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All Forum Posts by: Dan Schwartz

Dan Schwartz has started 9 posts and replied 855 times.

Post: 1031 - Calculations of depreciation and various bases with and without the exchange

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647

I am in the middle of a 1031 exchange.  The blog by Jeff Brown in today's newsletter (http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/07/25/real-estate-investors-myths-eternal-truths/) was the latest place where I heard him beating the drum about 1031s only being worthwhile as a last resort.  His is the only voice that I hear say so in such an emphatic way, but it's convincing enough to get me to dig deeper!

My understanding of the various parts of the 1031, using my current transaction as an illustration:

#1 The replacement property needs to be more expensive in total than the relinquished property.  Done.

#2 All of the equity (including gains) from the relinquished property must be rolled into the replacement property.  Done.

#3 Time restrictions apply.  Done.

The original basis in my relinquished property was $85,055.  The net proceeds were $114,940.

114940

  85055-

  29885 capital gain

At the time of sale, $8,914 had been taken in depreciation.  This number was not taken out of the original basis above in calculating the capital gains.  Correct?

Taxes due if no exchange occurs:

29,885 cap gains x 15% rate = $4,483

8,914 depreciation x 25% dep recovery rate = $2,229

$6,712 total taxes due if no exchange is made.

The knock on the exchange process is that there is a loss in depreciation.  So I calculated what the depreciation would be with and without the exchange.  Without the exchange is the easier one:

Replacement property value: $230,000.

Improvement:Land Ratio: 80%

Depreciable basis: 230,000 x .8 = 184,000

184,000 / 27.5 years depreciation = 6,691 annually 

With the exchange, my understanding is that the depreciation falls into three tranches:

1) exchanged basis, which is a "carrying-on" of the relinquished property's depreciation schedule 

2) deferred gain, which is not depreciable, and

3) excess basis, which is the replacement purchase price less #1 and #2 above.

Exchanged basis = 

original cost basis - depreciation taken = 

85,055 - 8,914 = 76,141.  This will continue to depreciate according to the relinquished property's schedule, which in my case was $3,015 per year (which already backs out the land and incorporates some small post-purchase improvements)

Deferred gain = 

proceeds of sale - exchanged basis = 

114,940 - 76,141 = 38,799.  This is the same as "capital gain + depreciation taken."  No further depreciation can be taken on this amount.  This is the tranche that I believe Jeff Brown was focusing on, as this is the portion of the replacement purchase price that cannot be depreciated.

Excess basis = 

Replacement purchase price - Deferred gain - Exchanged basis = 

(I am not including closing costs and any future improvements in the purchase price)

230,000 - 38,799 - 76,141 = 115,060 

The excess basis needs to be divided between land and improvements, and I'll use the same 80% factor as above.

115,060 * 80% = 92,048

92,048 / 27.5 years depreciation = 3,347 annually

The summary of my depreciation tranches (as I'm calling them) is

3,015 Exchanged depreciation

0 Deferred gain depreciation

3,347 Excess depreciation

6,362 Total depreciation (for 12 more years, then it will go down by about $100, then the exchanged depreciation will drop off after an additional 12.5 years) 

Comparison of depreciations:

6,691 without exchange

6,362 with exchange

   329 annual difference in depreciation amounts 

At the 39.6% tax rate (which is not my tax rate), the $329 difference in depreciation is worth $130 a year in taxes saved (deferred, technically, due to the depreciation recapture).  It would take over 50 years of this tax savings (which is impossible) for $130 maximum annual savings to add up to the  $6,712 I can take now.

Upon sale, the gain will be subject to capital gains tax, and the depreciation will be subject to depreciation recapture.  Both occur with or without the 1031 exchange, so I did not incorporate them here.  The risk over time is that one or both of these rates increase between now and when the taxes are paid.  That is a real risk.

I'm eager to hear if this analysis is correct.  Of course every situation is different and maybe if I had held the first property longer, or if the first property's land were worth more, or if I were in a different tax bracket, etc etc, the analysis might yield a different result.

But if my calculations are correct, then I am not suffering from a (significant) reduction in depreciation, and I would much rather deploy the deferred capital gains in my next property than pay them at this time.  After all, the amount of the gain is locked in forever.  I will always owe some percentage of $29,885 to the IRS and all things equal, I would rather pay them in 2050 dollars than 2015 dollars!

Fire away.  Please. 

Post: Sturdy Dishwasher Brand

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647
Detergent dispenser on my Whirlpool Gold failed years ago. Bugged me, but we lived with it. Moved into another house, and the detergent dispenser doesn't work on the dishwasher there, either. I've resigned myself to simply dumping detergent on the door and pushing "start." Sigh.

Post: Seller Response - Now I CAN'T BREATHE!!!

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647

Last year, I was trying to buy 10 units on two adjacent parcels from one seller. We offered what they were worth to us, and the response was that they had a full price offer in hand from earlier in the day that they simply hasn't signed yet. (Funny how after 10 months on the market another ofer came in that same day....and at full price no less!). 

Wished them luck and watched as the properties still sat on the market.  It ultimately closed for less than we were willing to pay. 

Post: Why would anyone get rid of a good asset?

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647

Boy, not every reason is so dire. 

We just sold a well-performing fourplex bought in the depths of the crash because 

A) we had our first child

B) we moved 

C) the fourplex is now 20 minutes farther from where we live and any trip there is at least an hour round trip

D) I'd rather spend that time with the baby

E) the selling price was two years worth of cash flow higher than we expected it to be. We were planning to sell in about two years, so when we could capture that profit with a sale instead of a hold, we sold it. 

I met the buyer to introduce him to the tenants and I think he is going to do even better than we did. Wins all around. I was tickled when he showed up with his wife and one year old daughter to meet the tenants.  

Different strokes for different folks. Not every situation is a disaster waiting to be salvaged (much as we investors love to pounce on those!)

Post: Is The Purchase Price of Properties Deductible As An Expense?

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647

Generally, the purchase price is depreciated. The depreciation is deductible, but the purchase price is not. Expenses incurred in the operation of the rental are deductible. 

Sounds like you are ceding a lot of control, knowledge, and responsibility to this partner. Get someone on your side quickly to represent your interests. A CPA could be a good start. 

Good luck!

Post: security-deposit awkwardness

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647
Here's what we do for our few SFHs: anyone can come by, check out the place and fill out an application. We encourage them to fill out an application, since they made the effort to come by. We inform them that there is an application fee, but that we aren't in the business of collecting application fees from everyone who walks through he door. The fee covers our cost of a background and credit check (through NTN). No one has minded paying it. We further say that we are only interested in collecting the fee if they are serious about the home. We collect the fee by check or by credit card. I don't think we've ever collected from someone we didn't ultimately rent to. You seem to be landlording from afar. I suggest getting a Square account (free) to take CC numbers over the phone (if the tenant is willing to), and a PayPal account (free) for those that don't want to give their CC number. We have also been paid by Chase QuickPay (receiver does not need a Chase account), and I'm sure many other big banks out there have similar programs to send money to external clients. The CCs will cost you a small discount fee, but it beats not collecting anything at all. Chase QuickPay is free to the receiver (not sure about he sender, but I suspect it is). If you have a website (sounds like you do), I really like Stripe as an online payment processor.

Post: Paying Tax on Rent

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647
Sorry for the double post. iPhone app froze.

Post: Paying Tax on Rent

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647
If you have two or more doors in the City of Phoenix, 2% of the gross rent is due to the City as tax. Call it whatever you want, but it is collected on the same pink form as sales tax and the check is made out to the same Phoenix City Treasurer. All that is different is the code assigned to the tax. The annual license fee is also less than a retail sales tax license. The rate is 2% because that is the city tax rate. The county and state (the other 6.3% of the Arizona sales tax rate) do not collect sales tax on gross rents. Every municipality is different, but this is common in AZ.

Post: Irrationality of HML rates -- one size fits most?

Dan SchwartzPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
  • Posts 874
  • Votes 647
Search for Private Mortgage Lenders instead of HML. Find a broker that can go beyond 4 conventional mortgages. Search the forums for he broker that discussed "overlays," as he should be able to write your fifth mortgage and beyond. Show your portfolio, equity, and net worth to a local bank and see what they will do.