All Forum Posts by: Ashley White

@Ashley White

One more thought just came up too

Masonry is not a trade where there are tons of qualified people running around.  For a turnkey kind of solution it can be very very costly.

We have recently been going through the most aggressive rehab project to date (residential rehab) and I've had to learn about masonry a lot more.  We had one guy come in before we started and tell me he would guess it was going to cost $60,000 for the masonry.  (Yeah right)

Anyways.....  Youtube is brilliant but there are cavity brick walls which is how stuff started being built after say, 1910 or so - that's not a hard and fast - but before that, true masonry walls were common.  Cavity walls are tied to the STRUCTURE using what are called wall ties, and they have very limited structural properties.  IE the brick does not support any load.

Before cavity walls, the walls (structure) was literally made of bricks.  There would be two rows deep and every few courses up, they would run a brick course that overlaps the outer and inner courses.  You can tell those walls by looking easily mostly by if the walls have bricks that run length wise the whole way up (cavity wall) or if every so many rows, there looks to be a row that is made up of 'half bricks' ie the end of a brick. 

I'm not even sure if you're dealing with a brick wall, anyways....

If you own a structure that is the latter (before 1910 and true masonry load bearing brick wall) and you've got severe masonry issues then you may be in a situation where you essentially need to rebuild the load bearing parts of the structure.....  Which would, kind of suck and be costly.

From what you described you will have SOME structural repair for sure. 

On our recent project I found it to be much more cost effective and I had more control over the end result to essentially insert a structural steel post/beam type of solution to take the load from the existing masonry wall that was really struggling, in one case (that was where the garage masonry wall was carrying load).  We will keep that wall and live with how it looks aesthetically.  On another portion of the house, the brick cavity wall was bowing out and had pulled off the structure.  In that case the structure (wood built) was fine, but the bricks needed to go.  We just removed the brick cavity wall and then we will re-side.  

So anyways, what are you dealing with there with regards to your masonry?  Does it look decent but has some cracks throughout?  The prospect of re doing all brickwork on a structure you are describing sounds incredibly costly if it's a cavity wall, and frankly not even feasibly at all if it is a true masonry (structural) wall.  

Best path there will depend on what you have present.

The regulatory body let me do the structural engineering on the house I'm referencing, by the way.  Wife family and I plan to move in in Feb.

Hi Ashley;

Sounds like possibly a fun project!  

Maybe financially rewarding...  However from what you're describing it also sounds like a potential 'high risk' and needs to be VERY thoughtfully managed.  If it's just sitting there and has been for awhile - on one hand, I suppose some more time is not going to kill it.  ON THE OTHER HAND, (and that's an important hand!) you have presumably some holding costs, opportunity costs associated with whatever else you could/would do with funds if you were to 'cash out' even in its current state, and of course, a vacant and decrepit structure gets worse and worse over time, and can sometimes accelerate in its decline as more time goes on...

So here's a few thoughts and questions that may help inform early decision making:

1. What's the macro story/trajectory of this 'small town'. My big picture view is that metros reach a 'critical mass' point where they can attract the 'right' kind of intellectual capital and human resources (workers etc) that build the base of a solid regional economy.  Not all or even a majority of what we'd consider small (<50,000 people) towns enjoy the right mix here that'd make ME comfortable.  But the drivers here are important to look at on a case by case - also, thinking about this and its importance depends on your vision for the property.  If you are buying and holding, the long term value of the property becomes far more important - although some places if they produce cash flow can be fine not being a 'high value/equity' type of thing, if your time horizon is long enough...

The town has a population of ~15,000, but surrounding areas are starting to grow really quickly.  Microbreweries, restaurants, and attractions are starting to pop up and do really well.  This town will probably see a growth spurt in the next coming years.

2. What's it zoned? Do you have a vision for what you think it would be in its 'best' (financial) use?  Do these currently align?

It's zoned as business, but can accommodate apartments for residential as well.  My vision would be to have loft style apartments in the 2nd floor (it already is laid out like it used to be an old apartment) and have a main business on the first floor) Or even a venue that people can rent out as well.  Yes, I believe they align very well.

3. What background in engineering/construction/project management do you have?  What interest level do you have there?  Just want to make sure you are being realistic about your abilities.

My background is in computer science... :)  I have an interest, but know I have 0 knowledge on construction.  BUT, I have a lot of family that have been carpenters that do have that knowledge.

4. Per #3, what type of network/mentor-ship do you have above?  If actively managing a project like this it will be crucial to have people you can trust

Same as above.

5. Financing and time allotment: I see these as being related - if you are working full time then you will not be able to be super active in terms of managing things unless two things are true - A: you are a beast (Yes, that's me) and have the requisite background to handle it, which I doubt based on what I'm reading, what I guess to be your age, and perhaps an assumption of your background.  And B: The time and flexibility with your work. ----  The reality is to really get an AGGRESSIVE (high risk/reward) project through the process, there will be times during the project where something just cannot wait and you have to pick your priorities.  Now, if A and B do not both 'check out' (my guess is that they won't) you may be stuck exploring a more traditional financing and find an outside resource to manage type of route.  On that subject.......  Here are my thoughts and things to consider below........

First, consider getting some plans drafted up.  You can perhaps hire out a CAD tech.  If you know CAD or can teach yourself CAD, do it yourself.  These need to be of a reasonable Arch/Engineering Quality.

I suspect that you multiple options for 'outs' with a project like this.  Here they are:

1. sell in its current shape (probably expect to do same, worse, or a little better than you paid)
2. sell in its current shape with CAD plans and a vision for what the place will be, with some thought on the development side (probably some volatility here but the idea would you'd position yourself to do much better than #1)
3. Do the development to get the 'shell' solid, water tight, and leave the systems/final build-out to a developer that has more experience/time/capital to execute down the stretch with the rest of the Engineering, tenant readiness, or whatever (higher risk that 1 and 2, with most of that risk being from what you've described on the structural side of things) - There'd be some real money here, to get here and I wouldn't be 100% confident you'd get your money back.  From my experience, the developer/owner that gets to the FINISH line is the one that gets to really reap the rewards.
4. Do the development all the way through.  This may break down into the following BIG PICTURE steps:
   1. Do the front end loading, CAD plans, get secure financing lined up (if you can)
   2. Tackle the higher risk construction parts FIRST including from what you've described, the roof repair, the joists and other structural stuff.  If that gets off track or you need to punt the project, you want to know that BEFORE sinking in a lot more money
   3. Perhaps think about phasing some build-out to live in a portion of the structure if you are in the area/have the interest, also depending on your money/financing picture
   4. Kick butt on the rest of the renovations

Sounds like a fun challenge but you also want to be aware of your limitations.

Jim