All Forum Posts by: Logan Moir

Hi Jay, Bremerton, Burien, Delridge, Snohomish, Columbia City, Rainier Valley, Beacon Hill, and Everett all have the lower prices with good opportunity to BRRRR. Pretty much anything outside the Seattle core metro.

I started investing across the Puget Sound in Kitsap County (Bremerton) with a BRRRR duplex. There are still plenty of older, small multifamily properties with lots of value-add opportunity there. Some can cashflow at today's 7% interest, most can easily cashflow after a 5% refinance. If you're interested in low-income housing, Kitsap County gets to charge rates similar to the Seattle market while costing half as much.

If you're interested in more than cosmetic value add, you can do some construction/development to take advantage of EHB 1337. Here's a write up I made for it. If you're looking to build before EHB 1337 takes effect, check out this spreadsheet to identify which jurisdictions are friendly.

Hi Brandon, I'm looking forward to hearing the responses too! Do you enjoy the security of your cashflowing duplex that doesn't need much maintenance?

I had similar numbers with my first house hack (8 bed/4 bath duplex). I compared the cashflow + appreciation + loan paydown + tax deductions against those of the other properties I was considering a 1031 exchange or Section 121 into.

I decided that in addition to the great return, I prefer the security of a property that can more than cover all expenses and savings with just one of the units.

When rates drop to around 5%, I'll cash-out-refinance to redeploy all the money I put into the property. Until then, I can use a HELOC to tap the appreciation to rehab the next BRRRR. I used a HELOC on another property to rehab the duplex and loved the results.

P.S. In the Seattle market, condoizing costs around 15K (survey, site plan, recording fees, legal fees, HOA creation and coaching from lawyer, setting up utility sub-metering if required). The lawyer usually also takes care of all of the coordination and coaching the new HOA in the first year.

Just re-read your post. Sorry to hear you won't be able to build for a year if the permits don't come this week--that's awful!

Good to hear he's dealing with the comment response. I'd ask your engineer that question and say you honestly want to know (Hanlon's Razor) if he dropped the ball on this one or if he had a reason not to call/email DOT before pushing your final design through permitting.

It sounded like he expected the possibility that DOT may flag the project and had a plan to respond. He may have many examples of past projects pushing a non-conforming curb cut through permitting and didn't see a need to call or email DOT about your specific project. Perhaps he was used to working with a lenient plan reviewer at DOT and got assigned a particularly hard-headed one this time (unfortunately, that happens)?

If this was his first time trying to push a nonconforming curb cut through DOT, he may have expected it to be as easy to respond to DOT comments as it is with most City jurisdictions (very easy, if you have calculations and Code to prove adequacy).

After this experience, he will most likely choose for future projects to call DOT or get an email with preliminary approval to use AASHTO guidelines in lieu of DOT requirements for your project.

Hey Matthew, if you're analytical and want to learn the grammar of real estate investing, this book did the trick for me (ISBN-10 : 1259586189). I come from a structural engineering background, and I find comfort in calculations--the numbers don't lie.

I confidently bought my first BRRRR (small multifamily) within 6 months of finishing the book. The numbers don't lie when you make conservative guesses.

I have a couple spreadsheets I use to do quick evaluations of BRRRRs, STRs, and DADU/AADU development. If you want to hop on a Google Meet call, PM me. I'm happy to walk through one with you.

Hey Kobe, if you're trying to save some money, you can hop on VRBO/Airbnb and find properties like your subject property. You can see what your competition is charging, what amenities they offer, and how booked they are into the future. 

If you intend to have it managed after purchasing, reach out to a couple STR property managers and have them offer their perspective on what's worth fixing, what amenities you need, and how much they would rent it for. I still do this method, even if I don't intend to have it managed.

If you're keen on going the paid route for speed, you could try convincing your brokerage team to purchase STR Insights (preferred over AirDNA) for the team to use with clients.

Hi Serena, great to hear you're ready to take the leap! 

My wife Rachel and I bought our first rental in 2018 in Bremerton (Tracyton) after reading Bigger Pockets. It's been a wild ride! I ended up loving it so much that I moved from submarine engineering to residential structural engineering and real estate brokering. Rachel left her engineering job to broker full time too.

I'm happy to help you gain some confidence evaluating properties (whether it's BRRR, ADU conversion, or DADU development) and build your team (contractors, conventional lenders, hard money lenders, etc.). There are some recent laws we can chat about that are opening up some great opportunities across the state, starting with Kitsap, King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties in July 2025----> HB 1110 and EHB 1337.

If you're interested in walking through some spreadsheets and evaluating some small multi-family properties in Bremerton, send me a PM; we can hop on a Google Meet call. 

Rachel and I are usually in Bremerton on Mondays or Tuesdays if you want to visit a property in person and start learning how to evaluate the structure, plumbing, electrical, etc.

Hi Dan,

I'm surprised the DOT isn't willing to accept AASHTO guidelines and a letter from the engineer to justify your design. I don't think you have many options to escalate with only a week timeline.

Many small engineering contracts include dealing with comments from the applicable jurisdictions. Have you reviewed your contract to see if your engineer is on the hook to deal with the comment response? 

Logan

Welcome, Jason! Sounds like you're on the right track. 

Without knowing the jurisdiction or zoning of each property, and assuming you have the time and money to rehab, I'd opt for the $380k property that's in need of value-add work. Being able to force appreciation through value-add work is a safety net during volatile times, especially if you end up needing to exit soon after purchasing and rehabbing.

In the next few years...

🛠️ you'll have time to complete a good amount of rehab work on your own
💰 you'll likely be earning more at work than your starting salary now, and the monthly payment will be less of a burden
🔵you'll likely make friends who may be willing to rent a room or two from you (house hack) to reduce your monthly expenses, if the monthly payment is difficult for you
💸you'll likely be able to refinance at a lower rate. Your home will be reappraised after the rehab for this refinance and may increase in value enough that it may make sense to cash-out-refinance or HELOC the property to rehab your next investment property
🏘️the larger lot distressed property may open up additional opportunities to you via EHB 1337 and future associated ADU/DADU opportunities.

I bought my first distressed investment property the first year out of college (duplex in Bremerton for $350k), then bought a second turn-key estate sale (~$200k SFH in North Carolina). After a few years of appreciation, I was able to HELOC the second property to cover the rest of the duplex rehab. I'm now able to take an even larger HELOC out on the duplex to fund my next larger rehab (or cash-out-refinance if rates drop).

If you're willing to share the addresses, PM me. Happy to run ROI (cashflow, appreciation, tax deductions) calculations with you. I'm an engineer (residential structural) and happy to share my thoughts on anything that looks concerning to you on the distressed home.

Cheers!

Logan (edited to remove contact info, thanks to the admins for graciously pointing me to the Forum Rules)

Hi Arch,

It sounds like your existing Seattle/Eastside properties are bringing in some great cashflow, and you have tons of equity captured in those properties.

🧮It sounds like you have these priorities for your next PNW property besides the standard FI road map:

- Something that has positive ROI (appreciation + cash flow + tax deductions + loan paydown) purchased at $1M with 20% down and ~6.8% interest. Positive cash flow not required initially if it yields a return later.

- Something nice enough (or something that can be rehabbed nice enough) to Airbnb and enjoy visiting.

🗺️Where to find off-market properties:

- InvestorLift and any other wholesale aggregator

- Make connections with local wholesalers at REI meetups or on Bigger Pockets

- Most investor-focused brokers are plugged in with wholesalers and do their own monthly direct-mail campaigns and cold-calling.

🔼You've seen that things have changed quite a bit in the Seattle Metro over the last 5-7 years.

- The appreciation you've enjoyed on the other properties also applied to the properties you want to purchase today. When rates were below 4%, we were buying properties that cash-flowed on day one and simply increased cashflow with any value-add rehab we put in. Now it's tough to get positive cash flow even after a simple rehab. Many people are aiming for -$500/month cash flow now and then hoping to break even or go positive after refinancing in a couple years at 5%.

- You're right, if you want to maximize your first priority (positive ROI), you'll usually benefit more by finding an underpriced rehab on or off market and then developing it with an ADU and/or DADU. I aim to find distressed properties with or without existing ADUs, rehab the SFH and ADU, and build a DADU (DADU can satisfy priority #2, something Airbnb-able that you can be excited to visit). When my clients need capital immediately, they condoize and sell off the DADU or SFH.

- If you purchase a property that you can visit and want to maximize cash flow for the next property, I recommend looking in places like Bremerton and Burien. In Bremerton, you can fairly easily find positive cash flow in small multifamily. The prices are roughly half of Seattle.

- Investors are buying and selling properties every day in Seattle. It still pays off when you look hard and do your due diligence.

- I'm happy to share my contractor, lender (conventional, construction, or hard money), property manager, etc. contacts if you do choose to continue investing in WA.

📖If you haven't read them yet, check out EHB 1337 and HB 1110.

- EHB 1337 promotes ADU/DADU construction around WA. Here's a quick EHB 1337 summary I made. Here's a list of many jurisdiction's with links to current ADU requirements, GIS, permit/septic records, etc. This bill becomes effective in King, Pierce, Kitsap, and Snohomish counties in July 2025.

- HB 1110 ("middle housing bill) promotes development of multifamily properties on many residential lots in Seattle. You can find more information about how Seattle is meeting the bill's requirements here. I just went to the final Comment Open House and it looks like the final plan will go to City Council for vote around November and be effective in Q2 or Q3 of next year.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about your situation.

Cheers!

Logan