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All Forum Posts by: Heshel Mangel

Heshel Mangel has started 25 posts and replied 198 times.

Originally posted by @Jason S.:

I purchased a SFH from Roofstock in August 2018. I did my own research, but the feedback from BP members who shared their previous experiences with the company informed me about what to expect and helped me greatly to prepare properly. I'd like to add my experience as well to help give back. I did not keep as detailed notes as some who have gone before, but I will do my best! I also know Roofstock reps come through these forums every now and then, so hopefully it will help them improve their service. Overall, there were no significant bumps in the road, bait-and-switches or any other mega-surprises, so I'd say it went pretty smoothly for an internet purchase of an out-of-state house that I had never actually seen.

THE HOUSE

2-bed 2-bath 1157 sq ft. townhouse in Memphis, TN

Rehab needs:  dated interior, old roof, stairs to attic need to be replaced, shabby landscape, weathered siding, about 2 years left on HVAC

Tenant:  on a 2-yr lease, ledger showed they had paid on-time every time for a little over a year.

This is my 3rd investment property (my 2nd LTR along with 1 STR), and my first out-of-state.

THE NUMBERS

Asking Price:  85,000

Sale Price:  83,800

Rent:  $850

PM:  8%

Conventional financing 25% down @ 4.75%

After I ran my numbers, I don't know if I considered this a really good deal, or a really good deal...for Roofstock. Either way, almost nothing on Roofstock fits my numbers criteria, so the fact that this one did, and from what I could tell on Google Maps was in a decent part of Memphis, I bid on it. My numbers would have still been fine if I had gone higher, but I wasn't dying to have this property so I came in a little under the ask price. I was surprised when I received notice that my offer had been accepted.

THE PROCESS

If I'm being fair and honest, working with the Roofstock representative was cumbersome and a bit annoying. I feel the reason this deal got done in the end was my mortgage company did a lot of legwork for me and kept everyone else moving along. The fact that I thought I may be partially insane for buying an out-of-state property off the internet that I had never seen first-hand may have caused my annoyance threshold to be lower than normal, but here are a couple of reasons why I have lukewarm memories about working with the Roofstock rep:

  • Immediately after your purchase goes through on the website, it asks you to fill out basic questions like what your plans are for insurance, funding, and property management. When I received a call from my rep, she asked me these questions all over again. Considering this was my first interaction with her, it was disconcerting that she was not informed. Where did my previous answers go? Was she supposed to have read them before contacting me? Does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing? Is this how the entire process is going to go? This whole thing is going to crash and burn, isn't it?!?!?
  • Later on, I received further correspondence from her saying that she was going to link me with some insurance companies so I could get a quote (or something like that). The problem is that in the questionnaire, I said that I would be using my own insurance rep, and then I told her again on the phone when she called and asked me the question for the second time as well. Yet, right after that, she tells me she will get me the insurance referrals I asked for. Huh? Similarly, in the questionnaire, I said that I didn't need a lending referral and I was going to stick with the PM that was already attached to the property...yet, she kept asking me these things or forgetting what I had told her--inconsequential in the end, but annoying and unsettling. 

Pleasant/Unpleasant Surprises

  • Pleasant Surprise: It turns out the roof that I thought would eventually need to be replaced had actually already been replaced.
  • Unpleasant Surprise: The listing said there was not an HOA. It turned out there is an HOA which affects my monthly bottom line. I brought this up to Roofstock who informed me in their generic legalese that they don't guarantee the information on the website and that the buyer must do their own diligence. A convenient catch-all that protects them from anything--how great for them. I don't think I was wrong to expect them to have correct something as basic as "Is there an HOA?" The response was off-putting but not a deal-breaker considering the new roof was a big money-saver.

The Closing and Onward

  • The Closing was arranged by the mortgage company via a mobile notary. All went smoothly, and I ended up closing in the middle of August, about 25 days from when my offer was accepted.
  • A few weeks after closing, I received a T-shirt in the mail from Roofstock thanking me for my $83000 purchase. The T-shirt was more likely to fit my 11-year old niece than a grown man, so I will be sure to send those middle-school real estate investors Roofstock's way.
  • The property management has been fine--a little underwhelming--but that has nothing to do with Roofstock. I have been paid on-time for the 3 months since I closed, so that is clearly the most important part.
  • In early November 2018, I made a trip to Memphis to "touch" the property and make sure it existed. (It does.) I was beyond relieved to find that my neighborhood research online aligned with what I saw in-person.
  • I used the Roofstock portal throughout my purchase to reference the diligence vault materials, yet since the purchase, I have not been able to figure out how to access it again. I hope it wasn't deleted.

Of the Roofstock case studies I've seen on BP, mine would definitely be categorized as a net-positive experience. I've seen some other ones that I am relieved that the troubles they had did not happen to me, and almost dissuaded me enough to not pull the trigger on this purchase. It seems sometimes the troubles are caused by the buyer's misunderstanding of what Roofstock is (a marketplace) and what it isn't (a turnkey company), but sometimes they are things that seem to be no fault of the buyer.

I probably left out a lot of useful information, so if I did, whoops. If anyone has any questions about my experience with this purchase, or if I can help you while you are deciding, please let me know.

The same thing happened to me regarding the HOA, and even the seller didn't initially disclose it. They were an institutional investment company and probably didn't even know.

I caught it during the appraisal from the bank. In my case I used that as the out and I pulled out of the deal, returning my EMD.

Originally posted by @Leah C.:

Hi all, just curious to gain some insight from those investors who know Cincinnati well. We are looking to buy our first rental property - a SFR - for around $100k. We would like a B neighborhood and are looking at 3/1 or 3/2 homes in decent school districts. When we visited Cincinnati a few months ago we drove a lot of the neighborhoods and were narrowing in on Delhi (oak hills school district), Springdale and Forest Park. It seems like the schools in Springdale and Forest Park aren't as good as Delhi. We were also looking at Fairfield and Deer Park, but those areas might be a little more expensive. Does anyone have experience with these neighborhoods? Would these neighborhoods be considered B or C rated? Any other insights?

Thanks!

You shouldn't have a problem finding a SFH for 100k in those areas. Even Deer Park which is a better area. We bought a house there for well under 100k. I'd suggest you get in touch with local wholesalers and Realtors and let them know your criteria, you shouldn't have trouble getting those leads.

@Berish Edelman Welcome to the club! The forums are full of knowledge and advice. Nothing like actually getting out there and doing the deals. That's the best education. Appraisers and Banks means alot of waiting and alot of absurdities so you are in the right place ;)

What type of properties are you looking for? 

Post: Roofstock Case Study

Heshel MangelPosted
  • Posts 208
  • Votes 90

This is what makes it hardest to pull the trigger on Roofstock. Whilst it may make money for the buyer in the end, knowing that the actual value of the property based on comps and market is much lower makes it difficlut for me to pick it up. They are able to inflate the price because they know an investor will buy it above market value. 

@Account Closed Thanks for the input. I always say, that in the BRRR process, the refinance part is the least spoke about and hardest to actually get done. What would happen if there aren't enough comps to create a value? How does an appraiser determine the value?

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That's the sound of my brain trying to make sense of those numbers.

I don't mean the ROI, I mean the total of $7875 invested after the dust settles.

Are you getting a zero down loan twice?

That's the only way I could make the numbers come to what you came to.

I've been all cash so far and am entertaining the idea of using leverage.

LOL. Do I have some reading to do?

The goal in fact is to have $0000 invested after the dust settles. I would buy the property using cash. Immediately roll into a loan that would cover 90% of the purchase and rehab costs (so I am left with only 10% in the deal). Afterwards, at refinancing I am able to pull out the remaining cash I have invested because I've forced appreciation through the rehab. 

If you are asking me, leverage is definitely the way to go and is what makes REI so much more powerful than all other forms of investments.

Originally posted by @Priya Thomas:

How did you come up with 60K repair cost? is it proforma or quote from a GC? Seems like a larger rehab and if it is your first time, a lot of things can go wrong.

Property Tax seems low

is it a C or D class property? I am guessing D?

Insurance could be anywhere from 1200 to 1400 for this property, again guessing based on my knowledge on owing several properties in and around Cinci. You should get a quote. These small things can eat significant cashflow.

Expect a lot of things can go wrong and account for those unexpected things.

Estimate from 2 contractors. 50k was the estimate I bumped it up to 60. 

Taxes was 2400 this past year so I bumped it up a bit to 2700. 

Insurance I didn't get a real quote yet, that is an estimate based on quotes I've gotten from other properties. 

I've tried to calculate for the mid range of comps for ARV and used the lower range for what I can expect for rents.

Cincinnati 4-plex that needs a good amount of rehab work. Bones and structure are solid but electrical and heating systems have been ransacked and vandalized during vacancy. Separate meters for utilities. 

View report

*This link comes directly from our calculators, based on information input by the member who posted.