Has anyone done business with Four Peaks Capital?

29 Replies

@Ji Yang There are MHP fund operators who have proven track records and have been acquiring and oprating MHPs for many years. Although most such fund operators only deal with accredited investors directly, you may also be able to find some among the crowdfunding sites. Typically, the mobile home funds can achieve very attractive COC, a somewhat recession resistant business model, decent upside as well. Judging by their website, without speaking with them personally, it appears that Four Peaks does not have a long track record in the MHP space. Since they are advertising, I assume that they only deal with accredited or sophisticated investors, as well. If you are thinking of investing with Four Peaks, I recommend that you perform an extensive due diligence check on them. Also check our at least a few of the other MHP syndicators and fund operators to compare. That said, it is always great to be exposed to operators that others on the site may not have been exposed to. Good solid passive cash flow opportunities are not easy to find. Good luck with your investing and please share your experience if you decide to invest with them.

@David Calme, thanks for the advice. Any suggestion on MHP funds that have long proven track records? 

You're right that Four Peaks is probably very new. I couldn't find much information about them online besides their own blog posts and a few interviews with the founders, who were promoting MHP business and themselves. Any tips on how to do due diligence check on a fund like that? I'm new to this and trying to learn as much as possible. 

pretty basic website with no indication of what they do.. but I like it that the principals are on there with a bio.. you should be able to do some background on them.

its all about the team.. MHP is a mature space with many proven operators.

Although I find competition for what I call investment grade parks is quite keen.. so returns are more in the MF space.. when you venture out east from the west coast or look at low end parks returns are higher but management is quite intense.. as our dealing with some pretty scruffy tenant base.

@Ji Yang , I would vet an MHP fund much the same way that you would perform due diligence on sponsors in any other space.  Many of them use RE crowdfunding platforms to gain more exposure.  You can start by looking on the better more reputable crowdfunding.  Of course, you can always contact a prospective fund operator directly and ask them your own set of DD questions (ask for their track record, properties that the fund has acquired thus far, performance of the fund, past funds that have closed to investors and how they have performed, etc).  I will PM you a couple of funds operators that I am aware of who have a good record and have held up to the scrutiny of many investors more experienced than I.

There is a good thread on BP that has some tips about checking out a syndicated deal/sponsor.  It focuses more on one off multifamily deals, but is relevant to any asset class/investment structure.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/432/topics/503289-how-to-vet-syndicators

Best of luck. 

@Ji Yang I second what @David Calme said about vetting the operators of any fund. It's very important to perform your due diligence on the operators, the markets their operate it, ask for their past transactions, history of their track record. And definitely good to have other operators to compare against. Keep in mind, while the projected performance is very important it should not be the single driving factor in your decision. If you get a proven operator that offers sightly less, it may still be a good idea to stick with someone who's been around the block for a while. 

Also, I believe that in order to invest through a crowdfunding platform one will have to be accredited investor.

lastly, I can give you the name of a syndicator we have been dealing with for while. 

Best!

Well this company and the partners may need more due diligence before you invest.

Why?  How about their various addresses appear to be nothing but mail drop box and forwarding services. I have found address over the last couple of years in Ca, Co, Mi, Wy and NJ and Az.  None of them are addresses where they have partners or employees or parks.  Just mail forwarding services.  If you bite on investing they in the past and maybe now send you documents with an address in Wyoming.  Now Wyoming is interesting as it is a state that allows you to hide partners of an llc from the public.  Oops! If you google the Wyoming address it is an attorney's address who specializes in setting these companies up and is a mail forwarding service not a "real" office with staff, owners etc.

In the one investment document I read, your investment would be in a construction company with no assets and secured only by a UCC filing.   Any construction you ask? Not according to 1 management employee I came across.  May be 5 or 6 mobile homes which according to this person looked as if a 5th grader remodeled the home.

I inter company document I came across stated that only 1 park was profitable. Now how do they pay a 12% return if the majority of the parks are not profitable? That is a question to be pondered isn't it.

Experienced? Top 100 park owner in the country? They claim they own about 20 parks but a least 7 are owned by an investor and they just manage them. Well known in the MH Industry? Unknown.  They own old small parks, about 1,200 sites with vacancies galore. Plus management is not ownership.

I recently came across one of there web sites that had there address in Princeton, New Jersey.  I looked up the phone number posted on the site and it was the main number for Princeton University.  Maybe they own Princeton University too.  LOL

Best advice?   Investor beware…...

I've been on the BiggerPockets podcast twice:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/02/26...

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/biggerpoc...

... and am launching my next MHP investment fund late this month (October of '18).  (And - full disclosure - I will be using a mail forwarding address also and only occasionally actually hosting meetings at that location... it's like a 'WeWork' space, I generally work from home and my managers are on-site at the parks...)

To everyone's continued success, and due diligence,

-jl-

never heard of them, I would do some internet digging on them to get the scoop. Check out ripoffreport.com and reddit as well and look them up on the BBB as well. Google them and check the first 30 links, any garbage usually pops up in the top 30 links. . 

Hi everyone, I just came across this thread, and wanted to address a few items. I'm the founder of Park Place Communities (http://parkplacecommunities.com/) and Four Peaks Capital Partners (www.fourpeakspartners.com). I formed Park Place Communities in 2014, and we started purchasing communities in early 2015. Currently, we own and operate around 1,900 lots in 12 states, and headquartered in Phoenix, AZ (1176 E Warner Road Gilbert AZ). We have about 22 full-time W2 employees in the office, approximately 40 traveling construction folks -- and managers and maintenance W2 employees at each community we own and operate. Also, my business partner Mike Ayala has owned and operated mobile home communities since 2007. He also founded an HVAC company with 110 employees, and also ran several construction companies. We’ve worked together for about 2 years now, and he is focused on the operations side of the business.

There are many solid sponsors and operators in this asset class, some newer than us, and some older – and quite a bit of new money coming into this space (part of this is where we are in the market cycle, and other asset classes being overpriced like apartment buildings).

I’ve personally had several conversations with @Jefferson Lilly (and met him at a conference), and he knows the space well. Dave & Frank (also partnered with Ryan & Jamie Smith) have been acquiring and operating parks for a long time (I believe they go under MHC America). Dave & Frank also put on a great boot camp 4-5 times a year (https://www.mobilehomeuniversity.com/mobile-home-park-investing-books-and-courses/mobile-home-park-investors-boot-camp.php). The boot camp is great for anyone looking to become an operator in the space, although it’s also a good general overview over the course of a weekend (I believe it’s Friday Night to Sunday Night).

To address the @Marty Sellis comments – we were a virtual company up until about a year ago, with employees around the country. We had a Grandville, MI address which was a maildrop for several years, but now everything comes to Gilbert, AZ. All of our main entities (i.e. Park Place Communities, LLC etc.) are created in Wyoming (and the address is a registered agent). Ask any asset protection attorney, and they will recommend WY, NV or DE as best states to use. And you are incorrect about some of the states. I lived in CA for 20 years, and we had W2 employees in CO and NJ, where we do not own communities.

Also, we take much pride in the work that we do to renovate the homes. Here are a few examples: https://fourpeaks.box.com/s/heitpydgv3s6gtbiudszgtglhzn7gj29

Our park size is usually 40 spaces up to about 230 spaces. And yes, we’re focused on value-add and lower occupancy communities. And we have an ownership in all of the communities we operate, so that is incorrect information. Again, NJ is where one of our employees lived (when you have W2 employees, you must register the state they live in). And no, we don’t own Princeton University. Marty, feel free to reach out to me at any time. I don’t seem to know your name and would be great to get to know you. It sounds like you have a lot of experience in this space, and I'm always interested in learning more.

I think one takeaway is that this is a difficult asset class to own and operate, and just like @Jay Hinrichs mentioned, having a great team is essential! And due diligence is key with good tips from @Mike G. Good luck to everyone and always do your homework!

Andrew Lanoie

cc: 

@Ji Yang @Rachel H. @David Calme  

Originally posted by @Jefferson Lilly :

I've been on the BiggerPockets podcast twice:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/02/26...

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/biggerpoc...

... and am launching my next MHP investment fund late this month (October of '18).  (And - full disclosure - I will be using a mail forwarding address also and only occasionally actually hosting meetings at that location... it's like a 'WeWork' space, I generally work from home and my managers are on-site at the parks...)

To everyone's continued success, and due diligence,

-jl-

do you know the Taylors I think they are SF based I sold them one of my parks a decade ago.. it was in Vancouver WA.. 

Also did business with the Doughers of Orange county now you want to talk about the big boys Holy man. !!

@Andrew Lanoie

thanks for the shout out and props! Also thank you for the great description of your business and its history and inner workings. I speak for many on here that i value straight forward info and transparency. I'll PM you and we can chat further as i am in the MHP space as well. 

Originally posted by @Andrew Lanoie :

Hi @Mike G. Thank you, and sounds great, I'll send you a request, and happy to connect with you. 

Andrew


 I invested 50K into your fund. 

You stopped paying after just one payment, and there are no payments for Q2 of this year.

I emailed you and your team several times about it - but you dont respond. I do keep getting newsletters from you every week.

Your phone service always "takes a message" and no one calls back.

What are you doing with my and other investors' capital?

I urge everyone on BiggerPockets to take note of this scam and fraud Andrew Lanoie.

@Andrew Lanoie

My investment is under the name of my family. 

Delay in distributions is understandable, and is not as big a concern as your no response to our emails. It makes us concerned about the safety of our funds.

I can PM you the names and if its a legit response - I can update my view on the forum.

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