All Forum Posts by: Ying B.

My property is located in a town south of Atlanta.  Not using a PM for me is not about saving the management fees, and it has to do with the unacceptable services I received from PMs from poor screening, no lease enforcement and not follow owner's directions, serious damages.  However I want to do everything right when self-manage but I want to try not to handle a lot of things in person to maintain some level of anonymity.  I will still hire out the following: repair vendors which I have already, inspector, attorney (I have) and software.  I hire very high quality vendors, never cut corners, I can afford that without any issue.  I want to inspect as I want documentation of the condition of the home so I keep track of what's going on. In case of dispute I have thorough documentation to back me up. 

I have a property south side of Atlanta.  I plan to self manage (had very poor experience with 2 PMs).

I would like to hire out the services for move-in and move out inspection and during tenancy conduct periodic inspections.  The inspector would need to be thorough, familiar with rental property inspection - what to look for and have a detailed checklist and is doing this for a living.  

I do not want to hire a PM any more as previous PMs have nothing but disaster outcome for me (skipping rent, criminals, water damage, the worse that could happen has happened with the PM).

Thank you.

@Drew Sygit  First of all, I really appreciate you took the time to respond.  Here is additional info. 

Regarding "did you ask your attorney if refunding the $400 is allowed?".  Yes, This is precisely what the attorney advised me to ask the PM to do and one option is to cut the tenant a check if on-line refund is complicated. 

1) The PM is wrong. My PM did not have the correct legal knowledge, and as a result they made bad decisions without my consent.  By researching the discussions on biggerpockets, it is evident a lot of investors know you partial payment will invalidate your eviction claim a PM who claim has been doing this for 20 years and knows the law has it wrong.  By taking the partial payment, the Owner is deprived the opportunity to file this month. That is not a loss of 3 days but a loss of June 17 through June 30.  Georgia law states that receiving a partial payment during a rental period defeats a claim for non-payment of rent for the balance of the rental period. That means you have to wait until the next rental period for non-payment to evict. For this reason PM must return the $400 to the tenant right away.

2) PM did stop the portal payment option on June 17, so the only option going forward is to come in the office with certified funds to pay in full. This action was only taken after I called and was notified of what transpired from 6/13 to 6/16.  I waited 6/13 -6/17 morning to let them do their job. I did not bother than every day.  I left the 3 day elape before I intervene.   The reality is if you leave the PM do their job without intervening, they don't keep you informed unless you email twice and call also.  

3) The PM has not demonstrated they are willing to enforce the lease in the past.  Examples are as follows:

- After the Lease was signed I was given the tenant name.  Lease only has her and her daughter as allowed tenants.  A quick research by me based on her name, showed she will have unauthorized occupants there, including her (married) husband.  Once confronted this, she denied straight in the face of PM.  It's been 5 months, her husband has been there full time.  In the last 2 month, there is another male in their exceeding a total of 28 days which makes him unauthorized occupants as well.  This is a violation of the lease and PM did not take any action.  I presented this concern before they moved in, the PM has the option to rescind the signed lease but failed to do so. 

- After a couple of weeks of moving in, one of her relative visited and brought a dog. We have a no pet policy.  She posted on facebook showing the dog on premise.  The dog was removed once her relative left.  PM should have enforced a $500 pet fine but did not.

- She paid in full 5/19.  There is a pattern of late pay.  In June (this month), she did not pay a penny by 6/12 and did not communicate at all. Only after the Pay or Quit notice, she paid $400 through the portal.  What the PM explained to me is simply wrong. They said on 6/16 (Thursday) they sent another Pay or Quit notice with June 20 (Monday) being the holiday, that leaves Friday/Tuesday/Wed as 3 business days and they said they can file eviction Thursday next week but the correct legal ramification of accepting partial payment is you lose the right to file eviction this month.  The PM also committed in writing in the first go around they would file eviction 6/17 but instead without my consent they took partial payment and ghosted me upon repeated written request to refund $400.  Without refund we cannot start the eviction.  You asked why I ask my attorney. Because it is an important legal matter and I paid for legal service every month. Why not! 

- Before this tenant, the same PM placed tenants who had a fire in their own house and their insurance paid the rent during their stay.  They only stayed 4 months.  My PM knows the rent came from insurance but never informed me.   They failed to disclose and in addition to that during the first month, the tenants caused a water damage through the loose hose of their washing machine.  I found out from my contractor who fixed the first water damage that the tenants said they had a house fire.  They moved out after their house was ready but disconnected the utility without authorization and when the water was turned back on it caused a flood situation and my insurance paid 40K for the claim.  They signed a 1 year lease with my PM.  I was operating with the understanding this is long term lease.  If I had known they were insurance claim tenants, I would have rejected them.  The PM should have disclosed this and seek my approval but did not.  Now who is left holding the bags? The owner.

- Their Management Agreement states: Should any tenants they placed break the lease within the first (6) months, they waive the procurement fee in placing the next tenants (which in my case is this current tenant).  However, they went ahead charged me $1325 (1/2 rent)  procurement anyway without honoring their own clause in the management agreement. 

In short, why I intervene so closely because they have made mistakes over and over.  The tenants late payment behavior has to do with PM not following its own Lease. Further in Mgmt Agreement, they stipulated in situations where legal action is pursued, they should inform and receive consent from Owner and follow the instructions of the Owner as pertains to the action pursued.   I have seen so many PM companies based on my research of large number of magistrate court dispossessory cases, they wait till 4 months (Progress Residential) to file, some wait till 2 months to file and you all know the more you delay, they more loss you incur. Owner is left holding the bags. Not the PM.  You may get the tenants out but it is almost impossible to collect the Judgment.  As an educated Landlord, I know too well that the only way to rectify the situation is start the eviction without delay and that has to happen in June.  If I have to, I will use my own business account to issue a refund and take over the eviction.  I am also in the process of drafting a certified letter to their Team Lead in Atlanta to demand action and seek monetary compensation based on the Management Agreement. 

@Justen Ashcraft, I have this situation happen now and my property is in GA and my property mgr's portal accepted a partial payment during the Pay or Quit period. My attorney say you can't file eviction in the month you accept partial payment. I asked my PM to refund and the PM is part of the problem - remained silent on repeated clear written requests to do so.  Did you later confirmed the answer to your question?  Did you refund the tenant and started eviction in the same month? Or did you keep the partial payment and wait for next month to file?

Property in Georgia.   Tenant was late in May (paid May 19). Tenant did not pay in June.  Demand Letter (Pay or Quit) sent 6/13 asking full payment using certified funds.  In Pay or Quit period, Tenant paid only $400 out of $2900+ full payment.  PM accepted the partial and issued another demand letter 6/16.  PM advised this will reset the date of Pay or Quit. I immediately consulted my attorney and was advised you lose your ability to file eviction in June if partial payment was accepted. I immediately advised PM in writing to issue refund of $400 and start eviction filing upon refund issuance.  I was met with silence.  The PM contact also stated something very unprofessional, i.e. calm down I have done this for 20 years, I am just telling you the law.  I don't have time to be on the phone and I have to answer other owners.  The PM is wrong. The issue is they do not provide a response of request to refund $400 and the do not answer phones.  Additional issue they allowed 1) 2 unauthorized occupants 2) Unauthorized pet presence - they decide to not charge the $500 fine the lease allowed.   At this time I am determined to evict.  In order to do that the partial payment must be issued.  I don't want to drag on for months due to PMs foolish decision making.   There was no direct way to contact the head of the Atlanta branch who oversee the PM that works directly with me so I found this higher level person via his Linkedin Profile and sent a message via Linkedin.  There is no response.  Please advice: how can I get the PM to comply with my requests.  Should I report them to the Commission? Should I ask my attorney to write demand letter?  I need PM to do what I ask them to do and timely so I am not deprived of the ability to evict.  Thank you.

I am researching the same topic.  Here is a list of whole house automatic shut off valve products: https://www.statefarm.com/simp...  I'd like to find review info to decide which one to go with and I think it is a worthwhile investment to prevent a catastrophic water situation in a matter of a min or less. I found review on FloLogic https://www.amazon.com/FloLogi... Anybody has more feedback on any similar systems, would you please share? 

Yes. I have written proof that they disconnected the water on which date per the water authority.  I have proof also from the PM's move-out inspection report with pictures showing valves were left on.  I have proof from the plumber and water authority the second time I had water turned on I had both of them onsite to check it was safely turned on and confirmed I do not have a leak and that the damage was from the open valves of the washer.   

Discussed with my insurance adjuster and he seems to indicate there is no path to subjugation although he loved to be able to because he said I was the one who authorized the reconnection.  I want to talk to my insurance's attorney directly as I think law is never black and white and because of 1) and 2), I would argue the tenants were negligent.  However I cannot access insurance attorney directly.  I disagree with the adjuster.  Anybody in this community who works in insurance or with legal expertise could comment on whether tenants liability can be argued?   Outside of dealing with insurance claim, the Landlord & Tenants law does take the position that the damage was caused due to tenants neglect and therefore they are liable for the damage, maybe not from an insurance claim perspective but rather based on Landlord & Tenants law and my lease.  

Tenants left the washer valves on when moving out causing serious damage when Water Authority turned the water back on. 

1) Tenants disconnected the water a week before the move-out date without informing my PM. The lease requires the water to stay connected for at least 3 business days after move out. Had the water service been on, their mover CORE FURNITURE when disconnecting the washer, would have seen the water gushing out from the open valves and would have known to turn the valves off. In this case, their Mover did not turn off the valves, although I believe the issue originated on tenants disconnecting the water service in violation of the lease as it set off what happened next. 

2) Tenants chose to not notify.  I (Landlord) did ask the water authority to turn water on but I don't have enough experience to realize the washer valves were left open.   So when the water service was turned on at the street, based on the technician, he said for a few minutes he saw the meter spinning and turned it off within a few minutes.  The damage though appears at least 50-100 gallons were gushing out as extensive ceiling, flooring damage occurred.  My insurance did accept my claim but I have a 1% deductible (around $3500). 

3) Water service was turned on and off around 10:30 am per Water Authority. Tenants came back to vacant property to return keys around 2:30 pm and stayed for a while.  He would have noticed the water damage at that time throughout the house but chose to not notify anybody. Had he informed the PM right away, I would have deployed a remediation company in the afternoon instead of finding out the damage in the evening when it was too late to set up the drying system that night, causing continued water damage.

4) I requested tenants to pay for the deductible that I pay out of pocket.  Tenants did file a claim under the liability clause of their own home owner insurance USAA (they leased from me as they had a fire in their own house).  Their insurance added me as a claimant.  USAA hired ALE Solutions to place them in my rental property. Core Furniture was providing leased furniture and washer and dryer as part of the ALE solutions arrangement.  USAA now advised me that they will not accept liability because their insured (my tenants) said they did not touch the valves and it is CORE FURNITURE/MOVER who did not turn it off.  I believe ALE and CORE furniture are the tenants agents and tenants owe me the duty of care and due to their negligence I had a loss on me. 

5) I believe ALE and USAA and Tenants also defrauded us because they signed a 1 year lease which they early terminated and they did not disclose that they had a fire and was displaced.  So the PM brought in this high risk tenants and they caused a smaller water damage a few weeks after they moved in due to loose washer hose.  This last water damage was 4 months after they moved in. 

I believe tenants ultimately are liable for the damage due to neglect and that is covered under their liability policy with USAA.  USAA initially appeared to be helpful but second conversation w/ their adjuster they do not accepting liability.  All I am asking is for the tenants to pay the deductible $3500.  The rest is taken care of by my insurance.  I do not intend for USAA to pay the entire claim. 

One major question I have is: Is there room to legally argue that it was tenants 1) disconnect water service 2) left valves open that led to subsequent damages and therefore they are liable?  Tenant vs Landlord law seems to support this view.  I do understand I am responsible for checking the washer valves when authorizing the turn on of the water service. I admit I do not have prior experience on this and did not know to check this.   Thank you.   

My tenants washing machines cold and hot water valves were left on when they moved out.  When the water was turned back on by the water authority, it flooded the house within just a few minutes from gushing water and we are left with an expensive insurance claim.  

So all the floors in the property will be replaced and some ceiling will be replaced. 

To help minimize water accidents in the future, I am interested measures in place now. 

1. Put in floor drains in the 2 upstairs bath.

2. Upstairs bath floors use Schluter Waterproof Membrane before tiling or flooring.  I heard the product is excellent in water proofing. 

3. Laundry room, install a 32X32X2.5 stainless steel drain pan for washer and connect it to an existing pipe at the foot of the wall (this connection to the drain system in the wall came with the house but was not utilized before).

4. Install automatic shut off valves 

Can you advise if all of the measures above are necessary? Main question is if I do #4, is #1 redundant or still beneficial/necessary? I got 2 plumber estimates on #1 (floor drain on bath floor).  One is $800 per bath; the other said minimum $5000 each bath. I also asked a master plumber who now sells automatic shut off valves who said option 1 is very expensive and don't work when you need it to work such as dirt gets in or crack.  I also understand sloping the bath floor properly is key and that work is done as prep work of the person who tile the floor.  I guess I need to find labor who is skilled and experienced in creating the right sloop so when you do have a water overflow, water can drain through the drain system instead of finding cracks or edge of bath floor to damage the ceiling below and get trapped in between floors.  

Since I have the opportunity to remove a big portion of the ceiling drywalls directly below the 2 baths to fix the water damage anyway, it should help the plumber to access the pipe when the ceiling is open. 

Please provide feedback on my questions and anything I maybe missing.  I am willing to make the investment to minimize future water damage issues whether coming from laundry room or overflow bath or internal pipe leak.  Thank you.