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All Forum Posts by: Becca F.

Becca F. has started 28 posts and replied 941 times.

Post: Small Multi-Family vs. Single-Family for a First Out-of-State Deal?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Steve K.:

$80-150k properties are not going to have high enough rents to cover operating costs over time. Even if your magic spreadsheet shows $200/ month positive, over time you will lose money due to the rent not being enough to cover maintenance, repairs and capex on a property, and that’s not even factoring in the inevitable tenant or PM issues. Rule #1 is location location location. Save up until you can afford a property in CA would be my advice. Ideally 20 minutes max from where you live. Good luck! 


 I agree with this, location, location, location. The OP hasn't mentioned what part of California he's located. San Francisco Bay Area is the most expensive and LA and San Diego are slightly less expensive. Sacramento and the Central Valley are possibilities. I don't know the SoCal market so maybe a SoCal investor can offer suggestions. 

People are leaving the Bay Area because Sacramento area (2 hour drive) is less costly and there are a lot of businesses and people who travel there for business reasons - think mid-term (MTR) and short-term rentals (STR). This is what I would have done had I not poured out money on Class C Indiana homes (replace it with at least 20 different inexpensive markets but the story is the same, losing money on repairs, tenant issues or both).

I network with a lot of CA investors and the ones who bought recently, as in the last year. It's possible to house hack in the Bay Area. If OP is a first time homeowner, there are a lot of programs here to help first time buyers (read the fine print of conditions for these programs).

- buy a home here, rent out the rooms (if you don't mind having roommates) or buy one with an ADU, rent out the ADU as a long term, MTR or STR (if there are no AirBnb restrictions). You could do some renovations while you're living there, upgrade the kitchen and bathrooms to add value and you're on site to see the work.

- buy a duplex here and rent out the other side. I just talked to someone in the last week doing this, renting one side out as MTRs (medical workers, specifically RNs who travel here make high salaries here or college professors teaching for a summer or semester). 

Post: Small Multi-Family vs. Single-Family for a First Out-of-State Deal?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Mike Arias:
Quote from @Becca F.:
Quote from @Mike Arias:

I am interested in this too. Similar situation. This is my thinking (and this would depend on the local market): My preference is SRF/SFH not only for the reasons you mention but because there is better appreciation. Supply is tighter for SFH and demand is higher. However, I will be open to a duplex if its a very good deal (meaning my minimum standards will be much higher). Of course, your local investor friendly real estate agent can confirm.

These are not final but just example of what I mean. For SFH, looking for minimum $150/month cash flow; 10% COC; 11% NOI. For duplex, it would need to be $300/mo cash flow; 12% COC; 13% NOI minimum. The CF and COC are market dependent and I know what I want my minimums to be. For the NOI %, I still need to figure that out.

Curious what others say. 

Are you in California?  I don't have multi-family out of state but If that's the cash flow you're looking for, there is no cash flow. I run my numbers using 20% down. Anything will theoretically "cash flow" if you put more down like 40% to 50% down or pay cash but then you're locking up a large amount of money into a property. 

I looked at 2 to 3 units in Indianapolis metro area. I wound up buying Class C SFH in 2023- the feedback from property managers was that more desirable tenants will pay more rent to not live next door to someone with shared walls/ceiling/floor. Two years later, there is no cash flow and I'm losing money from constant repairs (the only positive side is my large passive losses on my tax returns). Sold one SFH and selling the other next year (when the lease expires).

I cash flow from a Class A SFH in a great Indianapolis suburb with excellent school district but I bought it in 2013 then did a refi during COVID, have a great tenant who takes care of the property and I self manage now. If I was buying that house now, it would be negative cash flow.

With the OP looking in $80k to $125k range out of state, you'll be buying Class C properties thousands of miles away in the Midwest or South. If you're in California please don't do this. 

AirBnb and mid-term rentals (you need to furnish it and pay for utilities and WiFi) and rent by the room (self manage and deal with multiple roommate tenants) can get higher rent but it's more work. Property management fees eat up money and PM fees will be higher for short term and mid-term rentals than long term rentals. Those strategies are market dependent. 

If you're looking for cash flow, I recommend starting a business or buy some index funds. Far less stress than buying cheap properties 2000 miles away with lots of issues. 


Hi Becca, I am not in CA but what difference does that make? I am in NJ but looking in Ohio. I have done analysis and you are definitely right, buying at the prices off MLS, there is no cash flow on SFH [I am using the listed price but in reality that is a max price so unless the market is hot, offer prices will be low]. However I am seeing CF on duplexes in Columbus. I think the key is working with a real estate investor. Either low ball offer (if acceptable), off market deals or pocket listings are the only way to find a CF property. Also rates will go down eventually so refinancing should increase CF even it is minimum. Thanks for the information as it is helpful. Indianapolis is also a market I am interested in the future.


 I'll re-word that "if you live an expensive location, e.g West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) or East Coast (NYC, Boston, cities in NJ)" it's better to house hack or find something within driving distance (2 to 3 hours) where you can check on the properties. Can you buy a duplex in NJ and live in one side and rent out the other? 

As far as off market deals, I think many of those will need renovation. Have you ever done a renovation locally? Do you have a solid knowledge of construction (e.g. signs of a weak foundation, removing knob and tubing wiring and replacing it with new electrical, costs for drywall, $ per sq ft for LVP flooring, that you should get a sewer line scope...the list goes on). Doing a renovation out of state is more difficult than locally where you can be on site often. If you don't have a trusted team OOS you can easily be overcharged or worse, your property vandalized or things stolen while vacant, etc. 

If you're looking in the same price range was the OP, that $80k to $125k, that is going to be really tough and for a multi-family that will be a piece of junk property, to put it nicely. 

Numbers on a spreadsheet can look nice but in reality, you'll be paying out for change orders on a renovation, etc. I was supposed to cash flow $100 a month on my Class C - it's zero and -$300 to -$500 when tenant calls for repairs. 

Ask these OOS people how much property taxes and insurance is for the cities you're considering. For Indianapolis, it's 2.77% property tax rate (Marion County, which is Indianapolis), and 2.7% (Hamilton County, where I have my Class A rental). My property taxes went up 17% in the last year for both homes. Indy Investors pay a much higher property tax than primary owners (no homeowner exemption and other exemptions) - I don't know about the other Midwest states. The insurance costs for Indy are reasonable. 

Post: Kris Krohn experience?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Lindsey Jellig:

Hi @Becca F.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds like you trusted your intuition at the right time and kept your $18K available for something with stronger ROI.

I also had a call with Kris’s team back in 2022. Kris even sent me a personalized video message about “partnering” with me, referencing specific goals I’d shared with one of his team members. After investing the $18K to join, I never heard from him again and ended up as one of hundreds of participants on weekly group calls—far from the 1:1 partnership he described.

After three denied refund attempts, my heart sank. That mix of disappointment, shame, and embarrassment really stuck with me—but I’m now channeling it into connecting with others so we can be smarter together when evaluating mentorships and influencer programs.


 I'm sorry that happened to you. Did you sign a contract that has details of what the partnership agreement stated for your $18,000? I would guess if it says "no refunds for any reason" or similar language, you're out of luck. Did you actually buy any properties in this program? 

If you want to DM me the details and not post this publicly on the forum, you can DM me. 

I would suggest filing a complaint with BBB or the FTC. If either organization got enough complaints from people, I hope they would do an investigation. 

Post: Small Multi-Family vs. Single-Family for a First Out-of-State Deal?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Mike Arias:

I am interested in this too. Similar situation. This is my thinking (and this would depend on the local market): My preference is SRF/SFH not only for the reasons you mention but because there is better appreciation. Supply is tighter for SFH and demand is higher. However, I will be open to a duplex if its a very good deal (meaning my minimum standards will be much higher). Of course, your local investor friendly real estate agent can confirm.

These are not final but just example of what I mean. For SFH, looking for minimum $150/month cash flow; 10% COC; 11% NOI. For duplex, it would need to be $300/mo cash flow; 12% COC; 13% NOI minimum. The CF and COC are market dependent and I know what I want my minimums to be. For the NOI %, I still need to figure that out.

Curious what others say. 

Are you in California?  I don't have multi-family out of state but If that's the cash flow you're looking for, there is no cash flow. I run my numbers using 20% down. Anything will theoretically "cash flow" if you put more down like 40% to 50% down or pay cash but then you're locking up a large amount of money into a property. 

I looked at 2 to 3 units in Indianapolis metro area. I wound up buying Class C SFH in 2023- the feedback from property managers was that more desirable tenants will pay more rent to not live next door to someone with shared walls/ceiling/floor. Two years later, there is no cash flow and I'm losing money from constant repairs (the only positive side is my large passive losses on my tax returns). Sold one SFH and selling the other next year (when the lease expires).

I cash flow from a Class A SFH in a great Indianapolis suburb with excellent school district but I bought it in 2013 then did a refi during COVID, have a great tenant who takes care of the property and I self manage now. If I was buying that house now, it would be negative cash flow.

With the OP looking in $80k to $125k range out of state, you'll be buying Class C properties thousands of miles away in the Midwest or South. If you're in California please don't do this. 

AirBnb and mid-term rentals (you need to furnish it and pay for utilities and WiFi) and rent by the room (self manage and deal with multiple roommate tenants) can get higher rent but it's more work. Property management fees eat up money and PM fees will be higher for short term and mid-term rentals than long term rentals. Those strategies are market dependent. 

If you're looking for cash flow, I recommend starting a business or buy some index funds. Far less stress than buying cheap properties 2000 miles away with lots of issues. 

Post: Licensed vs. unlicensed contractors in California and new fence or just fence repairs

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Josh C.:

It’s a fence. There is zero liability for you. Dig a hole. Put in post and plumb. Fill with a bag of concrete. Use screws on your horizontal members. Nail the rest. Two teenagers could do this in a 2 days. $100/ft? That’s absolutely insane.

So happy I live in the Midwest when reading this California craziness. You should require a license to do electrical or plumbing etc. It’s a fence. Permits and licenses for everything under the sun is what is driving up costs.

How do you know handyman don’t pay taxes? All of ours do. We send them 1099s each year. Workman’s comp isn’t required for owner operators (in my state anyway).


I respectfully disagree with you that there's no liability for me.  One side of the fence is shared with a neighbor. I talked to an investor who is very knowledgable about local laws where my rental is and his recommendation is to used a licensed contractor if I want to cover myself. Then there's the call 811 underground utilities. 

The yard isn't a 1/4 or 1/3 of an acre land on some grass like in other states. There's landscaping that the posts have to go into on my neighbor and my side. My other fence boundary comes up really close to the other neighbor's fence.

If other people want to use a handyman to put up a fence or other type of work, that's their choice. I'm sure lots of people do this since California is a huge state.

I also own rentals in the Indianapolis metro area and I would never hire a teenage kid put up a fence for me, especially since I wouldn't be there on site to supervise this since I'm 2000 miles away. At the bare minimum I'd hire some who has experience with fences. I mean it's not like hiring someone to mow my lawn. I haven't done deep research on what type of work is required by licensed vs. unlicensed people in Indy (the obvious choices to me would be for licensed are electrical, plumbing, roof, foundation work if there's a basement)

Post: Kris Krohn experience?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373

I got on a call with his team around 2022. Their program at that time cost $18,000. Theoretically you would partner with Kris and his team of "experts" would help you analyze a market, find a property, make offers, etc. All of this information you could find for free by networking and investigating the market and property yourself. The idea was to hold the property for around 7 to 8 years then sell it. They would take 50% of the equity from the sale (since they're handholding you through the process). 

It's a very high pressure sales call. The guy kept saying, "I'm afraid you'll fail if you try to do deals on your own, etc"  Then he tried to pitch me a less expensive program of $10,000. They won't take a polite no for an answer so I had to be really firm and tell him, "NO. I'M NOT INTERESTED" (almost yell at him) then I hung up. 

If you look up his name, he was involved in some type of SEC investigation. 

I wouldn't pay any money to any of these social media gurus for any coaching/mentorship/partnership program None of these gurus can guarantee any of their claims and they aren't going to refund your money if you don't do a successful deal. Use the $18k towards part of a down payment on a property or adding value to a current property. 

Post: What Do You Wish You Knew Before Your First Out-of-State BRRRR?

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Travis Timmons:

I'll throw out one more response and will then go away. The quality of neighborhood, property, and tenant pool that you get on a $80-125k property is really bad - especially if it is multifamily. I don't know what markets you are looking at, but I used to live in St. Louis, so I'll use that as an example. $100k properties in that market are simply in neighborhoods that nobody with options or a credit score above 600 wants to live. Tenants will be rough, if there is vacancy between tenants, there will likely be break ins and theft, and it may be tough to get contractors or property managers to take on the job due to the low rent/management fees and hassle factor (and theft for contractors). 

And if you get stuck or run out of cash and need to sell the thing, your only hope is finding an out of state buyer that also does not know the area. We're on the other side of the largest period of real estate appreciation in my lifetime just a few years ago, and if you can still buy a property for sub-$100k, it's because nobody wants it. I assure you that there is no shortage of capital or real estate investors in these Midwest markets. Local investors are not touching them because they know what they are getting into. First time, out of state buyers simply do not. 

I'm not saying do not buy out of state. I invest locally and as far as 2000+ miles away. I can do it and self manage because they are in A/B areas with a really good tenant base. If you buy in C-D-F markets in 2025 from out of state as a first time investor, there's probably a 90% probability that you are going to sell for a loss within 2 years as I see it. 

Feel free to reach out. I have a background in live-in flips, long term, mid term, and short term rentals. I'd be happy to help if you have not grown weary of my cynicism and negativity on this strategy. 


These are great points! Any new investor looking at buy inexpensive properties to BRRRR should read this and I specifically want to emphasize that to California investors.

I have similar experiences, Class A single family home, in Indianapolis suburb with great schools, that I now self manage, great long term tenant who communicates with me, newer home but I did buy it in 2013. 

I bought Class C in 2023 sold one of them at a loss, and planning to sell the other by next summer. I'm very lucky to not have any tenant issues but the constant repairs are eaten up what little cash flow I had. I ran out the rental property calculator for 20 years - I literally would get a better return from a high yield savings account.

I had made other offers attempting to BRRRR in Indianapolis - renovation costs would likely run over, inflated ARVs and trying to do this from 2000 miles away...hard pass. I did talk to a few honest Indy people who gave me a reality check. Trying to BRRRR in 2025 is a lot different than in 2012-2021 with cost of materials are higher and higher interest rates on the refinance part of the BRRRR. I've done a local renovation where I was on site multiple times a week and I wouldn't attempt to do a BRRRR with out of state, knowing what I know now

In your other posts you mentioned you're in California. If you're in the Bay Area, feel free to DM me. I may be able to connect you with other investors who may let you walk their renovations. 

Post: Licensed vs. unlicensed contractors in California and new fence or just fence repairs

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Dylan Vargas:

@Becca F. I would ask the neighbors if they will split the cost or even pay a 3rd. This is common and then debate over who faces the "bad side" of the fence with the horizontal boards showing (hence paying a 3rd). Some people stagger this when splitting the cost. This is very common but depends on your neighbor. I would simply repair and save your money for other repairs/upgrades unless there is a safety issue. Good luck and keep us posted.


 Currently the "bad side" is on their side. I rarely see the neighbors out and my tenants don't either so I may need to send them a letter or put a note under their doormat that I'd like to discuss the fence cost of that shared side. The only time I've talked to one of the neighbors was over 2 years ago. I'm fairly certain an investor owns it and is renting it out (or it's a possible house hack and the person lives there and they have new roommates every 2 years or so).

Even if I just do the repairs (nail up the loose boards and get 2 new posts), it's mostly on that bad side of the fence. In fairness they should pay for part of the repairs. 

What do you mean by stagger the cost?

Post: Sharing a quick market analysis that I did

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373

Hi @Jessica Yuan! I agree with Nicholas' comment 100%. There is no cash flow. I wouldn't pick a market based on a a Rent to Price ratio where you don't know anything about the city and have no connection to it (e.g. family, friends or a place you to visit frequently).

 I invest in the Midwest (Indianapolis metro area). For context I did live there for several years then I rented out the home when I moved back to California. The only reason why I'm "cash flowing" is because I bought it in 2013, refinance during COVID and I have a great long term tenant in a Class A (nice suburb with excellent schools) and I self manage it now. 

I bought Class C in Indy (homes in the $120k to under $200k range) sight unseen in 2023. What little cash flow there was has been obliterated by repairs and property tax increases. Luckily I haven't had any tenant issues so far. Don't buy a property sight unseen - videos and pics from an agent look different from seeing it in real life. I ran out my rental property calculator to 20 years using conservative rental increases (3% but probably lower now) and appreciation (3%) so the run up in property values during 2018 to 2022 is not typical historically. I would get a better return on a high yield saving account - I'm serious. I sold one of the Class C and plan to sell the other one soon. 

I've have a lot of California investor friends and many of them are now sharing how difficult and how much money they've poured into out of state investments. You could replace my Indianapolis story with at least 30 different cities (Houston, Dallas, Columbus, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Huntsville, etc.) where the spreadsheet numbers looked good. I've poured in at least $80,000 (between downpayment, closing costs, repairs, capital expenses). 

My vote is house hack, consider Sacramento area which is 2 hours away or if you really want to do out of state, Reno or Las Vegas - I did a first trip to Reno and Vegas to look at properties. Mid-term rentals and rent by the room (called co-living by some people) are ways to get higher rent than a traditional long term rental. The cities are the list you shared are all over 2000 miles away. 

If you want to DM me I could give you more detailed information. Btw I'm not an agent or work in any part of the real estate industry other than as an investor (I'm a W2 employee), nothing to sell you.

Post: Licensed vs. unlicensed contractors in California and new fence or just fence repairs

Becca F.Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • San Francisco Bay Area
  • Posts 949
  • Votes 1,373
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Becca F.

hi Becca!  i'd go with repairs and prolonging life unless you think a new fence would help you get substantially higher rents.


 I'm leaning towards getting a new fence since the repair would cost $945 and I could use that almost $1000 towards the new fence. I may considering doing mid-term rentals in the future so would want the entire property to look nicer. Also could raise the rent a bit more on current tenants (would need to keep that in line with local law rental increase) or if they move out and I get new tenants. 

I think I could power wash the fence and stain the fence myself so I wouldn't need to pay $1200 or whatever the fence staining people (it's a power washing company) would charge. The fence staining people said a new fence should be power washed and let it dry then do the staining. 

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