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All Forum Posts by: Erika Andersen

Erika Andersen has started 2 posts and replied 7 times.

Great points  - and likely the price points we are talking about are very different - yours much higher. Very possible I made mistakes. However, while anyone who purchased in 2022 should expect a loss, that doesn't mean everyone is going to/ able to  accept one until the house has sat on the market for a while - probably different at your price point - ie more expendable $; able to absorb a loss. The house is a good fit for us, and we didn't want to wait. Family medical issue- being near my mom is the driver. I'd been looking for a long time and nothing close to what we wanted. The house hadn't been on the market long. We didn't pay full price, and the process isn't over.  It's pretty much conjecture regarding how the deal could have gone. 

Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Steve K.:

It’s not very common but I have seen this done before. Most listings have 2.5-3% allocated to the buyers agent already written into the listing agreement but you could write into the offer something lower, adjust the offer price lower accordingly and then pay your agent directly instead. 

How I have seen an hourly rate structure for a buyers agent work is like this: a non-refundable retainer is first paid to the broker. Then hours are tracked and paid from the retainer at first then billed as you go after that.

 Tracking hours would be kind of a pain as we tend to do a lot of partial-hour type of work like a quick phone convo or texting back and forth with a buyer client, researching properties, talking to listing agents and lenders, scheduling showings, previewing properties, travel time, etc. It would be tricky to track billable hours accurately but I’m sure there is software to make it easier.

It would for sure have to be a higher hourly rate than a typical W2 job however as agents are 1099 contractors and there are expenses associated with maintaining our licenses and operating our businesses that usually come out of our commissions. For example we pay our own income taxes, broker splits and all of our other expenses directly out of what we make including required E&O insurance, MLS dues, licensing fees, Board of Realtor dues, continuing education costs, marketing, advertising, office fees/rent, transaction coordinator/ assistant fees, health insurance, car insurance and maintenance, gas, tires, software, retirement fund, etc.

We are not W2 employees with payroll taxes already taken out of our paychecks, company-paid health insurance and matching retirement account plus a guarantee of at least 40 hours paid work per week, sick pay, paid vacation… none of that.

So if you’re thinking you’ll be able to pay an hourly wage typical of a W2 hourly employee like $50-85/hr… that’s definitely not going to work. Any semi-intelligent agent is going to do the math and want to cover their expenses. Plus if the pay isn’t roughly commensurate to what they can make earning a 2.5-3% commission, then they’ll just keep doing that instead obviously. The guarantee of getting paid and a high hourly rate would be what would entice them to use the hourly rate structure over a commission structure. 

 A reasonable hourly rate would be $200-300/hr. for less experienced agents, closer to $500 for experienced agents IMO. I would be fine with a $10k non-refundable retainer and $500/hr. personally. For some buyers it would end up being less than a 2.5-3% commish, and for others more.

The tricky part for the buyer is it would have to come out of their pocket in addition to the down payment, whereas a commission paid by the seller at closing is included in the purchase price and absorbed into their loan (usually unless paying cash obviously) so the buyer only has to make the down payment out of pocket. Plus buyers might feel rushed into making a buying decision as the longer they shop, the more hours they are getting billed for. Buyers may not want to look at that many properties if they’re being billed per showing lol. 


I like it though. I’d totally go for that as an agent. No more working for free! 

Your Comment: "Tracking hours would be kind of a pain as we tend to do a lot of partial-hour type of work like a quick phone convo or texting back and forth with a buyer client"

The attorneys I know charge by the 15 minutes, some by the 7 minutes minimum regardless of how little time they take. A 2 minute email is charged as 7 minutes or 15 minutes depending on the attorney and expertise. I suspect you would bill in a similar manner. 

Sometimes, it isn't the amount of time, it's the amount of knowledge and expertise.


Yep! Tracking is a pain, and attorneys have it down! By doing my homework, such as studying up on the Colorado contract and filling it out myself in advance of working with the attorney, asking questions of the attorney as a last resort after searching for information to the best of my ability, and clarifying my questions and sending any questions in an email, I was able to minimize time and pay less. Not everyone wants to do this, but thousands of dollars can be saved for those who do! It's another form of DIY/ sweat equity, just as folks learn basic construction/ home repair skills to save thousands.


Quote from @Steve K.:

It’s not very common but I have seen this done before. Most listings have 2.5-3% allocated to the buyers agent already written into the listing agreement but you could write into the offer something lower, adjust the offer price lower accordingly and then pay your agent directly instead. 

How I have seen an hourly rate structure for a buyers agent work is like this: a non-refundable retainer is first paid to the broker. Then hours are tracked and paid from the retainer at first then billed as you go after that.

 Tracking hours would be kind of a pain as we tend to do a lot of partial-hour type of work like a quick phone convo or texting back and forth with a buyer client, researching properties, talking to listing agents and lenders, scheduling showings, previewing properties, travel time, etc. It would be tricky to track billable hours accurately but I’m sure there is software to make it easier.

It would for sure have to be a higher hourly rate than a typical W2 job however as agents are 1099 contractors and there are expenses associated with maintaining our licenses and operating our businesses that usually come out of our commissions. For example we pay our own income taxes, broker splits and all of our other expenses directly out of what we make including required E&O insurance, MLS dues, licensing fees, Board of Realtor dues, continuing education costs, marketing, advertising, office fees/rent, transaction coordinator/ assistant fees, health insurance, car insurance and maintenance, gas, tires, software, retirement fund, etc.

We are not W2 employees with payroll taxes already taken out of our paychecks, company-paid health insurance and matching retirement account plus a guarantee of at least 40 hours paid work per week, sick pay, paid vacation… none of that.

So if you’re thinking you’ll be able to pay an hourly wage typical of a W2 hourly employee like $50-85/hr… that’s definitely not going to work. Any semi-intelligent agent is going to do the math and want to cover their expenses. Plus if the pay isn’t roughly commensurate to what they can make earning a 2.5-3% commission, then they’ll just keep doing that instead obviously. The guarantee of getting paid and a high hourly rate would be what would entice them to use the hourly rate structure over a commission structure. 

 A reasonable hourly rate would be $200-300/hr. for less experienced agents, closer to $500 for experienced agents IMO. I would be fine with a $10k non-refundable retainer and $500/hr. personally. For some buyers it would end up being less than a 2.5-3% commish, and for others more.

The tricky part for the buyer is it would have to come out of their pocket in addition to the down payment, whereas a commission paid by the seller at closing is included in the purchase price and absorbed into their loan (usually unless paying cash obviously) so the buyer only has to make the down payment out of pocket. Plus buyers might feel rushed into making a buying decision as the longer they shop, the more hours they are getting billed for. Buyers may not want to look at that many properties if they’re being billed per showing lol. 


I like it though. I’d totally go for that as an agent. No more working for free! 


Having done the process now - I think the issue is buyer RE agents expecting a 2.5%+ commission like in the past. In many areas, it's a buyer's market. Savvy buyers have a lot of support resources, AI, and automation to DIY much of the buyer process, market research, and purchase process. Many of the skills required are translatable from other professions. Filling out the contracts is surprisingly simple. Working with an RE attorney provides peace of mind at a fraction of the traditional commission structure of the RE. When it's a buyer's market, I think RE agents will need to be creative to offer a variety of structures to work with/ prospective buyers. 

Update! Finding an RE buyer agent to work at an hourly or fixed rate was hard - although contrary to what a few folks mentioned here, those options are listed on the standardized Colorado contract. In the interim, I found a house, negotiated 2.5% off the listing price, and we're under contract! I attended the first open house and requested a showing by the seller agent with my husband present.

Here's why I think my process worked:

1. Denver is a buyer's market - houses sit for a bit (one month plus). Two years ago, this approach would not have been an option.

2. Narrow focus - I know the zip codes I wanted to purchase well. I wanted to be within a less than 20-minute radius of my mom. Also, hyperfocus helps me find a home with the right conditions - a stable but increasing-value neighborhood. An older house that had already been flipped (2022) -- all new appliances, remodeling, good floor plan. The exterior is a bit sad - which worked to my benefit. It didn't yell "cute" in the Zillow picture, but improving curb appeal won't be a huge investment. Plus, the buyer needed to get rid of the house quickly as she was getting married and moving - her list price was 5K over what she had paid in 2022, and she had made improvements. I knew she wouldn't want to come down too much --- so she got the same net, and I saved 2.5%. I'm happy - the floor plan is exactly what I was looking for - tri-level 4/4- which is hard to find in the price range I wanted. House went on the market 1/17- we were under contract @ day 14.

3. Not a rookie - While I have never purchased a home without an agent, I have purchased two homes in the last fifteen years in Denver and, at some point, managed both with some form of rental income, plus helping my mom manage the independent basement apartment in her home. I also put my good student skills to use in understanding comps, etc. Fortunately, those skills can be generalized from one profession to another.

4. Luck  - Colorado contracts are straightforward.

5. Support - I hired an RE attorney @ $350 hourly. I also filled out the contract to minimize the fee, and we reviewed it together. Also, my husband has experience with contracts and helped with researching information I found difficult. Overall, the process was easier than I had anticipated.

6. Privilege - We don't have contingencies. We are keeping our current house as a rental. I have a flexible schedule and was able to put in the time.

My takeaway: - I would definitely hire an RE agent as a seller. However, the next time I buy a house, if it's a buyer's market and I know the area I want to purchase well, I'll repeat this process if it's in a state with straightforward contracts. I learned a lot, feel more confident and am pleased with the outcome.

Hi All,

Given the current buyer's market - specifically Denver - seller agents are willing to show houses. For folks in similar markets who are willing to do their homework and who know the area they want to purchase in, it seems like using a hybrid approach might be feasible. In our case, avoiding a buyer's commission seems to be potentially helpful with negotiations, especially since we are purchasing below what we can afford, and can pay up front for RE attorney, buyer RE fees, etc. Also given the slow market it seems some RE agents are willing to consider a hybrid model. The market is dynamic. I'll show up here again to share how the story ends.

Hi Savvy Folks! We have some real estate experience - home purchases & managing rentals. We're interested in a primary residence home purchase using a RE attorney and hiring a buyer's RE on an hourly basis. Does anyone have experience with this? We're in CO and will be buying in Denver.

Thanks!

Hi! Does anyone have a real estate attorney recommendation to review a property management lease?

Thanks,

Erika