Choosing a market

Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?

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Melissa JusticeBusiness Member

Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2024 · 518 posts · 1k+ votes

@William Breymann,

You're certainly ahead of the curve by digging deeper than just what agents are sending. A lot of people stop at the numbers and forget to consider neighborhood dynamics, tenant quality, or lifestyle fit and it sounds like you’re being very intentional about that.

The smaller/lifestyle-driven markets you mentioned (Warwick, Burke, Lake George, etc.) are great places to personally enjoy, but you're right - they typically only make sense financially if you lean heavily into STR/MTR, which comes with more management intensity and risk. Since you're not ready to dive headfirst into that, pivoting toward affordable metros near natural attractions and hospitals makes a lot of sense. MTRs for traveling healthcare pros is a real niche play, especially since you already work in that space and understand the demand.

One thing to keep in mind is that in some of these more affordable metro areas, especially in the Midwest and Southeast, you can often find properties that still cash flow as long-term rentals and keep the option open for MTR if you want to optimize. On top of that, some sellers in those markets are offering post-closing credits or even rate buydowns right now, which can help the numbers make sense from day one.

If you focus on metros with solid job diversity, healthcare hubs, and proximity to parks/nature (Cleveland suburbs, even other Midwest/Southeast metros), you’ll give yourself multiple exit strategies while keeping cash flow and stability front and center.

Always happy to chat more about what's worked for other investors.

Best of luck!

[email protected]313-221-8718

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Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
1y
@William Breymann
some miscellaneous reactions for you
"we were talking about partnering on with a family member"
I wouldn't partner on your first few deals. New investors partnering together = higher risk. do a few yourself first. then you have a track record.
"don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property"
do you have cash? using a HELOC to purchase a property is expensive - interest rates on HELOCs tend to be high. and, you may know this, but HELOC payments are generally interest only initially so if you only make the minimum payment you're not paying down the principal. this is the bank making money, not you.
"whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense"
well, it should be both, right?
are you ONLY looking at STRs? do you have a passion for hospitality, and are you willing to do what it takes to be at least a higher performing one, including spending a lot of money up front? the market is saturated right now and it's not as simple as buying a place and listing it anymore.
i've looked into MTR quite a bit and have a unit i plan to convert to MTR soon. i don't personally invest in STRs but have read enough to know that everyone tends to think they'll be a top performer...

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Matt DingusBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2020 · 82 posts · 76 votes
1y
Hey @William Breymann

You’re definitely asking the right questions here. A lot of us wrestle with the balance of “do I like this place” vs. “does it actually make sense financially.” At the end of the day, the numbers need to work first as an investment (cash flow, appreciation potential, stability, safety, etc), but I’ve also found that being at least somewhat excited about the market helps you stay motivated, especially if you’re investing out of state. You mentioned Ohio, NC, and some spots in the Northeast — all have pros and cons I'm sure — but I’d also encourage you to take a look at Pittsburgh (Yes I am biased). It’s one of the few markets where you can still find solid cash flow opportunities while also getting long-term appreciation. The job market is strong with healthcare, tech, and universities (great for your idea around MTRs for traveling healthcare workers if you go that route), and there are plenty of safe B-class neighborhoods with good schools, parks, and a lot of growth happening.
Like any city there are areas you’d avoid, but if you target the right pockets, it’s a really investor-friendly place with steady demand from both renters and buyers. I’ve personally had a lot of success here helping clients and building my own portfolio, and I can honestly say Pittsburgh has been one of the most balanced markets I’ve seen for both cash flow and appreciation. And when I have clients visit here, they end up loving it every time. While Pittsburgh isn’t a “beach” destination, it’s surrounded by lakes, rivers, ski areas, and outdoorsy recreation, so it does check that box of having natural attractions nearby.
Long story short — don’t overthink needing to personally love the nightlife or vibe of a city, but if you can find a market that has strong numbers and you would enjoy visiting, you’ll feel way better about pulling the trigger on the first offers.

[email protected]412-613-0018
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William Breymann
OP
Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
1y
@Nicholas L. Thanks for the response. I agree with you on all of that. We got excited about the property in Saratoga and have a family member close by who would have helped manage it. Numbers were too tight though and like you said, I don't really want to run a STR or do the hospitality side.
As far as the HELOC, that's what we've got. Have some cash savings but they're our reserve and not enough for a full downpayment in most markets. I understand how they work and have been factoring the payments in.
And totally agree with you on both liking the market and making financial sense. Writing all this out and asking the questions (as dumb as they sound re-reading them) does bring clarity.
Hope your MTR unit does well. I feel like that might be the sweet spot for me but we'll see. Thanks again for the response!
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William Breymann
OP
Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
1y
@Matt Dingus Thanks for the response Matt. I looked at Northeastern PA briefly but not Pittsburgh. Scranton/Wilkes Barre area but not in depth. I'll take a look. The more I look it seems every major metro area has some amazing parks and natural attractions. Be nice be closer to home and within driving distance seems like anything over 4 or 5 hours, might as well fly.
1 Reply
Evan HoppleBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2023 · 284 posts · 420 votes
1y
@William Breymann , Cleveland has Lake Erie, Cuyahoga Valley National Park, Cedar Point, Marblehead/Port Clinton. Lots of central/southern Ohioans travel to these spots in the summer!
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Evan Hopple good to know! The lake gets me excited and would be something I'd like to explore. Thanks for the response!
  0 Reply
Bernice RetzloffPro Member
Memphis, TN · Member since 2024 · 234 posts · 100 votes
1y
Hi @William Breymann!
Really appreciate how thorough you’ve been in thinking this through. A lot of new (and even seasoned) investors wrestle with the exact same balance you’re describing: invest where the numbers work vs. invest somewhere you also like/feel connected to.

Here are a couple of thoughts that might help:
- Numbers first, emotions second – At the end of the day, the property is an investment vehicle. If the market doesn’t cash flow with the strategy you’re planning, then it may become more of a lifestyle purchase than an investment. There’s nothing wrong with that if it aligns with your goals, but it’s important to be clear on which hat you’re wearing.
- Markets you "like" can still work — if the strategy fits – For example, a place like Saratoga or Lake George may not pencil for long-term rentals, but could work as STR/MTR if you're comfortable managing that (or building a team to handle it). But if you're leaning toward a more passive, cash-flow-focused approach, you might be better off in a city with strong rental demand and solid fundamentals, even if it's not a market you personally plan to visit often.
- Healthcare MTR angle – That’s a smart niche to consider since you’re already in that space and understand the demand. Cities near hospitals/universities often provide reliable tenant pools. Raleigh (and its surrounding areas) definitely checks those boxes.
- Cleveland vs. Raleigh – Cleveland can offer affordability and cash flow, but you’re right to dig into neighborhood-level data since the variance there is huge. Raleigh is pricier but has excellent job and population growth. It could be a great long-term bet, especially with the healthcare MTR strategy.
For me personally (and for a lot of investors I know), the deciding factor came down to: does this market give me the type of returns and scalability I want, with a property manager/team I trust? Once I had that clarity, it was easier to separate the “vacation/lifestyle” places I liked from the “investment” markets I could actually build a portfolio in.

I’m based in Memphis, TN, where a lot of out-of-state investors come for long-term rentals because of the lower buy-in and strong rental demand. It’s not flashy, but the numbers work. And that’s what keeps people coming back.

If you ever set your eyes on the Memphis, TN market, feel free to reach out! I would be happy to have a talk with you and discuss the things you want to know about our market here in Memphis!
901-664-1949
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Bernice Retzloff thanks for the advice! Numbers first makes total sense. I'm seeing that I can have a balance of both (as long as the numbers work) so I hopefully check both boxes and not fully commit to anything. Working w a coach out of Memphis actually and she recommended something similar. Maybe a duplex w one side LTR and the other MTR. Get creative and test the waters and see what's a better fit for the property but also my family's lifestyle. Do think STR are is too involved and I'm looking for something more passive. We'll see. I'll look into Memphis too. Have some distant family down there. Thanks again!
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Jason Ha
Rental Property Investor · Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2024 · 23 posts · 6 votes
1y
I've heard good things about Fort Worth's TX, having great hospitals. I believe Cook's children hospital is highly rated therefore there is a demand for travel nurses. Not sure if you would be a fan of the heat in the summer. Honestly it sounds like personal preference to what you might enjoy. How I would think about it if I wanted to make the MTR a vacation home would be where I would want to go on vacation. If I want to be near the coast then look for markets that pencil out in the coast... and so on. AI can help a lot with your research as well. Personally I would pick the market that makes the most sense financially and fundamentally.

Someone else mentioned this as well, but another thing to think about is whether you have a good team / can find a good team in that market. Build your bench first and vet out your team members. It can be a lot of work interviewing so many people, but it's one of those things where once you get it over with you don't really have to do it again. Getting burned sucks!
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Jason Ha thanks man. I've been using chatgbt like you recommend and it does seem pretty good at finding compromises. Or at least getting you headed in the right direction. Fundamentals coming first seem to be a common theme which makes sense and I'm all for. The numbers have to work. Thanks!
  0 Reply
Arman AhmedPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 911 votes
1y
@William Breymann
I think you’re asking the right questions—there’s always a balance between choosing a market you “like” and one that actually makes financial sense. A lot of newer investors get caught up in wanting to buy somewhere they’d personally visit, but long-term stability usually comes from sticking with the fundamentals: job growth, population trends, affordability, landlord-friendly laws, and tenant demand. Since you’re in healthcare and know traveling nurses, you’re already thinking creatively about MTR demand near hospitals, which is a strong angle. Outdoor attractions are a bonus, but I’d encourage you to run the numbers as if you’ll never step foot in the property yourself—if it cash flows on paper with conservative assumptions, it’s worth considering. Once you’re in the game, you can always diversify into “lifestyle” markets down the line.

[email protected]614-418-6081
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Arman Ahmed I think you nailed it, thanks! This is something I want to scale and buying a super expensive labor intensive STR is going to take most of my resources, both financial and time. Not the best bet. Got excited being up there w family and dreaming about how sweet it would be to own a luxury place there. Not the best move and not scalable for me. Good advice though and what I'm now planning on doing.
  0 Reply
Melissa JusticeBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2024 · 518 posts · 1k+ votes
1y
@William Breymann,
You're certainly ahead of the curve by digging deeper than just what agents are sending. A lot of people stop at the numbers and forget to consider neighborhood dynamics, tenant quality, or lifestyle fit and it sounds like you’re being very intentional about that.

The smaller/lifestyle-driven markets you mentioned (Warwick, Burke, Lake George, etc.) are great places to personally enjoy, but you're right - they typically only make sense financially if you lean heavily into STR/MTR, which comes with more management intensity and risk. Since you're not ready to dive headfirst into that, pivoting toward affordable metros near natural attractions and hospitals makes a lot of sense. MTRs for traveling healthcare pros is a real niche play, especially since you already work in that space and understand the demand.

One thing to keep in mind is that in some of these more affordable metro areas, especially in the Midwest and Southeast, you can often find properties that still cash flow as long-term rentals and keep the option open for MTR if you want to optimize. On top of that, some sellers in those markets are offering post-closing credits or even rate buydowns right now, which can help the numbers make sense from day one.

If you focus on metros with solid job diversity, healthcare hubs, and proximity to parks/nature (Cleveland suburbs, even other Midwest/Southeast metros), you’ll give yourself multiple exit strategies while keeping cash flow and stability front and center.
Always happy to chat more about what's worked for other investors.
Best of luck!
[email protected]313-221-8718
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Melissa Justice that makes a ton of sense and tracks w what everyone else is saying. Focus on the fundamentals and if I can find a place near a cool natural attraction where the numbers work, go for it. Maybe turn it into a STR or more likely MTR or buy a duplex and do one unit LTR and the other MTR to test the waters. Long term might be my best bet but the increased cash flow from MTR is tempting. TBD if the extra work is worth it for us but nice to have the option and the extra potential cash flow is very appealing. Thanks for the thoughtful advice!
  1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
1y
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?

Out of State Investors love Cleveland because of how cheap it is. Thing is, you can't just pick anything off of Zillow because it's cheap. There are a lot of hidden risks in Cleveland. So if you're gonna buy here in Cleveland I suggest you read The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods before spending your money on a bad deal.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @James Wise I'll check that out. I'm aware of the risks and that's a big part of me pumping the brakes on buying anything. Connected w a couple agents who send me deals and wasn't liking the crime or school ratings. They look good on paper and the numbers seem great but seems like I'd be setting myself up for headaches which I definitely want to avoid. I'll check out that article. Thanks!
  0 Reply
Anthony L Amos Jr
Real Estate Agent · Columbus | Toledo · Member since 2019 · 607 posts · 768 votes
1y
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?
Totally hear you. But here’s my take—numbers don’t lie, emotions do. The moment you get attached to a market or property emotionally, you open the door to risk. I treat every deal like I’m buying a business. If it doesn’t cash flow, I ask myself if there’s anything I can tweak to make it work, whether that’s STR, MTR, rehab, or better operations. If not, I move on. That said, if you’re still considering Columbus, don’t forget it’s near Hocking Hills, which Forbes named one of the top travel destinations in the world for 2023. That could be a solid STR angle if the numbers line up. You’re thinking smart—just make sure “nice to visit” doesn’t override “makes money.”
2 Reply
Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?

I personally invest and sell in columbus so I understand the market pretty well. I would just choose one market and learn about all the up and coming areas and buy there. Some areas stay away from or flip on if the margins are very good.
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William Breymann
OP
Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
1y
@Anthony L Amos Jr I’ll check out hocking hills. I like Columbus on paper but haven’t liked many of the listings I’ve seen. Probably my fault for setting too low of a price ceiling but crime and school ratings haven't been good. Gotta find the right neighborhoods. Will check that out though. Thanks for the response!

0 Reply
Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1y
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?
Welcome to BP, William! I think you’re asking the right questions because choosing a market isn’t just about the spreadsheet, it’s also about your comfort level and what kind of investing style you want long term. A lot of people get stuck between markets they like and markets that actually perform, and honestly you need a balance of both. If you’re doing STRs or MTRs, location and amenities definitely matter because tenant demand is tied to things like hospitals, outdoor attractions, and travel patterns. But if you’re leaning toward traditional long-term rentals and building equity, you’ll want to prioritize market fundamentals—population growth, job growth, affordability, landlord-friendly laws. That’s exactly why I ended up in Columbus, Ohio after moving from Portland in 2020. It wasn’t because I had a personal connection to the city, but because the macroeconomics were on fire—Intel’s $26B development, Amazon, Google, Honda, Microsoft, Nationwide, etc. moving in—and you can still find affordable homes in the $120–180K range that cash flow and hit the 1% rule, which is super rare right now. Long distance investing works best when you treat it like a business first and a lifestyle choice second, but if you can get both (a market you like visiting and numbers that work), that’s the sweet spot. For me, picking a market with strong fundamentals made it a lot easier to scale into 10+ rentals and not stress about whether I’d personally want to vacation there. Happy to connect and answer any questions you have!
[email protected]614-300-7535
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Remington LymanBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
1y
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?

It’s good that you’re weighing both the numbers and whether you actually like the location, but for investing the financials have to come first. If an area only works as a short or mid term rental and you’re not ready to take on that management style, it probably isn’t the best fit right now. Many investors settle on a market by focusing on landlord laws, affordability, and rent to price ratios rather than personal preference, then treat any lifestyle benefit as a bonus. Visiting can be nice, but cash flow and stability should drive the decision.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Remington Lyman yeah thats the way I'm leaning. Most likely look near hospitals or medical centers and if there's a park or some sort of natural attraction nearby that'll be a bonus. Reality is I won't be visiting often and it's more of an emotion thing... it really practical. Definitely numbers first.
  1 Reply
Nadeem Alamgir
Real Estate Agent · Member since 2023 · 831 posts · 577 votes
1y
@William Breymann it’s easy to get caught between choosing somewhere you would personally enjoy versus picking a market that purely makes financial sense. The key is to get clear on your main goal and if it’s cash flow, you’ll usually have to lean toward landlord friendly markets with solid rent to price ratios. If lifestyle/vacation is a big factor, then you accept lower returns in exchange for having a place you actually like spending time at.

For example, Cleveland offers affordability and cash flow in certain areas, but you have to be careful about where you're investing. At the end of the day, there’s no wrong answer, it’s just about aligning the market with your strategy. My suggestion would be to pick one market, learn it deeply, and run numbers on multiple deals until you know exactly what works there.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Nadeem Alamgir thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards a balanced strategy that cash flows but ideally in a solid area that I'd like to visit. Hopefully best of both worlds but we'll see if that's possible lol numbers have to work first and foremost.
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Seth McGatheyBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee WI · Member since 2024 · 318 posts · 251 votes
1y
Hello, I don’t personally invest out of state, mainly because my market gives me everything I am looking for, but as an agent I do work with out of state clients. I do think you are right where you seem to be focusing too much on the market rather than the numbers. I suggest picking a market where you see a lot of deals that seem like a good deal or at least almost a good deal. Today’s market often you will mostly see almost good deals. But a place with a lot of almost good deals likely has some good ones you can find with time and consistency. Do you already have your HELOC? Knowing the rate on it will be big on putting your numbers together properly. Also knowing how much you can put up without the HELOC. Next is are you looking to BRRRR or just just buy turn key? Because that will drastically change the deals you can find in a lot of markets. One tricky thing as a real estate agent is we are not supposed to really tell clients what is a good/bad area or what is safe/unsafe. So I sidestep this by just telling people which areas I invest in personally and which ones I have looked into. And then for ones I have not, then I will encourage you to look at the stats specifically. Finally, if you are open to one more market to look into, my local market of Milwaukee seems to fit your requests. It is relatively low prices in a lot of areas with relatively high rents. There are a ton of hospitals and medical facilities here. (In fact my wife, sister-in-law and majority of my friends are all nurses and doctors). So if you wanted to get into the mtr you could. I personally don’t do them for any of my properties that I manage, but one of my properties does have mtr going because my business partner manages that one and has more time to manage the extra work since he lives in one of the units. So it is doable. If Milwaukee is somewhere you would consider, feel free to reach out and we can start discussing price ranges that would work and talk about how we can put together a team for you. Best of luck wherever you end up investing.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Seth McGathey thanks for the response Seth and sorry for the late reply! I'll look into Milwaukee . That's actually where my grandmother is from.
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Charles ClarkBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2020 · 306 posts · 209 votes
1y
@William Breymann

Great breakdown of your thought process! 🔑 Balancing financials with personal preference is tough. I’d say focus on markets that cash flow with solid fundamentals (jobs, population, demand), and if you can also see yourself enjoying the area, that’s a bonus. For me, I settled on your market by weighing both numbers and lifestyle—happy to share more if helpful!

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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  1y
  @Charles Clark thanks Charles. Looking for that balance but prioritizing the numbers 👍
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Min ZhangBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
I get where you’re coming from, William! when I first started looking at markets, I caught myself leaning toward places I personally liked versus where the numbers actually worked. It’s a tough balance. On one hand, you don’t want to buy somewhere that never excites you, but at the end of the day the tenants, cash flow, and long-term fundamentals matter way more than whether you’d personally vacation there.

Something that helped me was getting clear on what I wanted my first couple of deals to do for me (steady cash flow vs appreciation vs lifestyle flexibility). Once I knew that, it was easier to sort through all the noise of crime maps, school ratings, etc. I’ve also found that picking a market with a clear renter base (like healthcare workers, students, or blue-collar families) takes a lot of the guesswork out.

Just curious, are you leaning more toward a place that can double as a lifestyle/vacation spot, or are you trying to build strictly an investment portfolio that runs on its own? Happy to swap some ideas!
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Min Zhang I'm definitely leaning more towards building an investment portfolio that runs itself than the vacation thing now. That is appealing and my wife likes it a lot but at the end of the day I don't want to run a STR and the reality is we don't vacation a lot as it is and when we do, we can just STR whatever we need to. Keeps things more simple. I'm pretty clear on that now. Thanks for the response!
  0 Reply
Nicole Trubisky
Real Estate Agent · Northwest Arkansas · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 1 vote
1y
I think your thought process definitely makes sense. I've always found I have to be passionate about the area I'm investing into. If I don't like the city and wouldn't live there myself, it's harder to get behind and be excited about. Schools, crime rates, etc are all important for the longevity depending on your strategy. Based on what your describing, have you looked into investing into Northwest Arkansas? Definitely across the country from where your at haha but this area is growing like crazy. We have 36 people moving here a day on average and are projected to hit 1 million residents by 2050. Bentonville is the mountain biking capital of the world along with the new location of the Walmart home office and campus. The Walton's are investing like crazy into the area.
I work directly for D.R. Horton, America's largest homebuilder, and we offer all kinds of crazy deals and special interest rates. Nothing better than protecting your investment with a new home warranty as well!
Food for thought :)
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Nicole Trubisky have not considered that market. Feel free to message me details if you have time. Thanks!
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Ryan Arth
Developer · Cleveland / Akron, OH · Member since 2008 · 922 posts · 399 votes
1y
@William Breymann There is no free lunch. Hence why some internet realtors send you listings that look like they have good prices relative to what you see in your home market, only to find out the neighborhood is nowhere near what you might consider in your market.
It happens on here every day, which is why there is so much ink spilled about midwest markets. Purchase price is only one part of the equation, and people buy low end properties remotely and then hate the market. For example, when people talk about the City here, are they talking about the City proper, or the suburbs? Everyone on BP uses them interchangeably. The City itself is 365K people, while the MSA is 2.17M.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Ryan Arth makes sense and I'm seeing it in my currents escapades. Has me questioning OOS investing. We'll see. Thanks for the response.
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Jeff Roth
Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 461 posts · 250 votes
1y
Hi William from western MA-
You asked which markets you should be considering for cashflow with the option to mid-term (MTR) and short-term rental (STR) near hospitals as you work in healthcare.
One market that comes to mind is Lansing, MI which offers strong cashflow for longterm rentals with healthcare facilities to open up the MTR and STR options.
You can get a duplex for around $135,000 and can put a longterm tenant in one unit and furnish the other unit for MTRs and STRs.
We have an excellent property manager there to help you manage the property and maintain it and we frequently help out-of-state investors build their portfolios in Lansing and other markets in Michigan.
To Your Success!
2 Reply
- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Jeff Roth thanks Jeff
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Moe Sidd
Investor · Toledo-MetroDetroit-Dallas · Member since 2022 · 122 posts · 71 votes
11mo
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state

@William Breymann

From my experience, the people in the market matter a lot more than the city itself — your tenants, contractors, realtors, and property managers will make or break your success. Focus on building a solid team first, then dive into neighborhoods and numbers once you’ve got reliable boots on the ground.

If you ever want to chat about how that plays out in different markets like Toledo, Detroit, or Dallas, happy to share what’s worked for me and my investors and what to look out for.
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- William Breymann
  OP
  Member since 2025 · 24 posts · 20 votes
  11mo
  @Moe Sidd thanks, appreciate that.
  0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
11mo
Quote from @William Breymann:

Hey all, looking for thoughts as I hone in on a market. I had basically settled on Ohio and was between Columbus and Cleveland, but also looking at Dayton. I had connected with a couple RE agents through bigger pockets and they were sending me deals which looked great compared to my home market in Western MA. After I started digging into crime stats and school ratings and looking at street views they didn't look so great though.

We were just in Saratoga, NY and walked a beautiful house that we were talking about partnering on with a family member. It turned out they aren't serious and I'm not ready to take on the risk and work required to manage a hybrid STR/MTR that I believe it would take to make it viable, and also don't want to put the majority of our HELOC into one property. Anyway, I've started looking at spots that actually get me excited. For me this isn't large cities and bars and nightlife but lakes, mountains and beaches and outdoor destinations. Around me in the Northeast, I've been looking in Warwick, RI, Burke, VT, and upstate NY, particularly Saratoga and Lake George areas. All small markets and expensive. Not cash flowing with my financing unless you STR or MTR.

I'm currently considering targeting more affordable metro areas but looking at areas close to parks or natural attractions but also hosptials to open up the option for STR but more so MTR to traveling healthcare folks. I work in healthcare and have met and know many travelers. Currently looking at areas outside of Raleigh, NC (have a family member close) and have moved back to Cleveland as it has Lake Erie which I like.

Anyway, long story just to ask your thoughts on whether I'm thinking too much about the locations and whether I like them vs if they make financial sense. Have had people tell me I won't be spending time there and it doesn't matter which I know is true. On the other hand having a place that we could potentially visit if there were vacancies or could make into a vacation while checking in on it makes sense too. Appreciate any thoughts and curious how you settled on your market, especially if it was out of state?

0 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
11mo
Of course they are sending you cheap listings in high-crime areas. Frankly, that's what most OOS buyers are asking for.

How do you know? You can quickly find an anchor point to gauge in any metro area: look up the median price. Anything below the median has an elevated risk profile (class C). Cut median price in half - that's where class D begins, very high risk profile. I think C+ is doable, but keep in mind that everything is harder to deal with remote. Personally, we have sold everything C over the last years and exchanged into properties above the median, which in my case means suburbs.

You pay a premium for low-risk investments and you get a "deal" on high-risk investments. That is why cap rates are in the 4s and 5s on a brand new premium apartment complex and in the 8s and 9s on an old building in the hood.
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