Hey everyone! So I'm just starting out in REI (and by just starting out, I mean I'm looking for my first deal). I'm focusing on buy and hold multifamily investing. I've heard great things about getting a mentor to really excel in investing. I have a mentor in mind who does a lot of business in my local market (Baltimore MD); the person mainly focuses on buy and hold and multifamily investing and has had great success. Should I start out with a mentor? Or should I do a few deals on my own before I hire a mentor? What should I look for in a mentor? Anyone have any experience with mentors, good or bad? Any feedback, success or non-success stories, and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

As A major "do it yourself" kind of person I too am interested in feedback on this topic. My wife has spent money on mentors for stock trading. As someone who is always analyzing the ROI, I am hesitant to hire a mentor but I am also struggling to find deals to invest in remotely.

If you have an opportunity to learn from a successful person, versus, learning from doing it on your own and making mistakes, take the successful person every time.  Either way you're paying for that knowledge.  The difference is, when you learn from making mistakes, the only knowledge you gain is how "not to do it".  When you learn from a successful person, you add how "to do it" to your knowledge as well...and I bet it will cost you less too.

A week ago, I met two ladies who wanted to buy kitchen cabinets from me (I  have a side business) we start talking and they told me they work with a mentor. 

I asked how it is going and they were all happy about it, learned a lot etc....

Then, one of them started pressuring the other to buy the kitchen cabinets, cause it was a great deal, however, I did not have the exact sizes she was looking for ( I work with smaller inventory since it is a side business)  What I learned was she was waaay over budget.

I was like so  you have mentor, you pay money and you are still over budget !!!

that does not make sense to me

So moral of the story, pick the right mentor, pick one that he/she follows your progress, and be with you on your first house. Otherwise buy a cheap house and make your own mistakes. 

You dont need to pay money to lose money.

@Chinyere Orie - I think BP is usually opposed to paid mentorship. However, you can really cut your learning curve. Like if I worked with someone for 1 hour a week for 90 days I would probably save them years of learning. So time is money. Mentoring people for free is easy if they just have a text question every so often but many want so much more. The point is, don't be afraid to pay for mentors. I didn't and my first deals were very difficult. I learned, I got through it, but someone experienced probably could have saved me a whole lot of time and money and the ROI almost certainly would have been there.

I think you should trust your gut on this one. I will give you my take. I have met a lot of successful investors who began by reading the books and diving right in and acquiring property. I don't know a ton who told me they paid a mentor early on. Who knows, maybe because those folks are now on yachts in Key West and I'm not!

I think the financial component of a paid mentorship is what comes off disingenuous. I have mentors in my Baltimore network who I look up to, who also rely on me for things - so they benefit in return out of what I like to call social currency, not financial currency.

I think organic, non-transactional relationships are more fun in terms of growth - I am no expert here but am hoping this helps

I am glad someone mentioned this. Because I was thinking the same thing even though I know that BP doesnt allow mentorship. 

I know that it can help push pass some barriers and some obstacles, and it would seem easier to do so. so I see why BP doesnt want us to use it. But if I get a chance I would like to shadow someone in the works. I mean just watch thim do their thing but allow me to follow and see what they are doing. Thats the kind of experience i would like to do. 

Originally posted by @Ozzy Sirimsi :

A week ago, I met two ladies who wanted to buy kitchen cabinets from me (I  have a side business) we start talking and they told me they work with a mentor. 

I asked how it is going and they were all happy about it, learned a lot etc....

Then, one of them started pressuring the other to buy the kitchen cabinets, cause it was a great deal, however, I did not have the exact sizes she was looking for ( I work with smaller inventory since it is a side business)  What I learned was she was waaay over budget.

I was like so  you have mentor, you pay money and you are still over budget !!!

that does not make sense to me

So moral of the story, pick the right mentor, pick one that he/she follows your progress, and be with you on your first house. Otherwise buy a cheap house and make your own mistakes. 

You dont need to pay money to lose money.

 The moral of the story may also be, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it".  In this case the water is the deal (including the budget).  You can teach someone something, have them all excited about it, and when it comes time for them to follow through, they let emotions get the better of them, and the rest,...is very expensive.

@Chinyere Orie I think @Joe Villeneuve nailed it. Theres 3 ways.  

1. You can hire someone to invest for you. Issue with this, you have no control, you don't really learn much and you split the profits (this would be a partnership)

2. You can learn yourself. While this might be the most attractive method to say you did, you will likely spend more money in the long run, making mistakes than actually just learning the right information at the right time,

3. Getting a paid mentor. You will have their expert guidance and be able to have them tell you exactly what the right thing to do in the right time is. Its an up front cost and hard to calculate the ROI, but it will help.

One way to calculate the ROI is to determine, what you will make from your first investment property, if you pay for this mentor to help you. Compare the cash flow you might make to the cost of the mentorship. At what point would it be a break even?

Originally posted by @Sam L. :

I think you should trust your gut on this one. I will give you my take. I have met a lot of successful investors who began by reading the books and diving right in and acquiring property. I don't know a ton who told me they paid a mentor early on. Who knows, maybe because those folks are now on yachts in Key West and I'm not!

I think the financial component of a paid mentorship is what comes off disingenuous. I have mentors in my Baltimore network who I look up to, who also rely on me for things - so they benefit in return out of what I like to call social currency, not financial currency.

I think organic, non-transactional relationships are more fun in terms of growth - I am no expert here but am hoping this helps

 If you were going in for surgery (pick the reason), would you want your surgeon to have their knowledge come mainly (if not exclusively) from the internet, ir would you feel better if they were trained by successful, experienced people?

So, if you were going to be responsible for making all the decisions for the movement of millions and millions of dollars over time, how would you like to learn?

@Joe Villeneuve

Agreed, but I don’t think you have to pay someone to learn how to invest successfully, especially in your local market, and especially if you are just starting out

Originally posted by @Sam L. :

@Joe Villeneuve

Agreed, but I don’t think you have to pay someone to learn how to invest successfully, especially in your local market, and especially if you are just starting out

True. My first mentor was a buddy of mine that I played ball with. He was a REA turned REB that was also a REI. He was great, but you get what you pay for. If he wasn't my friend, I don't think he would have devoted as much time as he did with me at the start.

The way it should be done is probably these steps to learning:

1 - Find a local mentor that is willing to answer questions, and teach you the basics.  Stay with them until they grow tired (you'll know when), and/or you are ready to go onto step #2.

2 - Pay for it. At this point you need advanced training, or you will never be an advanced REI...even though you will think you are if you don't do this step. Ever hear the expression, "you don't know what you don't know"?

3 - Always network for learning (and BP is in my opinion the #1 place to network for knowledge).  This isn't necessarily step #3 in an order as much as it is a constant,...gradually increasing in the complexity of what you are learning, and can understand.

I believe that all three are critical, adn leaving ANY one of the three out will stunt your growth...and you won't realize it...see step #2.

I've found that you pay for education one way or another. I've personally lost money on a deal, and it was an expensive learning experience. I've also had mentors in my life, some paid and some not. Does paying a mentor help you avoid costly mistakes, give you the courage to take action and accelerate the process of getting to your end goal? If the answer is yes, I would then argue that it is a good investment in yourself. Ultimately it comes down to what's best for you personally. I know some people would never pay for mentorship and others find value in it. As pointed out above, the next important step would be choosing the right mentor. I would interview them and ask them deal specific and market specific questions, as well as what are they currently working on so you can vet the validity of their direction. 

I'd never hire a mentor- I'd partner with someone with more experience than me. You have to bring something to the table, but it doesn't have to be cash or experience, it could just be energy. I know lots of mid-level professional investors who would love to have a newbie bring energy, time and effort to the table in exchange for experience and maybe a small split on deals that they work.

Most paid mentorships are designed to get you hooked in and continue paying them- if you get what you need relatively quickly and don't need a mentor any longer, then the mentor has just worked themselves out of a paycheck. The goal is to keep you needing more- that doesn't serve your best interests. 

Best of luck!

@Joe Villeneuve

I kinda disagree on the meaning of mentor I guess.

I would only pay somebody if they do handholding on the first job at least.

I would want my mentor to look at my deal, look at my reno numbers, direct me right way etc...

If a mentor just giving me general idea, generic real estate information, not be with me during my first deal at least, I would not pay or get a mentor.

@Ozzy Sirimsi @Corby Goade

I guess you just proved what I said above about "not knowing what you don't know".  You are both correct in what you said as far as it being applied to mentors in general.  Mentorship should go well beyond what either of you mentioned, which is why I wrote the 3 steps to learning, and included the paid mentor where I did..and why included it at all.

@Joe Villeneuve

In theory I agree with your 3 steps.

In reality, it is hard to find a mentor that put that much time for each newbie.

Ladies I met, literally followed your steps.

1- They learned the basics

2- They paid for the mentor

but still over budgeted.

If I am paying somebody, I should not be over budgeting up to a level that I feel that you cannot even buy cabinets which is an important item.

That is why I am not found of mentors in general.

What they provide is it NOT enough and what newbie paying for them not enough to cover their time.

May be you know mentors who does more, I dont know any.

100% agree with @Joe Villeneuve . You don't know what you don't know, and if you don't know that you don't know it how do you know what questions you ask? That sentence made sense right (Haha). But seriously, I'm not saying you have to have a mentor but a good mentor, in my opinion, is invaluable. Typically you pay for value. Unfortunately there are a lot of self proclaimed Gurus out there that charge a ton and bring little to no value and give Mentorship a bad name. That doesn't mean that paid Mentorship is bad, it means there are bad players. I have no doubt with all the free resources available someone can figure it out on their own but they're probably going to skin their knees along the way. Plus some people learn better by working with someone. They gain confidence by having their numbers checked, someone to walk them through contracts etc. Again it's not that one is right or wrong, it's what is the best fit for you? I paid a mentor several years ago when I started a business (outside of REI). Some people would be shocked at the amount I paid but to me it was worth it because he knew things I didn't and I got results significantly quicker than relying on just myself. I paid for speed and got a great ROI.

@Chinyere Orie  
I never paid for a mentor, but I did get a ton of education attending REI meetups and networking. It's amazing how much you can learn in these types of meetups. I met a few investors who I considered mentors, but I didn't pay them. I just befriended them. But try to make it a 2-way street, offer some value yourself. For example, I'm a data geek so I helped them out by sharing with them real estate data that I was collecting at the time. Hope this helps!

Originally posted by @Ozzy Sirimsi :

@Joe Villeneuve

In theory I agree with your 3 steps.

In reality, it is hard to find a mentor that put that much time for each newbie.

Ladies I met, literally followed your steps.

1- They learned the basics

2- They paid for the mentor

but still over budgeted.

If I am paying somebody, I should not be over budgeting up to a level that I feel that you cannot even buy cabinets which is an important item.

That is why I am not found of mentors in general.

What they provide is it NOT enough and what newbie paying for them not enough to cover their time.

May be you know mentors who does more, I dont know any.

If you look at my three steps closely, you will see that the step I put the paid mentor in, is NOT a place where a newbie would be.

A paid mentor is like an investment.... just like college....and just like other investments it really depends on WHO you pick, how good they are, the actual cost and most importantly what YOU get out of it.

Some mentors will be worth every penny...... other will be a total scam....... others will be a waster of time and $$ because the person doesn't actually utilize what they are being taught, so its not the fault of the mentor

I don't think I would ever pay a mentor....... I would LOVE to partner with someone more experienced and do everything I can to contribute...... but I prefer to work with people that have some "skin" in the game.......some stronger vested interest in ALL of us profiting ..... rather than being a paid consultant that makes $$ no matter what happens to me.

Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve :

If you have an opportunity to learn from a successful person, versus, learning from doing it on your own and making mistakes, take the successful person every time.  Either way you're paying for that knowledge.  The difference is, when you learn from making mistakes, the only knowledge you gain is how "not to do it".  When you learn from a successful person, you add how "to do it" to your knowledge as well...and I bet it will cost you less too.

Agreed! I'm leaning toward paying for the mentor because I want to learn more than just what not to do. Plus, given the type of business REI is and the risk that goes into it, I do think that it's important to have someone with knowledge, experience, and connections to learn from. To me, it seems easier to just pay for the cost up front and learn what to do rather than go at it alone and pay even more through mistakes, etc. Thanks!

Originally posted by @Sam L. :

I think you should trust your gut on this one. I will give you my take. I have met a lot of successful investors who began by reading the books and diving right in and acquiring property. I don't know a ton who told me they paid a mentor early on. Who knows, maybe because those folks are now on yachts in Key West and I'm not!

I think the financial component of a paid mentorship is what comes off disingenuous. I have mentors in my Baltimore network who I look up to, who also rely on me for things - so they benefit in return out of what I like to call social currency, not financial currency.

I think organic, non-transactional relationships are more fun in terms of growth - I am no expert here but am hoping this helps

Make sense.  For me, I know they I'll need them for more than just a question here and there.  In addition to getting input on deals I'm pursuing, I also plan to ask for references for lenders, contractors, etc. and things that go beyond just a quick question every now and then.  What type of things do your mentors rely on you for in exchange for their guidance?  I'm not sure how I can provide value in return for someone's expert advice.

Originally posted by @Trent Ellingford :

100% agree with @Joe Villeneuve . You don't know what you don't know, and if you don't know that you don't know it how do you know what questions you ask? That sentence made sense right (Haha). But seriously, I'm not saying you have to have a mentor but a good mentor, in my opinion, is invaluable. Typically you pay for value. Unfortunately there are a lot of self proclaimed Gurus out there that charge a ton and bring little to no value and give Mentorship a bad name. That doesn't mean that paid Mentorship is bad, it means there are bad players. I have no doubt with all the free resources available someone can figure it out on their own but they're probably going to skin their knees along the way. Plus some people learn better by working with someone. They gain confidence by having their numbers checked, someone to walk them through contracts etc. Again it's not that one is right or wrong, it's what is the best fit for you? I paid a mentor several years ago when I started a business (outside of REI). Some people would be shocked at the amount I paid but to me it was worth it because he knew things I didn't and I got results significantly quicker than relying on just myself. I paid for speed and got a great ROI.

I agree 100%. The amount of money is not a huge deal to me as long as they provide value. I have a feeling that I'll get a good ROI with the mentor I'm considering, which is most important to me. Also, I feel like that most successful RE investors have, at some point, invested in either a mentor, a coach, a class, or someone/something along those lines to help take their business to the next level.

Originally posted by @Chinyere Orie :

Originally posted by @Trent Ellingford:

100% agree with @Joe Villeneuve. You don't know what you don't know, and if you don't know that you don't know it how do you know what questions you ask? That sentence made sense right (Haha). But seriously, I'm not saying you have to have a mentor but a good mentor, in my opinion, is invaluable. Typically you pay for value. Unfortunately there are a lot of self proclaimed Gurus out there that charge a ton and bring little to no value and give Mentorship a bad name. That doesn't mean that paid Mentorship is bad, it means there are bad players. I have no doubt with all the free resources available someone can figure it out on their own but they're probably going to skin their knees along the way. Plus some people learn better by working with someone. They gain confidence by having their numbers checked, someone to walk them through contracts etc. Again it's not that one is right or wrong, it's what is the best fit for you? I paid a mentor several years ago when I started a business (outside of REI). Some people would be shocked at the amount I paid but to me it was worth it because he knew things I didn't and I got results significantly quicker than relying on just myself. I paid for speed and got a great ROI.

I agree 100%. The amount of money is not a huge deal to me as long as they provide value. I have a feeling that I'll get a good ROI with the mentor I'm considering, which is most important to me. Also, I feel like that most successful RE investors have, at some point, invested in either a mentor, a coach, a class, or someone/something along those lines to help take their business to the next level.

Knowledge is power. I've spent a lot of money on my REI education. Not all of it I use, but I got something from all of it. Mostly what I learned is that there are many ways to do REI, and a lot of is would not be considered to be standard REI...mostly due to a "lack of creativity or imagination". Sometimes it's just a lack of understanding, and letting emotions dictate our next step, which is a tendency to resist what we don't understand.

The more knowledge you have, the more power you have. The more power you have, the more problems you can turn into opportunities. It's all about that "box" those with that knowledge are told constantly they "think outside of". It's not their box we are talking about, it's the box of the observer. The more creative REI are the ones with the "biggest box".

So keep in mind then, the one thing in life there is no limits on, is the size of your box.