Unsuccessful success story

25 Replies

What's going on BP! So I listened to the Lance Wakefield podcast yesterday and I mean it is truly inspiring. If you have listened to it you know what I am talking about and if you haven't I think you should check it out. 

Now, I have literally done just about everything I have read and heard when it comes to starting out. Calling bandit signs, stopping at job sites, social meadia messaging, craigslist ads, offer wholesalers to drive to locations to take pictures, stop by current flips and say "if you ever need a hand doing some work let me know." etc... You name it! If I have read it or heard of it working for someone else I have tried it. I have even gone as far to find a deal, negotiate and bring another local wholesaler into the deal with me so I can learn the process and that person even bailed on me. 

Basically what I am saying is if someone said they tried it and it worked, then I tried it as well. I drive for dollars (due to budgets), cold call FSBO, I attend CFRI and events like that. I am a hands on learning, there is only so much I can do with knowledge from books, podcasts and forums. That is why I stop by job sites and try to reach out to local individuals because I like tangible things.

Everytime I think about throwing the towel in I hear another story, like Lance's, that inspires me to continue the process because I truly do believe in it. I know all  it could take is that 1 deal to net a good amount of cash or meeting the right person to take me under their wing, to then really hit the ground running. 

I am Ex Military and a family man and those 2 things alone keep me striving to do better. I'm not really asking for anything but more or less reaching out to the BP family to get any additional advice or a different view point on things. I am in the Orlando, FL area as well if that helps.

Thanks again BP for keeping the spirit alive!

You are in one of the hottest markets in the nation I would say. I hear your story A LOT from others in the central FL area. I have a student that is in a hot market in PA we have had many discussions like the above. She was doing everything she was told. I was frustrated as the coach, she was feeling burnt out and frustrated as the student. But we just kept plugging along.  Months and months of frustration- but still consistent marketing- she got her first flip deal : ) From what? Of all things... a marketing flyer in a discount grocery store.  We try to market in areas where we know people who are trying to save every penny go.   So now.. she has her first flip. And I tell you this story to let you  know that you are not alone. This is the craziest I have seen the market in 10 years. Very competitive, but there are deals out there and I encourage you to keep plugging away at it and getting creative with marketing (this doesn't necessarily mean expensive-- just creative- put yourself in the sellers shoes).  Also don't be afraid to venture a tad bit outside of your area. Pick the hottest zip code.. and maybe explore the markets 30 min or so outside of that zipcode. Because these hot zipcodes become too expensive and people start moving out further to find affordable housing.  In my market I organize the local meetup group so sometimes people reach out to me to say: I am looking to start flipping and if you find any houses in X zipcode, call me.  And my response is always: you and every other investor in the area as everyone is working that same "hot" zipcode. Don't be afraid to explore a little. And don't give up :) 1st deal is always the hardest. 

Just curious, why did the local wholesaler bail on you?  I'm in Orlando and most of my clients are dying for deals right now.  I would think if you found a deal, a wholesaler would be all over it.

@Erin Wysocki If I knew I would have tried to resolve it hahaha Not really sure. I found the property, got all the details. It was an off market short sale so I knew this wholesaler and he is awesome at short sales. So I was like I got this deal I could use your help because its a short sale, want to check it out and make something happen. He was all for it, I wrote up a contract and its been 5 days now and no response. 

@April Crossley LAZY GIRL REI !!!! How's everything going? I know other wholesalers in the market doing tons of mailing and getting deals. That is why I reached out to them, told them if they need a guy to drive to a property and take pictures, get a rehab estimate and things like that, I'm all for it. The market is flooded and I understand that. That's why instead of trying to compete with 100's of wholesalers I am trying to just get my foot in the door with a few of the ones I know are doing business by providing my time. Same with house flippers who may need an extra hand doing some demo or landscaping or whatever it may be. Those options have yielding me a 0% return. I'm not really sure what the next step it honestly.

forget about wholesaling its a dead end... especially in hot markets. what is it you really want to do.. is it get in the real estate industry.. then get in the real estate industry.. get a license go work on a top producers team and get PAID to learn .. don't Pay to learn... then use those skills and go into whatever part of the RE industry that interest you.. the top wholesalers I have worked with in Orlando are all licensed.. not to mention wholesaling the way these so called coachs teach is totally illegal in FLA.

This post has been removed.

Oops to funny I see UR already an agent.. well then in a hot Market there is only one thing you should be doing and that is going for listings.. listings are money in the bank.. why are you even trying to flip houses.. seems like a lot of work with no reward... just go out and get a new listing a week and all will be well in the world..

@Matthew Rollo @Jay Hinrichs has a great point with listings in hand you have the world by the kahones. Everyone and their brother wants "in" this business yet too few have what it takes to stick it out. It's good you've tried multiple things to get a taste of what it is like but you are all over the map with no true direction. You've shown you are willing to work now it's time to do so intelligently. "Listings", off market properties is what everyone is looking for but only hustlers will uncover them and have investors begging for them. Most in your position try little bits of everything then burn out before they ever truly get started. rather than picking one arena and mastering it. Being former Military (thank you for your service) you understand Discipline, that is exactly what is required here along with laser focus like a sniper. As an agent you already have a leg up on most of the so called "wholesalers" in our market. Go find your own listings instead of calling bandit signs you should be putting them out. Target an area and go knock on doors, uncover those hidden gems then let everyone know you have them; build your own buyers list. Do what most wont do, HUSTLE. By now you should be aware, if you have a "pocket listing" investors and everyone else will be on you like "white on rice" as the saying goes, of course, provided the numbers are actually sound. Do you know what a good deal is? Do you know how to calculate ROI? Hone your skills run numbers, wholesalers, realtors, and most others playing in this pond have no clue how to do so. What we do is not hard, but it does take consistency as @April Crossley mentioned and focus on one thing. What will that one thing be for you?  

@Sam Ally  It makes sense, it really does. I would love to hone in on one direction instead of being all over the map. Once I can figure out which direction that is, believe me, the focus will be ridiculous. Not one thing is working so that is why I tend to be going different directions. 

We must do & act with purpose & intention.  What we do requires doing multiple things to make a "whole" so what you must do my man is decide what area you want to focus in and master the skills and techniques to do so.  

I think what's going on is that the correct deal hasn't landed in your lap yet. 99.99% (yes, 1/1,000) deals in central Florida are NOT worth getting into in my opinion. You see a duplex in Orlando for sale for $125,000. You know you could negotiate it down to $115,000. You know that if you wanted to sell it a year later....the highest offer you'd get would be $110,000.

Properties like these rampantly exist in Orlando where we know the property simply isn't worth as much as  what they say. If anything, you've probably just been doing a good job being selective about getting your hands on a great deal. Now the downside is that should you encounter a great deal, there's going to be 3-5 other people offering on it. Take my advice and bid a solid offer (assuming the numbers make sense) when it does happen. There's no reason to rob yourself of the pleasure of having a real winner on your first deal.

My second piece of advice is to look at the surroundig smaller cities around Orlando. 

@Jason Chen That does make sense. I mean I evaluate deals every day, like I'm sure everyone does, and I pass on them. The deals I have wholesaled were all within and hour from receiving executed contract. The thing is I know people are closing deals in the area because as I drive for dollars I see them being renovated. Maybe they are just needle in a haystack type of deals. Maybe this is a test from the real estate Gods and the next deal I find will net me 50k or more hahaha who knows! I also get other peoples wholesale deals and I look at them like... do they really find buyers for these? 

Originally posted by @Matthew Rollo :

@Jason Chen That does make sense. I mean I evaluate deals every day, like I'm sure everyone does, and I pass on them. The deals I have wholesaled were all within and hour from receiving executed contract. The thing is I know people are closing deals in the area because as I drive for dollars I see them being renovated. Maybe they are just needle in a haystack type of deals. Maybe this is a test from the real estate Gods and the next deal I find will net me 50k or more hahaha who knows! I also get other peoples wholesale deals and I look at them like... do they really find buyers for these? 

 They are needle in the haystacks, but those needle in the haystack deals are exactly what people need.

I don't advise getting into marginal deals unless the investor owns a pretty large portfolio already, and even then, theres still no reason to get into marginal deals.

Honestly, I see that about half the deals posted here aren't very good. I often see myself saying "wait a minute...this deal isn't even good". 

As far as your question goes for "do they find buyers for these"? My theory is that anytime someone lists their prices at an obviously above-average price point, theres always that 1 or 2% chance that a complete dummy will fall for it, and that 1-2% chance alone is worth it to most people for listing their stuff at a high price.

I'm not like that. I want to buy it for cheap, so that not only did I get it at a superior price to my competitors, but SHOULD I decide to sell, I am pretty much guaranteed to come out ahead because I know a lot of people will be lowballing on my stuff. I think the original poster might be doing nothing wrong at all, and in fact might be doing a good job at avoiding landmines.

Also, just to add, some of the shallowest and fakest and dumbest people I've ever met were from Orlando Florida. Some homeless people I've chatted with have said that Orlando is a very superficial place. 

Maybe you should try making lowball offers on some properties to get the ball rolling. Don't believe the market and everyone's inflated opinion of what prices the market "should dictate". Also, I vote that you look at the surrounding areas, and maybe revisit Orlando itself after you've made some money.

@Jason Chen hahahah I am not disagreeing with you one bit. I am not a native of Orlando or even Florida for that matter. I may have to go with the majority here and explore outside of the city limits. I have been trying to stay close to home, like most people when starting out, to cut costs and things of that nature. I have slowly been looking into other markets because Orlando is a retail market right now. Time now to put it in gear and move on. 

This post has been removed.

I can't disagree with @Sam Ally because like I said, I see job sites and deals coming and going all the time. People are still doing business. I agree that Off Market is the way to go. I also believe that "hustle" or "working hard" just doesn't cut it either. @Jason Chen Those 2 things are great, don't get me wrong, but if you are hustling and working hard in a direction that isn't showing results, can you really feel accomplishment with it? Is it what you know or is it who you know?  It's like the saying, practice makes perfect...no it doesn't, not if your practicing wrong. 

The reason the big time players are able to stay consistent, in my opinion, is because the have the funds to test different methods. In the case with a newbie or rookie investor, doesn't mean they don't have the hustle and work ethic to become a big time player. It means that their margin of error has to be miniscule. They may only have enough to budget for 6 months of direct mail or marketing and if one mistake happens, they could be out of the game just like that. Big players have a bigger margin of mistake then the new guy. 

Big time players were once small time. You can use money as an excuse or a motivator, Yes it requires capital to start any business so if you have to work another gig to pay to fund your dream thats what you have to do.  And yes, perfect practice makes perfect. Starting your business like investing in R/E is difficult to do when under-capitalized. 

Off market is WHERE ITS AT

just LOL if youre still looking at MLS listings in 2017

*goes back to looking at MLS listings online*

@Matthew Rollo

You're already an agent so work harder at that to get your stacks. I noticed you were low on capital. You need capital if you want to compete in a hot market. Yes you could try door-knocking if you have tons of time to burn and people skills, but the right approach is to *not* start in a hot-market. Hot market is where you go for listings to get your sweet commish. If you want to wholesale, go 30 minute drive away and target the sub-markets. It's hard to find distressed sellers in hot markets because they often list their beat up homes for 90% ARV that require 20-30% rehab to fix. Most aren't deals. Also, you're competing against professionals that drop 10k+ a month on their direct mail in these 'hot markets'. Starting wholesaling in a hot market is like playing a video game on highest difficulty, ESPECIALLY when you don't have the capital.

So bust your balls at your primary and get some more listings or even some rental placements that you can flow into listings or buyers in the future. Get your primary pipe going. You'll need some capital to do marketing correctly. Don't do the sleezy "no money down wholesaling" that breaks laws

Hi South Fl is a hit market and there's plenty of deals.. you will have to think positive and figure out what works for..if listed properties don't work out try something.. 

@Matthew Rollo how do you know that what you are doing "is not working?" I mean, what is the standard that you are using? Are you using the standard that "..wholesaling is the easiest way to get into REI. It's easy, just find a property put it under contract, add 10K, sell it to rehabber, easy peasy!!" Where am I going with this, it seems like you have a timetable for your success & since "nothing has happened" you must be doing something wrong. How many connections have you made? How often do you follow up, just to stay in touch. As a realtor you should be doing your day job, while learning the REI game for your market. It took me 10 mos to get my first deal, and I split a 35K assignment fee. That deal led me directly into my second deal. So I had done 2 deals in a span of 11 mos. But if I wouldn't have put in the work, network, build my buyers list, build my website, send out mailings, place bandit signs, D4$, attend local REI meetings, I wouldn't of done my first deal. I met the buyer of my first deal at my very first REI meeting. The deal I did with him didn't materialize until 5 months later.

Free eBook from BiggerPockets!

Ultimate Beginner's Guide Book Cover

Join BiggerPockets and get The Ultimate Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing for FREE - read by more than 100,000 people - AND get exclusive real estate investing tips, tricks and techniques delivered straight to your inbox twice weekly!

  • Actionable advice for getting started,
  • Discover the 10 Most Lucrative Real Estate Niches,
  • Learn how to get started with or without money,
  • Explore Real-Life Strategies for Building Wealth,
  • And a LOT more.

Lock We hate spam just as much as you

Get the Ultimate Beginner's Guide

Sign up today to receive the popular eBook for free!