All Forum Posts by: Owen Rosen

Quote from @Steven Westlake:

With this last round of insurance increases we are paying almost $50 per month per apartment. I am considering how hard it is to collect anything when theres a problem. how much the deductible is means I’m already covering all the smaller items. Then every little claim means my rate climbs again. Not to mention the paperwork pain involved with each claim

Any thoughts on just not having any insurance at all, or just some sort of liability and really high deductible ?

With 6 apartments were at $3600 per year

From 10,000 feet $1,800 per triplex is not bad at all.  However, Is it replacement cost or actual cash value? Or something else? What is your current deductible? What else has been updated? What perils are covered? What has specific exclusions or limitations?  I could go on and on...

There are countless factors in play here and it makes answering this question or assessing cost very difficult.  What really matters is what's important to you and whether or not your agent has the skill and market access to ensure you're getting a good value.

I would strongly suggest a true independent broker rather than Goosehead.  Why?

1. Knowledge.  Goosehead has loose standards for bringing on franchise agents.

2. Service.  Goosehead charges their agents 50% of commission to service accounts on their behalf.  Goosehead operates large call centers with no personal service and undertrained/overworked staff.  

Your agent is incentivized (and for survival they need to offload as much service as possible) to send you to a call center for anything after the initial sale.  Call the service center and see how long it takes to speak with a live person.  It can be brutal.

3. Carrier selection.  Goosehead (because of their lax onboarding standards) does not get the pick of the litter when it comes to carrier appointments and they've caused significant issues with profitability at many of the carriers they do have relationships with.  As a national brokerage they also don't have many key relationships with smaller regional players.

4. Commercial insurance capabilities.  Goosehead is very much a personal lines centered franchise.  They don't have the capabilities to handle sophisticated accounts or much that veers towards commercial lines insurance.

5. Agents come and go.  Many Goosehead agents are not prepared to deal with owning an insurance agency and don't last long.  I've heard turnover approaches 50%.  Not surprising.

I could go on but I think you get the gist.  I will say that there are MANY great Goosehead agents out there but the overall setup is not good for the consumer and it's hard finding who's serious vs. who simply had cash for the franchise fee.

Just my 2 cents and opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

I think you've done more than enough and contents are always the responsibility of the renter.  

I would require renters insurance and make it easy for them to purchase providing online options and suggestions to add to their car insurance, etc.

Farm Bureau is a mess in Michigan.  I mention this only because there's no one-sized fits all approach.  My recommendation is to work with a knowledge independent agent that can pair you with the right company.  Make a relationship with that agent or agency because you can't make a relationship with an insurance company.

What kind of insurance do you have?  That is impossible to answer without knowing more.

Do you have insurance specific to a vacant property?  How long has it been vacant?  Does the policy cover theft (likely no if the policy was purchased as a vacant property) but it might cover vandalism and malicious mischief.  I could go on...

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Owen Rosen:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Owen Rosen:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @David Fitch:

Quote from @Craig Janet:

I don't deny that the insurance companies have had a bad couple of years but What about all the years perhaps decades they were profitable? What happened to all that money? It went to the shareholders and CEOs instead of putting it aside for the bad times. Very shortsighted!

I think the casino analogy is accurate the casino doesn't just cut and run after a high roller goes on a hot streak. They have reserves to weather the ups and downs. I live in Louisiana and we went 15 years without a major storm then we were hit with two and all of sudden the insurance companies are broke and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

First, they have to maintain required reserves that are dictated by regulators, and that money isn't part of what gets distributed to shareholders as profit. 

Second, as a result of the same changes I already mentioned, those reserves have gotten absolutely crushed. Example: let's say an Insurer brings in $20B in revenue. Let's say that $17B of that normally gets paid out in claims; that $2B of that is the cost of operating the company, and that leaves $1B. Let's say $500M of that gets put on the pile of investable cash, and the other $500M is distributed to shareholders as dividends. 

Now, let's look at the severity of events over the last 5+ years. There have been MULTIPLE $4B+ individual loss events between fires, floods, etc. That is orders of magnitude larger than previous decades. Using your analogy, it would be equivalent of that high roller sitting down with a million bucks, and within a few hours being up $250M. I guarantee you the Casino would politely cut that person off LONG before they made that much money. It happens all the time - if someone goes up too much, they suspect cheating but if they can't prove it, they simply as the player to leave.

 this is why i said they hit 3 standard deviation, the problem is they are then try to hike the price rather than absorbing the loss in one year. This can be seen from my prev. chart of auto industry claim.

the solution for this problem is new insurer comes up, like bamboo insurance is now insuring in CA with adequate and fair pricing but i dont want to promote them.

Car prices are not "reduced" for new or used vehicles during this inflationary period. That's absurd.

Cars are much more expensive than pre-covid just like most everything else. Maintenance is irrelevant when it comes to insurance. We are talking about cost to repair after a claim not to mention there are liability and medical costs that have nothing to do with the physical damage to the vehicle.

We are also now throwing car insurance into the mix when this entire thread was related to property insurance.

You've personally determined that Bamboo has adequate and fair pricing?  Gosh, why didn't all of the carriers pulling out of California hire you to make them fair and profitable?

Carlos, I've tried to be polite and you're entitled to your opinions but you're spouting off uninformed nonsense.

 not sure why you are so mad

are you CEO of State Farm ?

that’s what happened over here , new carrier is coming up, Is bamboo your competitor or what ? Lol

I'm an independent agency owner. No affiliation with State Farm in fact they're a direct competitor.
I actually don't conduct business in California and love when I have more companies that I can work with. I have no issues with Bamboo whatsoever I just think it's hilarious that you think they have "adequate" pricing when you have zero way of knowing that and zero understanding of the insurance industry. 
That would be totally normal except you think you're an expert!

 Well I don't know why you are so offended and consider people that know other industry without much respect. I like reading all other industries working and it's not that secretive information, it is public information where  everyone with little bit of brain can understand how other industry is working.

Thing is with insurance, your industry is affecting everyone. I got insurance hiking in California Alabama Hawaii and Wisconsin too, sometimes the number is so ridicilious that I immediately called another agent. Bamboo insurance is yes helping me to switch from Nationwide , I got only $400 increase not that bad ; not to mentioned there're other other insurance too that cancel the policy.

Also another thing that's very difficult to comprehend with homeowner insurance in cashflow market is that the rebuilding cost is much higher than the market value of the house itself.

Sometimes rebuild cost is higher.  Sometimes market value is higher.  Sometimes they're very close.  What part is hard to comprehend?  Happy to try and assist with an explanation.

How much was paid out?  Can you have the damaged area inspected?  It's not uncommon to forget about claims...

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Owen Rosen:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @David Fitch:

Quote from @Craig Janet:

I don't deny that the insurance companies have had a bad couple of years but What about all the years perhaps decades they were profitable? What happened to all that money? It went to the shareholders and CEOs instead of putting it aside for the bad times. Very shortsighted!

I think the casino analogy is accurate the casino doesn't just cut and run after a high roller goes on a hot streak. They have reserves to weather the ups and downs. I live in Louisiana and we went 15 years without a major storm then we were hit with two and all of sudden the insurance companies are broke and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

First, they have to maintain required reserves that are dictated by regulators, and that money isn't part of what gets distributed to shareholders as profit. 

Second, as a result of the same changes I already mentioned, those reserves have gotten absolutely crushed. Example: let's say an Insurer brings in $20B in revenue. Let's say that $17B of that normally gets paid out in claims; that $2B of that is the cost of operating the company, and that leaves $1B. Let's say $500M of that gets put on the pile of investable cash, and the other $500M is distributed to shareholders as dividends. 

Now, let's look at the severity of events over the last 5+ years. There have been MULTIPLE $4B+ individual loss events between fires, floods, etc. That is orders of magnitude larger than previous decades. Using your analogy, it would be equivalent of that high roller sitting down with a million bucks, and within a few hours being up $250M. I guarantee you the Casino would politely cut that person off LONG before they made that much money. It happens all the time - if someone goes up too much, they suspect cheating but if they can't prove it, they simply as the player to leave.

 this is why i said they hit 3 standard deviation, the problem is they are then try to hike the price rather than absorbing the loss in one year. This can be seen from my prev. chart of auto industry claim.

the solution for this problem is new insurer comes up, like bamboo insurance is now insuring in CA with adequate and fair pricing but i dont want to promote them.

Car prices are not "reduced" for new or used vehicles during this inflationary period. That's absurd.

Cars are much more expensive than pre-covid just like most everything else. Maintenance is irrelevant when it comes to insurance. We are talking about cost to repair after a claim not to mention there are liability and medical costs that have nothing to do with the physical damage to the vehicle.

We are also now throwing car insurance into the mix when this entire thread was related to property insurance.

You've personally determined that Bamboo has adequate and fair pricing?  Gosh, why didn't all of the carriers pulling out of California hire you to make them fair and profitable?

Carlos, I've tried to be polite and you're entitled to your opinions but you're spouting off uninformed nonsense.

 not sure why you are so mad

are you CEO of State Farm ?

that’s what happened over here , new carrier is coming up, Is bamboo your competitor or what ? Lol

I'm an independent agency owner. No affiliation with State Farm in fact they're a direct competitor.
I actually don't conduct business in California and love when I have more companies that I can work with. I have no issues with Bamboo whatsoever I just think it's hilarious that you think they have "adequate" pricing when you have zero way of knowing that and zero understanding of the insurance industry. 
That would be totally normal except you think you're an expert!

Quote from @Jane Z.:

We have been struggled on and off with landlord and umbrella insurance for our 12 rental properties for many years. Currently AllState provides landlord insurance for all 12 rental properties. AllState used to have 10 properties limitation, then removed it because we did not have any claim. Hudson provides umbrella insurance for home/auto and 12 rentals. However, we just received Hudson's renewal letter that they don't provide umbrella insurance for auto any more. My insurance agent thinks one possible solution is to have AllState provides umbrella insurance for home/auto only. AllState's umbrella insurance have 9 rentals plus 1 home limitation (max 10). Therefore, it could not cover all 12 rentals. Besides it is very expensive when includes rentals in their umbrella insurance. But that means my home would be insured under both AllState and Hudson, which I don't want. But even this is cheaper than AllState umbrella insurance with 9 rentals plus 1 home. My insurance agent will ask whether Hudson could remove my home for their umbrella insurance policy. Hopefully this will be the solution. 

 Allstate (captive) is not a good place to be if you need any sort of sophistication with your risk management

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @David Fitch:

Quote from @Craig Janet:

I don't deny that the insurance companies have had a bad couple of years but What about all the years perhaps decades they were profitable? What happened to all that money? It went to the shareholders and CEOs instead of putting it aside for the bad times. Very shortsighted!

I think the casino analogy is accurate the casino doesn't just cut and run after a high roller goes on a hot streak. They have reserves to weather the ups and downs. I live in Louisiana and we went 15 years without a major storm then we were hit with two and all of sudden the insurance companies are broke and left the taxpayers holding the bag.

First, they have to maintain required reserves that are dictated by regulators, and that money isn't part of what gets distributed to shareholders as profit. 

Second, as a result of the same changes I already mentioned, those reserves have gotten absolutely crushed. Example: let's say an Insurer brings in $20B in revenue. Let's say that $17B of that normally gets paid out in claims; that $2B of that is the cost of operating the company, and that leaves $1B. Let's say $500M of that gets put on the pile of investable cash, and the other $500M is distributed to shareholders as dividends. 

Now, let's look at the severity of events over the last 5+ years. There have been MULTIPLE $4B+ individual loss events between fires, floods, etc. That is orders of magnitude larger than previous decades. Using your analogy, it would be equivalent of that high roller sitting down with a million bucks, and within a few hours being up $250M. I guarantee you the Casino would politely cut that person off LONG before they made that much money. It happens all the time - if someone goes up too much, they suspect cheating but if they can't prove it, they simply as the player to leave.

 this is why i said they hit 3 standard deviation, the problem is they are then try to hike the price rather than absorbing the loss in one year. This can be seen from my prev. chart of auto industry claim.

the solution for this problem is new insurer comes up, like bamboo insurance is now insuring in CA with adequate and fair pricing but i dont want to promote them.

Car prices are not "reduced" for new or used vehicles during this inflationary period. That's absurd.

Cars are much more expensive than pre-covid just like most everything else. Maintenance is irrelevant when it comes to insurance. We are talking about cost to repair after a claim not to mention there are liability and medical costs that have nothing to do with the physical damage to the vehicle.

We are also now throwing car insurance into the mix when this entire thread was related to property insurance.

You've personally determined that Bamboo has adequate and fair pricing?  Gosh, why didn't all of the carriers pulling out of California hire you to make them fair and profitable?

Carlos, I've tried to be polite and you're entitled to your opinions but you're spouting off uninformed nonsense.