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All Forum Posts by: David Robertson

David Robertson has started 93 posts and replied 720 times.

Post: How can I learn renovation costs?

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

Bidding on work is a cost of doing business and is generally a "sales/business development expense" for a contractor.

With that said, I also understand that the average residential GC doesn't have a dedicated estimating department so bidding on work can be very time consuming and a big waste of time if you are dealing with tire kickers.  If a investor doesn't have a property under contract they are a tire kicker and the chances of them getting the property under contract are slim to none.  If they have the property under contract, at least there is a legitimate project that is likely going to happen.

I spent 7 years as a estimator in the commercial business, and trust me we did plenty of "free" estimates for legitimate clients and legitimate projects...but there were also a lot of projects we did not bid on because the clients were tire kickers and the projects were pipe dreams and we didn't want to waste our time.

If I'm an investor with a legitimate project, I wouldn't expect to pay for a bid.

If you are a GC that is so incredibly busy right now that you are backlogged for months, don't have time to bid on work and are charging a fee to put together a preliminary estimate then it sounds like you probably aren't that hungry for work and probably aren't the right contractor type for a house flipper to begin with.


Post: How can I learn renovation costs?

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

If you are a new house flipper and are completely new to construction and renovations and have absolutely no clue how much stuff costs you are currently in that awkward stage.

If you don't feel comfortable estimating rehab costs then you need to team-up, partner, or hire someone who can help you estimate rehab costs.

#1 Pay a GC for a Consultation and Property Walk Through

You can hire a General Contractor to provide a consultation to walk the property for you and provide an detailed estimate breakdown of what they would charge for the repairs to the property.

Be honest with the Contractor up front and tell them that you are a new real estate investor and are trying to get a better understanding of construction costs in the area.

Creating Estimate Proposals can take Contractors several hours to create, so be respectful of their time. If you don't have the property under contract you will likely have to pay the Contractor for their time ($150 to $300).

#2 Partner with Someone That Has Construction Experience

To get your feet wet, you could partner with another house flipper, contractor or construction professional that could help with Estimating Costs.  In a partnership, both parties need to bring something to the table...If you don't have construction experience, what experience or skills can you offer to the partnership?

#3 Hire An Employee

You could hire a part-time or full-time employee that has Construction Experience that could handle the process of estimating the repairs and creating the Scopes of Work for your projects.

In conclusion, learning to estimate rehab costs takes time and experience, so if you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn how to estimate rehab costs then you need someone on your team to take on this important task!

Post: How can I learn renovation costs?

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

Learning about renovation costs is a process that takes time and experience.  Here is my boilerplate list of the steps you should take to learn how to estimate rehab costs:

#1 Read the Book on Estimating Rehab Costs

Expert house flipper J Scott discusses the fundamentals of budgeting and pricing rehab costs and reveals the steps, tips, and tricks he uses to accurately estimate costs for 25 common trade categories and hundreds of repairs. The Book on Estimating Rehab costs is a must-read book for new rehabbers that struggle estimating rehab costs for their rehab projects.

#2 Walk Through Distressed Properties and Spy on the Competition

Walk through a couple of completed rehabs that a local real estate investor has completed in your local market and study the types of repairs they made and the level of finishes they installed in the property.

Spying on the competition and understanding what buyers are looking for will help you determine what type of repairs and level of finishes you need to install in your own properties.

#3 Explore Lowes and Home Depot to Learn About Material Pricing

Take a tour through Lowes and Home Depot (or their websites) and look at finishes materials and fixtures that you will consider using in your rehab projects. This will help you get a better idea of what tile, hardwood, carpet, plumbing fixtures and light fixtures costs for your rehabs.

#4 Contact Local Contractors For Pricing

Call local Subcontractors and get budget pricing for common repairs on your typical rehab project.

For example, call a roofer and ask what their average cost per Square of Architectural Asphalt Shingle Roofing would be on a 1,500 sf house, with a 6/12 pitch.

#5 Build Out Your Database in a Spreadsheet or Estimating Software!

Once you start to get a better understanding of Labor and Material costs you will want to store this data into a spreadsheet or software that you can use to help you streamline the estimating process.

#6 Practice, Practice, Practice

Walk through distressed fixer-upper properties (or find properties virtually online) and practice creating detailed scopes of work, quantifying repairs and estimating rehab costs for the projects.

This will help you get acquainted with common rehab repairs, rehab costs & estimating terminology.

#7 Get Your First Rehab Project!

You can practice all you want, but ultimately you will learn the most about estimating rehab costs by actually rehabbing a house. Getting your first rehab project will require you to create a SOW, talk to contractors, compare and review bid proposals, review budgets, & make countless trips to Home Depot.

You will inevitably make mistakes and underestimate things, but you will learn 90% of what you know by just doing your first rehab!

#8 Learn from Your Experience!

Once you complete your first house flip project, take some time to review your actual costs that you spent on the project and compare it to your initial estimates and budgets.

Reviewing your final numbers will help you gain a better understanding of how much you actually spent in each Category and identify areas where you underestimated cost and blew your budget.

When you buy your next house flip project you will have this valuable learning experience to help you build a more accurate estimate!

As your continue to do more and more houses, you'll gradually gain more experience and be able to develop accurate estimates quickly and confidently!

Post: Free tools to analyze flips, BRRRR deals & estimate rehab costs!

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

We’re excited to announce we just launched our new Rookie plan for beginner and part-time real estate investors. The Rookie plan is a streamlined version of our other plans featuring our most popular tools, our Flip Analyzer, BRRRR Analyzer, and Rehab Estimator (all outlined below) to help you get your house flip under contract! Best of all — it’s totally free.

Sign up for a now, and


Flip Analyzer — never buy a bad deal again.

Use our (AKA House Flipping Calculator) to calculate project costs, profitability, and the maximum purchase price (MPP) you should offer for an investment property.

Our Flip Analyzer is our simple, step-by-step calculator that takes you through each step of the analysis process so you don’t overlook any project costs and know exactly how much you should offer for your property, so you don’t overpay!

How it works (or ):

BRRRR Analyzer — upgrade your cash flow game.

The BRRRR investment strategy is a hybrid flip/rental strategy where you BUY an investment property at a discount, REHAB it, RENT it to a long-term tenant, and then REFINANCE the property with a long-term, low-interest mortgage — and REPEAT.

Our has a simple, step-by-step workflow to easily calculate short-term equity and forecast long-term cash flow potential.

  • Short-Term Sweat Equity from buying the property at a discount and increasing the property value by making smart renovations.
  • Long-Term Cash Flow from renting out the property to a long-term tenant.
  • Long-Term Amortization from paying down the principal of your loan balance.
  • Long-Term Appreciation from the property value appreciating over time.
See it in action here:

Rehab Estimator — create a detailed scope of work without a contractor.

There are a lot of repair calculators and estimators available to rehabbers, but we find that if you’re having to figure out the average cost of a roof, fixing window panes, or replacing flooring to calculate your expenses, that’s not much better than the calculator on your phone.

Our has common costs built in to help you get a more accurate estimate, without having to know the inventory of your local hardware store.

Click to see it in action in 6 easy steps here:

Our new Rookie plan is a great way to help you start analyzing your first deals so you can get start building your real estate empire!

While you’re getting your account set up, our tutorial videos can help you get the most from your tools. We’ve also created case study videos to show how these tools work in real situations — sometimes saving tens of thousands of dollars.

Post: Software engineer opportunities at fast growing proptech!

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

ICYMI; We had some big news last month at FlipperForce!

We were acquired by Fund That Flip, Inc. and we are now investing heavily in growing our FlipperForce team and building exciting new tools and features! 

If you are a software engineer (or know someone) that wants to work at a fast growing fintech and proptech that is revolutionizing the house flipping and real estate investing industry please reach out!

Here's some more information on our Careers page about current opportunities!

https://www.flipperforce.com/c...

Post: FIFA 2026 World Cup Host Cities Announced

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

The 2026 World Cup is an extremely big deal for Kansas City which is a relatively small market.  In fact, KC ranks 33rd in media market size in the US.

The main reason KC won the World Cup bid, was because it is the "soccer capital of the US".  We have world class soccer stadiums and training facilities (Sporting KC, KC Current), as well as a huge soccer fan base.

There are major infrastructure and development projects going on in the urban core that will transform KC over the next 4 years leading up to hosting the World Cup.

- New international airport (completion 2023)

- New Kansas City Current women's soccer stadium

- New women's soccer training facility

- New Royals downtown baseball stadium (TBD)

- New downtown baseball entertainment district (TBD)

- Street car extension to the Plaza

- Street car extension to NKC (TBD)

- New Buck O'Neil Bridge (2024)

- Old Buck O'Neil Bridge Renovation/Park (TBD)

- Arrowhead Stadium renovations to accommodate World Cup

- Arrowhead Stadium entertainment district??? (TBD)

- Downtown South Loop Cap/Park

- West Bottoms New Master Planned Development

Post: Request for help on rehab estimation

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

Based upon your Scope of Work you included, it seems like the house is completely rotting from head-to-toe and will need a full exterior re-build and interior re-build?

Generally speaking, unless the house has just been abandoned and rotting for years I would be surprised if you need most of the items you have on your list.

Don't Over-Improve

Also note, that when you are fixing-and-flipping houses you do not want to over-improve your properties.  Everything in the property does not need to be brand new.  You should spy on your competition and look at comps in the area and match or slightly exceed the level of renovations of your competition.

At the very least your properties need to be structurally sound & safe, so you need to address building code violations like old electrical/plumbing systems and fix any structural issues like foundation, rotting structural issues, etc.

Otherwise, finishes should match/slightly exceed comparable properties in your marketplace.

Here is some feedback on your detailed estimate you put together:

Roofing $25k

- Roofing - It looks like you are assuming you are going to have to re-sheath the entire house for $7,150.  You should only have to re-sheath an entire house if the existing plywood is rotting.  Plywood is outrageously expensive right now, so that would definitely be an expensive repair if you had to do that.

- Fascia/Soffit Board Replacement - similar to above, this should only need to be replaced if there is significant wood rot.

- Gutters - if the property doesn't have gutters or the gutters are failing to keep water away from the foundation, then I would replace.

Demolition $9k

I generally estimate construction demolition by the man hour.  For a 2,000 sf property where we are tearing out flooring, the kitchen and bathrooms and miscellaneous junk I anticipate 3 workers, 8 hour days for a week.  (24 hours * 5 days * $20/hour = $2,400).  This wouldn't include major debris/junk removal.

- 5 dumpsters is a lot.  Generally, I use one dumpster for the initial construction demolition and a 2nd dumpster for general construction materials for the remainder of the project.  That does not include furniture or other junk left behind by the previous owner, so if it is a hoarder house then you may need 5+ dumpsters

Interior Doors $3k

It looks like you have $500/each in material for pre-hung, solid core wood doors.  You should be able to buy a standard 6 panel, solid core interior door for <$200/each from HD or Lowes.  Solid core doors may be overkill depending on your market, so you could go hollow core doors which would be cheaper at <$150.

Interior Trim $6k

Unless the previous homeowner had dogs that scratched the heck out of the interior trim, you could probably re-use the existing trim.  I generally just include 100 lineal feet as an allowance.

Interior Painting $10k

$10k for 2,000sf ($5/sf) seems a little high.  I think you could get it painted for closer to $3/sf.

Plumbing Finish Work $5k

Technically in your Kitchen and Bathroom allowances that you included, those should cover all of the plumbing finish work for the kitchens and bathrooms so you are doubled-up there.

HVAC Rough-in/Equip

New Ductwork $5k - rarely will you need to re-do the ductwork on a property unless you are changing the floor plan.

New HVAC Equipment ($7k) - not a bad price, but I would only replace the equipment if it's not working or 20+ years old.

Electrical Rough-in $20k

I've rewired a lot of houses and I've never spent over $6k for a new panel, complete rewire including fixture install.  Your price of $20k seems extremely high.

General Conditions

Storage Container $2k - I generally store materials in the garage.  Unless this is a huge project, I doubt you would need a storage container.

Post: Request for help on rehab estimation

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

Hi John,

I'm curious where you are coming up with some of these prices?  FlipperForce comes pre-built with starter template and price ranges, but a lot of these prices you have included are significantly higher than the recommended prices we provide in our software?

For example, your roofing is $25,000 which $19.00/sf.  Our recommended price is in the $3.50 to $4.00/sf range for an asphalt shingle roof so I would expect your roof to be ~$6k, so your price is 4x what I would expect it to be.

I could say the same thing for nearly every other price on your list, all of them seem to be significantly higher than the suggested pricing.  In fact, for the all-in price of $203/sf you should be able to build a new home for that price.

For medium to heavy rehab projects in Kansas City, MO I usually spend around $45 to $60/sf ALL-IN, and the prices in our Estimator tool reflect that level of pricing.

 A medium rehab would include:

- Roofing, exterior painting, new windows, landscaping beds/plantings

- New kitchen, new bathrooms, new flooring, interior painting, new HVAC equipment, new panel/new wiring, new fixtures throughout

If you posted the detailed estimate report which shows each individual line item I could provide more feedback.

Post: Home Repair Cost Estimator (and Takeoff) Software Recommendation

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752

I agree with @Jarrod, you don't need to have every material picked with the exact SKU and exact price, but you need to know a reasonable budget range of what you can buy materials for.  

For example, I would recommend walking through Lowes and Home Depot (or their websites) and look at finishes materials and fixtures that you will consider using in your rehab projects. This will help you get a better idea of what tile, hardwood, carpet, plumbing fixtures and light fixtures costs for your rehabs.

Once you find the materials you want to use in your rehabs, put the material pricing into your Estimating Tool or spreadsheet that can be used for future reference.

For example, let's say you go on Home Depot's website and you see they are selling crappy builder grade vanities for $250 to $500, moderate grade vanities for $500 to $1,000, and luxury grade vanities for $1,000 to $2,000+. Pick out the vanity price range that you feel is most appropriate for the the level of rehab you are doing and ARV in your market.

If you are doing moderate grade rehabs, I would likely put a $750 budget in my spreadsheet and use that as an "allowance" that I know will provide me with enough budget to buy the type of vanity I'm looking for.  

Once I get the property under contract I will know my budget is $750 for the vanity and I will try to shop around and find a vanity for $500 and try to save $250.

Post: Home Repair Cost Estimator (and Takeoff) Software Recommendation

David Robertson
Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 739
  • Votes 752
Quote from @Robert Walden:

(I'm not sure if there's a difference between the usefulness of Takeoff software for rehab estimating or not!?! Please explain.) Has anyone used any of these programs, or have any opinions about them? 


To answer your question about Takeoff software, that is only useful if you have architectural drawings that you can upload to the takeoff software to measure all of your quantities.

For the average flip, I would doubt you are having an architect draw up plans of the entire house, so if you don't have drawings you won't be able to use an Takeoff software.

If you are doing new construction projects or extensive rehabs where you are adding square footage and have architectural drawings that you can use then that would be the only time Takeoff software would be applicable.

Even so, measuring materials for houses that are only 1,500 to 3,000 sf is not overly difficult.  

Takeoff software is more useful for large commercial construction projects where you have hundreds of thousands of square feet of flooring, hundreds of different material items that need to be quantified and counted.

I spent 7 years as a commercial construction estimator so I have spent thousands of hours using takeoff software, but I just don't think it would be very helpful for the average flip project.