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All Forum Posts by: Joe Wilson

Joe Wilson has started 0 posts and replied 119 times.

Post: LLC?

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

For flipping or wholesaling, become a corporation and elect S-status. For renting property, use an LLC.

Post: LLC or just Good insurance

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

A very good friend of mine. Very smart, real estate experience, international experience.

http://www.frazierdeeter.com/people/moore.shtml

Note: this is not me and I am not soliciting. This is just a referral with no incentive given to me, just the same as JScott.

Post: Installment sale tax treatment question

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

Finance - I don't understand what you are writing there. You seem all over the place. You want me to cover the treatment of accepting a deed-in-lieu in year X? Or is that another thread?

At any rate, you should not pay taxes on money that you have never received which is why you determine a profit ratio and recognize a portion of the gain as you recieve money.

Jon - The gain will all be capital. There is Unrecaptured §1250 Depreciation gain which is taxed at the maximum of 25% rate.

Depending on your filing status, the first $75,000 is taxed at the lower tax rates of 10% & 15% and then 25%. Then the amount above the 1250 Unrecap is taxed at the maximum capital gains rate of 15%. All of this gain is taxed at capital gains rates of some form.

If you have Ordinary income in addition, then that income will use up the lower ordinary tax rates first and more of the Unrecap 1250 gain will be pushed up to the 25% Cap tax, but never more than 25% capital gains rate.

None of the gain on the sale of the condo is ordinary in nature.

Post: LLC

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

Would you have inventory as a wholeseller? Seems like you have an ordinary trade or business, so I would go the S-corp route so you can save on SE tax.

Post: LLC or just Good insurance

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by Rich Weese:
Great points here!

Cheryl C- One big reason. If your assets are in a revocable trust, and you receive a judgement against you -you may be forced to offer your assets up for settlement. An IRREVOCABLE trust protects you against that, according to my legal counsel. You may still control all your assets as the mgr/trustee of the Trust and make the decisions. This formula has worked well for me for many years. I have other more detailed blogs/threads on BP.

Rich

Rich - I do not agree with your statements regarding Irrevocable Trusts and protection from creditors and estate planning.

You state that you can control all your assets as a Trustee and make decisions within your Irrevocable Trust. You may not be as protected as you think you are and you certainly have not properly set up your estate plan properly if you have these powers within your trust. You've just made it a Grantor Trust!

To be an Irrevocable Trust that avoids estate and income tax to the the Grantor, the Grantor cannot act as the trustee, receive income or other benefit from the trust or receive the assets from the trust.

The asset protection provided by an irrevocable trust depends upon the degree of control that the grantor retains over the trust. The more control the more exposure to creditors. At a minimum, the grantor should NOT retain any power to revoke, distinct or amend the trust; reserve any rights to take back property once transferred to the trust; have any authority on how trust property will be managed on invested; have any control over income distributions from the trust and serve as trustee.

So if you are controlling it and are using the funds from it, then it will be brought back into your estate for tax purposes and will be accessible to a court and creditors.

There are many types of trusts out there and each situation should utilize a different type of trust to achieve your goals.

Joe

Post: LLC w/ S-Corp Election vs. Plain S-Corp

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

WOW! Bringing up a thread from the dead! This thing is what 6 years old?

Agree JScott. So much fail in this thread. Except mine of course! Man....why do people that don't know answer these potentially costly questions!

Excess passive income rules comes into play when you have been a C-corp before and have accumulated c-corp earnings & profits.

You can choose to be an S-corp after you have chosen to be taxed as a corporation. The only thing you are doing is changing the tax treatment of the entity by the IRS. You will still be subject to the S-chapter rules for tax filing purposes.

From an entity perspective and state law perspective, you are an LLC and will be bound by the state law rules governing LLCs and not corporations.

Be very careful who you read on here and follow advice from. Even one CPA says to go to a real tax CPA because honestly he doesn't know.

Post: Installment sale tax treatment question

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

Jon,
First, I did not mention interest. I was only speaking about the gain on the sale of the real property, §1250 property, which is the condo.

Interest on the note is ordinary income and does not compute in the gain calculation of any asset that is sold nor does it compute in the depreciation recapture rules, if applicable.

Second, you must be confused with §1245 & §1250 property. §1245 property recapture is all depreciation claimed. There will be ordinary recapture, no question, if you allocate any proceeds that are higher than tax basis. §1250 property recapture is the extent of the excess of depreciation over the depreciation that would have been available under the straight-line method. "Residential rental property and nonresidential real property that is placed in service after 1986 and is subject to the MACRS rules must be depreciated under the straight-line MACRS method. Therefore, recapture of depreciation on such property is not required because no depreciation in excess of straight-line could have been taken." 2011 USMTG ¶1780

In your scenerio, Cost $100,000 and depreciated $75,000 so the basis is $25,000. You agree to a sale price of $150,000 and your gain will be $125,000.

Installment sale calculated like so: 125,000/150,000 = 0.8333 profit ratio. You use this to determine your gain on the proceeds you receive over the course of the payments.

Year 1: $50,000 received: 50,000 * 0.8333 = $41,667 Gain recognized (as discussed and proven above - no ordinary recapture)

Years 2 - X: Interest received on the note outstanding is taxed at ordinary rates, but this is not gain on the sale of the property and was never part of my original posting about the gain on the sale of the condo.

Year X: There is $100,000 note left to be repaid and in your scenerio $110,000 is paid. The first $100,000 will be applied to the installment note gain ratio of .8333 so that is $83,333 worth of CAPITAL gain to recognize and then the additional $10,000 amount of extra payment is all gain and would be added to the $83,333 for a total of $93,333. Again, §1250 property does not have Ordinary Recapture so there is no Ordinary Gain to recognize.

In year X, when you receive or change the agreed amount to be paid, you theoretically should go back to amend the original tax filing to adjust the gain ratio and recognize the proper gain in the first year and pay any interest and penalties, if due and recalculate the proper gain in the final year. But there are other factors that would come into play like statute of limitations depending on how long the installment agreement lasted for and then there's substance over form issue that we would just correct in the final year of payment. If you just made a typo, then forget everything I just wrote about in this last paragraph and follow the gain of $83,333.

Again, no Ordinary Recapture on the sale of ANY §1250 property which is buildings and their structural components, and all tangible real property, IE-condo, apartment, home or commercial building. Don't confuse Unrecaptured Gain which is tax at capital gains rates at a maximum of 25%.

I have a ton of experience as well and worked at a BIG 4 firm in the real estate department. I ran a commercial rental real estate engagement that comprisd of 156 consolidated companies (not including the disregarded SMLLCs) and was on the workflow efficiency team to create standardized Excel workbooks for Residential Real Estate Partnerships for all of the offices of the firm to utilize when preparing partnership returns. It helped tremendously when we had to report thousands of GP K-1s to the Upreit partnership that would flow into the REIT tax return.

I am not saying that I am better than anyone or perfect, but I do feel quite confident in saying that I am correct in this little discussion of ours regarding the character of gain recognized in the sale of a condo.

Regards.

Post: LLC or just Good insurance

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

I am more of an advocate of asset protection and tax management. Insurance can be used for asset protection, but not so much in your situation with the amount of properties you have. I would look at your overall tax makeup and valuation, as JScott says, and determine what is best for you tax wise in addition to protecting your personal assets.

Post: Installment sale tax treatment question

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

Jon, Daniel & everyone.....please. You are wrong. The property is not §1231 property. It is §1250 property which recapture is Accelerated Depreciation over Straight line depreciation and there hasn't been Accel Depreciation on real property since 1986 so THERE IS NO DEPRECIATION RECAPTURE OR ORDINARY GAIN to recognize.

Finance guy, you can NOT arbitrarily allocate all of your receipts to basis first on an installment sale. You will get busted by the IRS and get hit with heavy penalties. You must calculate your gross profit % and apply that ratio to the amount of cash (principle) you receive to determine your gain for that tax period.

When they say they aren't CPAs then don't listen to what they say when it comes to taxes. I don't tell people how to do a 5 way bypass even though it is a cookie cutter surgery now a days and there may be a book on it or a software program that might explain how to do it. Listen to CPAs.....good tax CPAs.

1031 transactions have very strict rules to follow. Need to read up on those each time I come across one to keep up to speed on it.

Post: LLC or just Good insurance

Joe WilsonPosted
  • Accountant
  • Newtown, CT
  • Posts 123
  • Votes 34

There is a point where too much insurance is costing more than the benefit. Cheryl, if you are going to up your insurance just because someone said to do it without a thought, then I could use an extra grand. Thank you and I should expect it in the mail.

I would have an LLC for each property. If there is activity in the company and the company holds the property, then it would not be considered just a "shell company" and be pierced. Most companies that are pierced are ones that are created for nefarious reasons by individuals with fraud in mind to hide things. I wouldn't hold multiple properties in one LLC because then if something happens at one property, then you potentially could lose all of them.

I would have an LLC as the owner of the property with a $1-2M insurance policy. No real need for more unless there are a lot of valuable assets within the LLC to protect using insurance. If that is the case, then I would have one LLC owning and operating the building and another LLC owning the valuable personal property and rent it to the building LLC.

Anyway, I wouldn't go with a huge insurance policy only. Once word gets out, then you have slip 'n falls happening all the time just to get your money.

I deal with foreign companies and individuals at our firm.
[SOLICITATION REMOVED]

Regards,
Joe