All Forum Posts by: Account Closed

As a retired landlord (13 years as an inner city landlord in Detroit and outlining areas) and so many people asking questions about investing here, let me say this......

YES there are still some sections in Detroit that have beautiful homes.

YES they are selling pretty cheap.

Tons of Property Management Companies are popping up day by day, their chops drooling with the though of all the money they can make by managing all these wonderful properties for outside investors who don't have a clue as to what Detroit has to offer.

Despite the fact that I physiclaly, lived and breathed being a landlord in the City of Detroit all these years, 24/7, seen it all, that most of you will never see in your entire landlord career, I am still challenged by some , and asked, "Why do you try to discourage people from investing here". Questions from people who are from out of state, trying to relocate others to a City that is in bankruptcy and full of crooks and yet think they know it all. They call me bitter and angry because I write about the truth, whereas they write and advertise to gain money.

Listen Folks, I have no skin in the game, no money to be made by me saying the truth. I say these things because I know how exciting it can be to dream the dream! But I also know how hard you worked for that invest money. I don't want to see you lose it! And everything you worked hard for!

So when I came across this Owner Agreement Contract with a Property Management Company that handles Detroit Properties, I laughed and said, Yep, this says it all...and here it is. (It's post online on their webpage for Owners to download and read. So I downloaded it)

.Q&A for Owners to Property Management Company

Question: My property has become vacant, what needs to be done?

Answer: If the property has become vacant it must be secured and cleaned as quickly as possible. (Property Management Company) is not responsible for damage to a property at any time, however, we take aggressive steps to ensure it is secured and protected.

Question: How is the property secured?

Answer: In most cases the properties appliances are removed and stored to protect from loss. This includes the hot water tank and the furnace I bolded this paragraph because it says it all. Yep, I've been there and done that. Dispite the fact that Security Bars are on every door and window, they put the little kids through the milk shuts and then the little rascals open up the door from inside.

Question: Is there a cost to remove the appliances?

Answer: Yes, depending upon the amount of the components that need to be removed. The labor cost is roughly $300 to $500 for removal and reinstallation.

Question: Can I request the appliances not be removed?

Answer: Yes, However, it is highly rcommended at least the furnace be removed from the house. We had just installed a $4,000 furnance, absolultely new, and the creeps broke in and stole the furnace, and it was a boiler unit for one of our old three plexes we had. Huge sucker. And they took it. Where there is a will there is a way.

Ask yourself these questions:

Do I want to have rentals in a place where I have to remove my water heater and my furnace after every tenant moves out?

And if this is such a good deal, properties in Detroit, then why aren't Michiganders buying up these properties right and left? Really, are we so stupid that we don't know a good deal when we see it. Look there are a ton of Investors in Michigan, but they stay away from Detroit.

Okay, I'm just trying to help. Do I care about Detroit? Absolutely! But ya gotta get rid of the crime first, get rid of all the Politicians in Detroit, clean house, start all over and then invest, but I'm telling you now, you do so at your own risk.

On this Property Managements Web Page I goodgled complaints and found one from an out of town investor. He said this placed couldn't keep a tenant there and he always had vacancy, but had to pay PM Fees all the same.

Just Sayin. Just trying to help. In answer to the challenging questions of why do I try to discourage people from investing in Detroit, my answer is, "You're absolutely right", why would I if it weren't true!

Nancy Neville

There are many things to take into consideration during this part of the screening process and the most important factor is the "discrimination" factor. Even though this is your home, purchased with your own money, you cannot disqualify someone because of their race, color, religion, gender, children, etc., and day by day the list gets longer and longer, so you have to be very careful in whom you choose and HOW you choose them.

The very first thing one needs to do in selecting a tenant is to do a credit check! ALWAYS! Oh, there will be times when a family appears poor and seems so nice and you know they really can't afford the constant application fee's, not to mention PER PERSON! And you will have a tendency to feel sorry for them and not charge them a fee but foot the bill yourself, "just this once" you say to yourself. But....DON'T DO IT! If the people are too poor to pay for an application fee which covers the credit check, they are too poor to rent your home! Also, it's very easy to start feeling sorry for people having to dish out money for application fees every time they apply for a rental home. But, if that is the case, then there must be something wrong. They must have evictions or law suits or bad credit and nine times out of ten, they most likely know it, but are just hoping that you might be the landlord who doesn't do the credit check.

Nancy Neville

I was running a special on my book for awhile. My book has almost 400 pages of step by step instructions.

I like Jon, and we both teach somewhat alike. Depends on the type of style you like. Since I am a landlord I teach like a landlord and don't use Accounting Terminology. I also tell you why you need to do this or that and how it affects us as landlords.

Nancy Neville

Hello Marshall, my name is Nancy Neville and I'm a retired landlord. My husband and I were landlords in Detroit and outlining areas. We owned 40 rental properties which ranged from apartments to duplexes to mostly single family homes. Welcome aboard!

Nancy Neville

I love talking about Detroit as it has been my mission for many years to educate investors about landlording and what it entails, as well as enlightening the media as to who landlords really are. Of course the media, the courts, and our tenants and some times our family and friends, look upon us as the Dastardly Landlord, and that's because landlords in the past have given that impression. But let's get back to the subject at hand.

In 1985 when my husband purchased these properties, Detroit was still a pretty decent city. At that time the homes were selling for a song and a dance just like today and my husband purchased one right after another until finally we had 40 rental units which ranged from apartments to duplexes to multi-families, but mostly single family homes.

In 1997 things were starting to take a turn for the worse, but it wasn't as bad as what it was when we left in 2009. Each year was getting rougher, the courts getting tougher and more ridiculous and the Politicians in the City squandered our tax paying dollars on themselves and their friends and family.

Our tenants weren't the problems it was the courts and the city itself. Crime was in abundance, drive by shootings every night, and still is.

My tenants looked to us to protect them by begging us to put security bars on their windows and doors and we did at our expense, because the Police Dept, couldn't be everywhere at all times, if they came at all, and we cared about our tenants.

From 2001 I started telling my husband we needed to sell. We were getting up there in age and it was tough trying to take care of all of our properties ourselves since we could no longer find a handyman or a contractor to do the repairs due to their vans and tools being stolen while they were in the homes working. But my husband still had great dreams that the city would come back.

By 2006 Detroit became a "hell hole". The punks of the city stole our furnaces, water heaters, and siding off the house on the houses we owned that had siding. Mostly all of our homes were brick homes. They stole the copper pipes, and even stole the wet bar in the finished basements. They stole our refrigerators and stoves and anything they could. It was crucial to get our houses rented right away, so that the vacancies wouldn't entice break ins, (but when you have a lot of properties and many vacancies, (as houses were being given to anyone at that time that could breathe) it left us with many vacancies at one time.) It was a disaster. And the City just kept on taxing it's people and making it harder on the landlord to survive, and the crime made the rest of residents leave, leaving the City of Detroit with a populace of now about 700,000 people.

In 2009 we had had it. We were too old to do it all by ourselves, and we couldn't keep up any longer. I was glad that my husband finally came to his senses and agreed to sell even though we could only get about $5,000 a piece for them at that time, even though they were once valued in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. But we sold cheap because we couldn't do it all by ourselves any more.

The stories I write about are true. My husband and lived them and because I have lived them, I have 13 years of stories under my belt and have written books about our life as landlords in the City of Detroit.

You ask why would I discourage someone from succeeding where I failed? Well I guess that would depend on your idea of failure. In my eyes anyone who has survived being a landlord anywhere for 30 years clearly has done something right. But each to their own point of view I guess.

Nancy Neville

Thank you Lisa for confirming my statement. Let me say this about Dearborn. Neat as a pin...growing fast. However...it is a tight community.

My advice to "newbies" with stars in their eyes seeing these houses offered so cheap, in questionable areas, is to start off first in areas you can handle to get your feet wet. Get experience first. Then when you get tough enough, then start thinking about other areas.

Keep in mind that the court system you will be dealing with. Sit in court sessions from time to time to get the feel of the Judge, what goes on.

Some of our properties were in Inkster as well. That Judge was something else. Our court time would be at 8:30 a.m. and we wouldn't get out of there until 5pm. Reasons: Judge showed up around 10 am or noon. Or she just would wait to see if the tenant would show up and if they didn't would feel so sorry about them not showing up, that she reluctantly ruled in the landlords favor.

Mad house!

One time I remember when my husband and I went to court in Detroit, (this made us laugh right out loud) the Judge walked into the court room, from the entrance where the public enters. (We were all seated in the court room waiting for her to arrive). She walked down the isle, her long black robe flowing behind her, and behind her was another gal, carrying a silver tray, with the Judges' Teapot and cup and saucer on the tray. My husband and I looked at each other as though we were in a comedy show and laughed, but then caught ourselves. I've written many stories about our life in the City of Detroit.

Thanks again Lisa. Perhaps you and I can help others to be careful where they invest. We only do so because we care....right? It's not our money! So I do so because I've been there and done that.

Nancy Neville

I'm sorry, I don't want to hinder your sales Annette, because I was a Realtor as well, but I just can't sit back and let people invest in an area such as Detroit unless they know the full story.

As a 13 year investor/Landlord in the City of Detroit (My husband 30 years), we have had our plumber beaten and killed, our Heating Contractors Van stolen twice and all his tools, our best friend beaten up and robbed, another best friend almost beaten up, but the punks picked on the wrong guy, and our friend tossed him over the bridge. (Our friend was a former Senior Mr. America and strong as an ox).

My husband and I carried. We paid $36,000 a year in property taxes. The City of Detroit District Court is a Zoo and a joke and are Pro-Tenant (Liberal City). The City will charge you $3,600 if your grass is over an inch long.

I dug out many bullets from our rental homes from the walls, just above the baby's crib!!!!! and inches from the TV in the living room and inches from my Tenants head, and my rentals were not in the Ghetto. They were in nice neighborhoods where the working Ford Motor Company employees use to live.

Yes, you hear these horror stories, and many want to pretend that these stories are not as bad as they seem. But take it from a long term veteran (me) that the stories you hear I true.

My husband and I try to purchase several homes on a block in order to have some control of the community and the block. It worked for awhile, but other landlords, who didn't know as much as us, just rented to anyone, and therefore, down, down, down, goes the neighborhood and the further demise of Detroit.

Too bad the smell of Dollar signs of properties selling for a song and a dance in Detroit sounds sooooo good. But let me tell you, in order to invest in these area's you better be experienced, that's all I can say. It's a matter of life and death, not just a matter of Profit and Loss.

Once again the neighborhood Annette is showing is fabulous! I'd love to live there myself! But, as I said, Detroit's a falling city. Clean up the crime first, get some good politicians in government, and clean up the city and then GO FOR IT! But now is not the right time.

Nancy Neville

Yes very grand, indeed. But I should put up a video of what you see in order to get to this community.

When my husband and I still were landlords in Detroit we thought of buying a home for us in this section of town. Ya gotta admit, these homes are gorgeous. But the taxes will eat you alive. The City of Detroit is looking for money. They are broke and they will tax you to death and be on your butt for every little thing.

You have to ask yourself why everyone is leaving Detroit. It's not because it doesn't have pretty houses like your video depicts. It's because of the not knowing whether or not you will be the next victim.

If you work downtown Detroit and live in these areas I suppose it's quite a thought. But, once again, it's what you see and have to go through to get to these neighborhoods is another story.

Yes very grand indeed. I'd hate to feel nervous and jerky every moment of my life living in a gorgeous home, verses, feeling secure in a home not so nice.

Remember, Detroit has lost half its fire department and police force. It takes about two hours for a police response.

Nancy Neville, 30 year investor in the City of Detroit

I always pro-rated my rents because I wanted all my rents to be due on the 1st of the month. With 40 rental units I didn't want to have to go to court every day of the month due to various rental due dates. So it was crucial for me to pro-rate rents so that if and when I did have to go to court for non payment of rent, that I could do them all at one time. (I always handled my own cases and never lost a case in all those years and my properties were in Detroit! :0))

If you hire an attorney, there are some that will give you a discount for having several tenants at one time to take care of verses just one here and there.

Nancy Neville

As an Inner City Landlord in the City of Detroit since 1985 and retired in 2009 I think I maybe able to help you.

When my husband purchased our properties in 1985 the area was pretty good at that time. However it began to go downhill around 2006, we sold our properties in 2009 and took a beating financially.

Location, location, location is the key. If the neighborhood looked well groomed, houses have nice curb appeal, decent school district then it's looking good. This could be in the Country, in the Metro areas, etc. As long as it looks decent, then take your next step.

You can tell also by checking the rental prices for that neighborhood and see what they're running for in the papers and such.

Keep an eye on for changes that take place over the years and don't wait too long like we did. My husband thought the City of Detroit would come back because of all the building going on surrounding the Waterfronts. Downtown Detroit is quite grand, but...unfortunately, nobody wants to live in the surrounding area. Trying to get him to sell was like pulling teeth. Finally he did see, and I finally got him to sell.

Nancy Neville