All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

@Kevin Coggins So they are facilitating the commission of a crime or shall we say brokering it? Thats sounds like the definition of aiding and betting, accomplice etc.

Speaking of fraud....many many years ago, I responded to what I thought was a legitimate ad on CareerBuilder (not sure if they still around). I remember it was a company that claimed to be based in Tennessee somewhere and outsourcing certain accounting functions. They actually included what I thought was a $1,000 check in a "welcome packet" which they claimed was to use for buying printer, fax machine, office supplies etc.

I went to cash the check and couldn't quite understand why the lady was smiling at me at the counter. She apparently had alerted the cops. 

Before you know it, cop cars, sirens everywhere. People are trying to figure whats going on, i'm trying to find out whats going on, until a few of the officers approach me and ask the cashier, is this him? Is this who? She nods. And they are like, you gonna have to come with us sir. Come with you were ? To the station. You were passing a fraudulent check. What? Put your hands behind your back and now theres a tussle.. quit resisting... don't make me tase you.... and then you shoved into the back seat of the police car. This was a nightmare.

But I had no clue what was going on. They were having none of it. I spent almost an entire day explaining to a detective how this was a very simple issue that could be verified if I could access my email to establish the facts, I still had the envelope the check was mailed in  which they were trying to say was irrelevant. They said they only had to prove I passed a fraudulent check for the charge to stick... whether I knew or not that it was a bad check wasn't their concern. Really?

They eventually let me go after the threats and verifying that there was indeed a scam going on but if I had left that scene and went back to cash another check from that company... do I then have a defense? 

Thats sort of the issue here with airBNB. Sometimes you cant get off the hook by saying well, I thought she was 18 or that she looked 18.

@Thomas S. That is true Thomas, what makes it worse is that this particular owner with a large network of properties have told airBNB on numerous occassions to refrain from illegally renting/or enabling the rental of its properties which they of course ignored. They knew or should have known not to.

 @Cody L. Its a bit more serious than that Cody.  They are alleging they have contacted airBNB on many occassions to advise airBNB that it should stop renting/enabling the rental of its properties because that was in direct violation of its rules. AirBNB apparently refused or ignored these concerns. 

They also allege a pattern of conduct and disturbances by airBNB renters that further causes an unusual amount of headache compared to their renters who go through a completely different vetting process by the way. 

They have a valid concern. If you are in a habit of selling stolen property thats bad enough; if the actual owner of the property then contacts you and say, hey buddy, stop selling these items they were stolen from me, you ignore and continue selling, what then is your defense?

"...When approved, Aimco residents sign the Company's Good Neighbor Policy as part of their lease – a promise of good behavior and consideration for their neighbors. Aimco objects to the fact that Airbnb transient guests are unvetted and have no vested interest in maintaining a peaceful community atmosphere. On many occasions, Airbnb-supported trespassers have created safety, noise, and nuisance concerns for Aimco's lawful residents, including incidents of public drunkenness and fighting requiring police assistance. Aimco repeatedly asked Airbnb to stop renting Aimco's apartments in breach of Aimco's leases with its residents, but Airbnb refused..."

@Aaron Pfeffer Sure thing.

@Ken Dillard You would definitely want to look into what the specific local ordinance is. I am also finding in certain areas in New York for instance, landlords are being fined and held liable for running an unlicensed hotel although they knew nothing of this nor did they benefit from tenants illegal unlicensed business on airBNB.

It appears here there is a class action lawsuit in the works against airBNB by property owners for apparently leasing/subleasing of their property without consent. How large can the class get? Nationwide?

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aimco-step...

@Jerry W. Its like car insurance, there are those that try to get only the absolute minimum insurance required; that doesn't mean you are off the hook if insufficient to cover some types of liabilities that may result. You are running a business... regardless of what insurance company covers, it has nothing to do with your actual liabilities... thats a jury decision. The insurance company also doesn't decide what's actionable or not. Just what they will or won't cover.

Some landlord policies offer loss of income coverage which airbnb doesn't. And by the way, if a tenant gets sick or suffers injury due to a property condition mold, toxic issues etc or worse,
they can still drag you to court. Here is an example: http://www.allpropertymanagement.com/blog/2013/01/...

Just because insurance doesn't cover an issue doesn't mean you can't be sued for it or that jury will side with insurance co.

The law does require proving negligence in most cases but if someone is claiming emotional distress for instance, your liability is not always hinged on whether or not you were negligent. With the airbnb model, I see all sorts of loop holes in establishing how the landlords negligence resulted in a preventable outcome. In fact, it is almost reckless in some ways. The landlords duty of care is gradually encompassing not just tenant but the public at large. Especially with sex offenders, and habitual offenders in certain types of crimes.

There is a reason why the entire community usually gets notice in the mail when a sex offender is moving into where you live. If someone has a habit of catching a robbery case or raping just about
about every other year, is there a pattern? Is there a probability they could commit a similar crime either on your business partner/tenant or others living next door?

The airbnb model exposes the landlord considerably. I am not talking about cases where someone gets assaulted or robbed and then tries to sue landlord because property wasn't well lit or
because they didn't have security staff. There are some real dangers with the model.

Also hiring a plumber or whoever to do work at the property is a very different matter. In all likelihood they are they for a few hours and probably with some sort of supervision and probably during business hours. Totally different with renting to an unknown person who may be
living/sleeping in the same house as the tenant and tenant's kids/family for days, weeks or months and throughout the night in some cases when they are asleep. Hello!

@Jerry W. Of course there always is the chance you may incur a liability when renting property. But think, if a landlord feels it necessary to obtain insurance policy for protection on tenants he did all sorts of screens and background check on, it doesn't seem airbnb makes any such attempt. This could be a fugitive, terrorist or serial who knows what and no way to decipher. 

Also, operating a hotel (short term rentals) without a license or enabling such can be an issue in many jurisdictions.

By the way, the concern also is on what airbnb's insurance doesn't cover. According to its site:

The Host Protection Insurance program does not apply to liability arising from (1) Intentional Acts including: (i) Assault and Battery or (ii) Sexual Abuse or Molestation - (by the host or any other insured party), (2) Loss of Earnings, (3) Personal and Advertising Injury, (4) Fungi or Bacteria, (5) Chinese Drywall, (6) Communicable Diseases (7) Acts of Terrorism, (8) Product Liability, (9) Pollution and (10) Asbestos, Lead or Silica. 

This is a disturbing list of issues and yes, you can legitimately be sued. Most certainly when you start suggesting or discussing partnering with tenant to benefit from the airbnb venture. 

Their policy however does seem to allow landlord to file a claim against host if their tenant were to damage property but there are a ton of issues airbnb just flakes out of and someone will always be stuck footing the bill.

@Fred Gaston Qualifying for the final round of bidding? Why does this sound like at this stage the seller have you all already biding above the listing price? Of course unreasonably high unrefundable 'due diligence' fees should make you very skeptical.

@Joseph Duff If you are talking about hotels or apartments... on some of the RE websites, you may be able to find a group of listings in a particular city with some useful numbers... which may or may not be sufficient to draw conclusions on what the average price per unit/door should be. This ca vary dramatically based on region or market.

Also average listing price can vary (higher) from average price of actual sales. When data is scarce, I often use the equities market to identify a pool of companies in a particular space, use the median price to sales or price to earnings to compare with other numbers to have a feel for things. 

It is the case that currently on here, Hotels and Apartments usually doesn't generate as much buzz as other topics. Many of the site users focus on either rehabbing SFRs or rental of  SFRs and/or 1 to 4 units multifamily properties.