that simply is no where close to true today.
@Sean OToole, the original posted on this thread was asing about niches. I know some who say to look up high equity propety that has been owned 10+ years. Is that a type of search that can be done? Also, to gain the benefit of the lists, I think she was asking how that is done. The question is always about budget to mail and/or use a VA to call. I guess there is door knocking, too, if you were able to identify motivated sellers. Someone reviewed Rebo Gateway and said they have some criteria for sellers who want out now that can be targeted. Can you let me know which of these Property Radar can do or not do?
- Divorce Filings
- Tax Default Properties
- FLBO Properties (For Lease By Owner)
- FSBO Properties (For Sale By Owner)
- Empty Nesters (Houses owned for 25+ years, with at least 3 beds / 2 baths)
- Properties with Recent Evictions (i.e. – fatigued landlords)
- Probate AND Death Certificate Properties (i.e. – properties that are in the process of being inherited)
- Non-Owner Occupied
These situations all have one thing in common – there is a high statistical likelihood that the property owners are in a position where they want out of their property – NOW.
@Joe Yobaccio
1. Equity - we developed our own equity models a decade ago, and to my knowledge were the first to offer them to investors, though I think Listsource launched their's not long after. I believe our equity models are still the best in the industry, as we take a number of things into account that others don't. Still, they aren't perfect - for example there is the no way to know the open balance on a HELOC without access to credit data, and access to that for this purpose isn't allowed by law.
2. Divorces - we don't collect divorce filings. I have yet to meet a real investor who has succeeded pursuing these, until I do I have no plan to waste my time on them. A few simple reality about divorces: 1) often one of the two ends up with the property, 2) money usually gets tight as they move from one household to two, so good luck getting a deal, they'll squeeze every penny out, and 3) in serious disputes the attorneys, not the owners, pick the real estate agent and oversee the sale.
3. Tax default - the counties are really good about posting these, and most of the sales are now online. We have a LOT of customers that use us to do their property research and find the owners on these, but we don't collect them directly. I know many large, multi-state, tax default buyers, and not a single one buy's this data from a third party, or sees much value in us doing it for them. Too easy to do directly.
4. FLBO - We offered this data for about 5 years. In those 5 years I have exactly ZERO examples of the data leading to a great deal for one of our customers. After surveying customers we dropped it, and used the money on other features.
5. FSBO - Yes these folks want out of their property, but they want every dollar for themselves, to the point they aren't even willing to pay a realtor. Is there maybe one in hundred that mis-values their property, perhaps. But again, I know exactly zero successful investors who pursue these. Easy data for us to get and add to the platform, so if I'm wrong I'd love to hear it.
6. Empty nesters - yes we do this, and about 1000 variations of this.
7. Evictions - I think this one is interesting. I haven't yet found a reliable data source. Like probate and divorce the data on these that is available tends to not be very good, though some vendors mistakenly still tout it as such. For me to offer data it needs to be timely enough to actually have a chance of doing a deal, and accurate enough to not waste my customers time.
8. Probate / Death Certificate - these are just a straight up stupid way to go after this opportunity. If you want to chase this path, then you want Obituaries. Obituaries are typically posted in the local paper weeks or months before you can get either of these. This is another one like Tax, where I believe we are the most popular product in the market even though we don't offer the data directly. Simply look at the obits, and do a name search in PropertyRadar, as you find them add them to a list and start whatever marketing campaign you desire. Takes just a few minutes a day.
9. Non-Owner Occ - we do this better than anyone. We not only give you non-owner occ, but variations on it like whether the owner is in county, or in state. Plus you can combine it with things like Vacancy, or any of our 200 other criteria.
Be careful not to get caught up in vendors pushing specific life events as get rich quick schemes. We're fortunate to have most of the long term successful investors, and as such don't have to rely on constantly attracting noob's with those kind of false claims. Here is what I know works:
1. Pick a thesis around which you think an owner would be willing to sell their house at the discount you desire. You'll find hundreds of ideas here on Bigger Pockets - but just know that what worked awesome for the guy in Utah, probably is NOT what is going to work awesome in your neighborhood. My suggesting on this, is to pick a thesis where you can bring authentic value to the table when speaking to the owner. If you are going to pursue obits/probate, then become an expert in everything about that - be able to help answer their questions about the process, help them find an attorney, help them with arranging services for their loved one, learn how to lend money to help them pay for expenses through the process and prior to a sale, etc. Those are the guys who do well. You'll never be successful just mass mailing "I buy houses".
2. Learn your market, ideally by knocking on doors. Go talk to folks that are on your list, before even trying to buy anything. For a new list, I'll offer folks a $50 or $100 gift card (from my pocket), if they'll give me 30 minutes of their time. I then ask them every question I can think of about their situation, whether or not they'd sell, if they would why, what they would want out of the deal, what they think their home is worth, what discount they'd take for various things - like moving whenever they want, or not having to clean the place up, or not having to evict the tenant, or whatever. I'm NOT in sales mode when I do this, and won't even offer to buy their home unless they specifically ask. Also, while you are there BE SURE to ask if they get any direct mail from investors, and collect as much of it as you can - it's a great way to check out the competition. I'll even offer them more $ if they'll collect it for me over a period of time. Pretty good chance your thesis will change or be eliminated in this step, that's ok, it's part of the deal. Real estate investing is hard work, not a get rich quick scheme.
3. Test your thesis. From 2, I'll put together a pitch, and then try it out. Always best to start in person, so door knocking is still ideal at this stage. This is where perseverance makes all the difference. Most successful investors know that it takes a lot of no's, to get a yes. If you think you have a really good thesis, don't be afraid to knock 100 doors at this stage. Listen to feedback, try small variations, refine until you find what works.
4. Start to scale. Once things start to work in 3, then switch to calling. It's far more efficient and you can reach a lot more people. That said, you don't get the benefit of body language and it's easier for folks to not answer or just hang up. So this often takes more refinement and some changes from what worked in 3.
5. Go big. Once you have your message really dialed from 3 and 4, direct mail can help you scale. This is the most efficient way to reach a large number of people, but your message has to be absolutely perfect, or you will be literally throwing money into the trash. Too many investors jump straight to this step resulting in homeowners getting a bunch of nearly identical yellow letters that offer nothing unique that will get that owner to actually call.
If you take nothing else away from this long post, please know that the unique value you bring to the owner, and how good your are at explaining that to them (the message) is FAR MORE IMPORTANT then the list you choose.
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#1 All Forums Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
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@Sean OToole what a great post.. that in its self is one of the absolute best I have ever seen on this site from an expert
you should do a pod cast I am sure you have been asked @Mindy Jensen .
WE use PR in a very efficient way.. and like you explain we have a very detailed thesis that we are going after..
we don't direct mail although as you say it can work but boy you need to commit some serious dollars to it and be consistent..
what I personally like the best is how you can be on a street and see exactly which houses are non owner occ.
I think working a smaller farm and driving and creating a custom data base is the way to go with PR and then of course we have found strict foreclosures with PR that others missed one of them gave us a 200k profit.. My COO uses it every day to chase down potential deals.. we are belly to belly...
as an aside when I was in the timber business in the north west I created a custom data base with every property from CA OR border to just north of Castle Rock WA criteria 10 acres or more and visible timber.. when I did this in 92. it took over a year.. and thousands of man hours at the court houses comparing Aerial tele to base line plat maps then marry to the tax records.. then I reverse directory it for phone numbers.. I bet I spend 100k or more creating this.. but we made millions with that data over the years.. we beat so many Mills and other gypo's to the sales it was not funny..
So now PR can do this whole process for me in a click of the mouse or on my phone.. its all right there.. the money is made ( my dads attorney told me this in the 60s) knowing the court house.. IE back end data plat maps shadow plats and then I took that same thought process to Timberlands..
Now the public can get a PR subscription and have it all at their finger tips.. hone in on what your looking for create a special data base .. pound on doors drop door hangers.. and if you want to spend the money direct mail.. but this is hands down the greatest tool I have ever seen in my 40 years of doing this business..
And I am with Sean on this one.. all those esoteric methods of finding properties are so one off as to be pretty tough to get any volume.. the idea is distressed real estate either financially or functionally.. with major value add..
if your just looking for a better than average deal for a rental this will work as well.
@Jay Hinrichs, I really enjoyed reading your response to @sean
@Sean OToole and his initial post about testing out ways to best use PR. If you can, wthout revealing your exact secrets, can you give your thoughts on the types of PR searches that are leading to the better than average deals in this current seller's market? I know not all markets are the same, but I in CA, the market is very hot and same with rentals. I am assuming maybe it is similar in OR. So, I ask because the list and motivation would be different should things crash again. As far as types of leads that turn to deals, I am familiar with techniques on how to do lease options, sandwhich leases and buying on terms. But, all those require sellers a bit more desparate than maybe they are in this market. Or, maybe those in default or empty nesters, are always going t be good candidates in any type of market. Hope that makes sense. I can edit this if it seems rambley!
@Sean OToole, I wanted to thank you and compliment hou on your recent, detailed post about how to use PR with a thesis. I have been re-reading this a few times to really learn from it and each time I do, I realized, that post is an entire real estate class if someone is willing to really read and apply what you wrote. A lot of gurus and list sellers, etc, will just post things or videos and say that what they are telling us works in any market and then they just rattle off the same techniques. You wrote of what works or not in each numbered item and cautioned us that it is market specific and that each way of connecting with home owners has it's own pros and cons. So, thank you for that. I hope that post or our user success following your advice drives a ton of users your way.
Thanks @Joe Yobaccio!!! Unfortunately I learned the hard way that there are no "secret" lists, or "perfect" messages. This, like pretty much all businesses, rewards those who put in the work, are methodical, and have realistic expectations. :-)
@Sean OToole, I have been watching some Property Radar Youtube videos, but because many were posted when we were at the bottom of the market, those videos talked a lot about underwater homes and pre foreclosure prospecting. Are there any newer videos that talk about who the motivated seller types are now with values up and equity increasing in most of the markets Property Radar serves?
@Joe Yobaccio - yes, having been around 11 years and launching just before the foreclosure crisis I'm not surprised a lot of what you find is focused on foreclosures, and probably features very old versions of our app. :-)
The best source of newer information is here: https://help.propertyradar.com/. Also, I really recommend setting up a demo call with my team - they do a great job of staying up to date on what's working. You can do that here: https://help.propertyradar.com/how-to-contact-cust....
Best,
Sean
@Sean OToole, Thanks, Sean! I just spent time on your site with videos on the topics of finding seller's in today's market, but found that they were done duirng 2013 or so an focused on finding negative equity homes. The amount of Property Radar videos I've watched tonight are great tutorials and my time through end of year, during biz hours, is booked up with my note business. I spent later eves researching properties and the market, so for now, I'd really like to see if there is an updated video or blog on today's market that is from 2017 or 2018 and talks about motivated sellers. I know there will always be some owners with negative equity in CA, but, all areas have sky rocketed and even in areas I would never prospect, values have risen a lot. I'd love to email one of your people and see if they can let me know what the current motivated seller list looks like in CA. I live in Pasadena and don't mind traveling a little bit for a farm, but at some point, it will be too far to be of value, but even 120 miles is okay to drive, but not sure I see areas that may still be underwater in that radius. Not sure if negative equity is still as easy to find.
@Joe Yobaccio - we tend to do videos on specific criteria people ask for - or general videos on how to use the app. You are absolutely right that our older videos are mostly focused on foreclosures and negative equity as that was what all of our customers were interested in during the foreclosure crisis. Today is different - there is no one standout opportunity. And since we aren't has been gurus you'll never see us push "the secret motivated seller list that will make you millions". ;-)
I will also guarantee no such get rich quick list exists - and if it did they sure as heck wouldn't sell it. Success in this market depends on where you are looking, what skills you bring to the table, what competitors in the area are doing, etc. We offer over 200 criteria including everything from absentee to vacancy, that can be used in millions of combinations. We're here to help you do better marketing, be more efficient, better qualify deals before getting in the car, etc. Not to say my team can't make recommendations of list ideas that they see work, or steer you away from ones that don't - they do that every day. But it is nuanced, not one size fits all. Hope that helps.
Best place to get ideas on what lists are working for people where, is right here on BP. As you get ideas for targets you'd like to pursue we'd be happy to help you implement them.
@Sean OToole, I see Property Radar has 1st and 2nd mortgage lenders and loan origination date and % of equity, but would I actually be able to see the current loan balance of the loans? Specifically, what I'd want to do, is look for homes with a lower current loan balance than today's market values so that I can determine if rent will exceed the current mortgage payment. All I need is current loan balance on a property and I can determine the approx payment.
@Joe Yobaccio while we can estimate them, actual loan balances are considered credit data and are not publicly available. Note the payment is based on the original loan amount, so better to use that for what you describe anyway.