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All Forum Posts by: Hosup Lee

Hosup Lee has started 2 posts and replied 5 times.

Post: Anyone look at resale condos in GTA?

Hosup LeePosted
  • Posts 5
  • Votes 0

Cash flow is great. my homes used to cash flow until i refinanced them. But the total return is not captured that way since you need to factor in price appreciation. Have I made money through the BRRR strategy? Yes. Have I completely missed out on the condo appreciation because I've always looked for cash flow? Yes. The supply is tight still regardless of what anyone says due to net migration into the city. Price-to-affordability is a different issue, but regardless the supply is tight.

The Toronto rental market is hot with all the institutional capital going into building apartment buildings. The rental growth rate from some of the institutional grade market research firms are putting out numbers as high as 7%/yr growth. As long as the rent control stays away, that aspect of the market will do well. This is the space my professional career is in - institutional capital, residential development (condos/houses), buying value-add apartment buildings in scale. Institutional capital is buying assets at 3% cap in the city of Toronto. Does that make sense? I'm not sure. But I know for a fact that they're impossible to buy because of that price point. 

To both your comments Huong Luu and Hai Loc: as I'm going about this from a top-down approach, how would you evaluate all the individual listings out there and understand whether the market has undervalued units or not? Forget just one particular area. Outside the city the LTT is half of inside the city. That impacts the total return over time (which includes cash flow, mortgage repayment, price appreciation) quite a bit. Essentially we're talking 24% cash (20% down + 4% LTT) for Toronto and 22% outside the City of Toronto boundaries. And on top of that, the condo price to rent rate ratio would have to be different in every area. Oakville-Mississauga-Etobicoke-Downtown Toronto-North York-Vaughan (VMC areas)-East York-Beaches-Markham-Richmond Hill, every single one of those areas the price-to-rent ratios will be different. 

The Vaughan Metropolitan Centre has a direct subway access to downtown. The condos are much cheaper there and you also avoid the City of Toronto LTT of 2%. If rents in downtown continue escalate (which I believe they will), will that spill over to areas like VMC with direct subway access? Potentially. Arguably, this area could make a lot of sense from buying resale condo and renting it out. Mississauga with Square One now being developed by Oxford - you also avoid the 2% LTT there. Would that make sense? I don't know, yet.

So while I appreciate the particular cases around DVP-Eglinton and other anecdotal evidence that none of these will be cash flow positive (which could be true), I'm not entirely convinced that I couldn't make money big-ly through this investment thesis, looking at the right areas. This is too theoretical so that's why my initial post included listings from Vaughan (2% LTT), Regent Park (recently built, gentrification upside? after looking at my numbers again after Ming's comment I think my revenue assumption was too aggressive) and King West (probably representative of a typical downtown condo in Fin district and Entertainment district) for comparison purposes, and those numbers came out to around mid/low-teens on a compounded basis over a 5 year period with 3% appreciation applied, 20% down, LTTs /closing costs captured, 30 yr amort and 2.74% interest rate, 3% rent growth and 2% cost growth. That's a really good level of return, on a risk-adjusted basis given my perceived-risk level of the rental market, and I maybe spent 10 minutes looking these up, not even looking for a good deal. Imagine what the total returns would be at 6% price appreciation, the 21-year historical compounded growth rate for Toronto since 1999. That Vaughan condo I posted would generate a low-20s% compounded annual return. That's a Warren Buffet level compounded growth rate!

Post: Anyone look at resale condos in GTA?

Hosup LeePosted
  • Posts 5
  • Votes 0

I'm just at work so I can't provide my support right this second, I'll do so over the weekend.

I just wanted to quickly reply after Hai Loc's comment. No offense taken, but as mentioned in my post, I'm testing out my theory. I'm not an agent and do not have an association with those listings. I just don't know how else to test my theory that "the resale condos in certain areas could be undervalued" without a real listing. Happy to discuss at a theoretical level.

In fact, moderator, can you please remove the pics attached in my original post? It says I can't edit. 

I can post without the address. let's discuss with real numbers, but not a particular address. I truely believe that there would be undervalued assets out there and can be systematically identified with the right search.

Post: On-line meet up group

Hosup LeePosted
  • Posts 5
  • Votes 0

I'd be interested in this as well!

Post: Anyone look at resale condos in GTA?

Hosup LeePosted
  • Posts 5
  • Votes 0

Hey, I already have a couple of semi-detached in East York and recently been thinking that resale condos (as opposed to precon) might be a good, easy investments to make. Quickly ran numbers using a few condos currently listed in the downtown core, Vaughan, Regent Park areas to get a sense of what the returns look like.. Not the best positive cash flows and not as spectacular of return as reno-refi ideas but the total return projection seems pretty good in the low to mid-teens, relative to the work required. 

The thesis was that precon condo prices continue to escalate while resale condos, yes they're catching up, but will always sell at a discount. But rents, depending on where you are, can be relatively comparable.. as long as it's not too old of a resale condo. Not only that, given where the precon condo prices are.. I don't think it would be shocking if it just stabilizes or has a minor correction or so. At least with resale condo, the rental revenue/income offsets some of that market price risk. IRR might be better on a precon condo with the deposit schedule, but all the risk is with the market. Risk vs reward, I guess?

edit: just full disclosure - I'm not an agent. Just trying to understand if my thesis works - I have zero ties with any of the listings below!

Post: Hello, I'm new to this site :)

Hosup LeePosted
  • Posts 5
  • Votes 0

I'm a seasoned investor in real estate, and I work in that space as well (in real estate private equity and residential development). Personally, I got a couple of semi-detached homes in Toronto - looking forward to learning more and what others are up to :)