Advice for uncooperative seller

[Arthur Chou]

Hey all, wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to deal with an uncooperative seller.  Just had an offer accepted on my very first investment property and I'm already dealing with some issues I had not foreseen.  I've been trying to get in contact with the listing agent/seller to have a few contractors walkthrough the property for renovations but they're being uncooperative.  It's been really difficult to get a response from the listing agent/seller on they keep pushing back dates because they do not want to disturb the current tenant.  We've already completed the home inspection and they were already being difficult with us during the home inspection.  I guess I'm wondering, technically speaking, are the owners allowed to prevent us from walking through the property until closing?  Ideally, I wanted everything coordinated to start reno immediately after closing but right now they're making things difficult for me.  Also I really wanted an accurate estimate on renovations as early as possible by having the contractors walk through the property.  Any advice for a first time investor? 

[Amir Khan]

@Arthur Chou Has your option period expired? If not, give them a notice if seller/agent is unable to accommodate buyer's contractors for inspections/assessments by <DATE>, you will have to back out of the deal..

[Andrew Freed]

@Arthur Chou - At face value, it seems like they are hiding something. Make sure you get leases and signed estoppels prior to close. They might have non-paying or difficult tenants that they are trying to conceal. Having a potential eviction is okay as long as its built into the numbers. If found out post contract about an eviction, you could definitely use it as leverage for retrading since it is real costs to deal with that situation. 

[Russell Brazil]

Does your contract allow for an "inspection" or "inspectionS" plural?

[Paul De Luca]

Quote from @Arthur Chou:

Hey all, wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to deal with an uncooperative seller.  Just had an offer accepted on my very first investment property and I'm already dealing with some issues I had not foreseen.  I've been trying to get in contact with the listing agent/seller to have a few contractors walkthrough the property for renovations but they're being uncooperative.  It's been really difficult to get a response from the listing agent/seller on they keep pushing back dates because they do not want to disturb the current tenant.  We've already completed the home inspection and they were already being difficult with us during the home inspection.  I guess I'm wondering, technically speaking, are the owners allowed to prevent us from walking through the property until closing?  Ideally, I wanted everything coordinated to start reno immediately after closing but right now they're making things difficult for me.  Also I really wanted an accurate estimate on renovations as early as possible by having the contractors walk through the property.  Any advice for a first time investor? 

 It would have been best if you scheduled your contractors to come through during the inspection. That would have made it easier for the tenant. It's pretty normal for an owner to not want to annoy their tenant with a ton of showings/walkthroughs especially if the tenant is being difficult and complains about it. However I'm sure there is a time that would work for everyone to get in there to get estimates. It would be easier if there was a lockbox with keys to enter the property without the tenant being there but if the tenant is the only way to get access I could that not helping.

If you want to push the issue you could say "I'm not closing until I can get into the property to get estimates." I think that would get the seller's attention.

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Arthur Chou:

Hey all, wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to deal with an uncooperative seller.  Just had an offer accepted on my very first investment property and I'm already dealing with some issues I had not foreseen.  I've been trying to get in contact with the listing agent/seller to have a few contractors walkthrough the property for renovations but they're being uncooperative.  It's been really difficult to get a response from the listing agent/seller on they keep pushing back dates because they do not want to disturb the current tenant.  We've already completed the home inspection and they were already being difficult with us during the home inspection.  I guess I'm wondering, technically speaking, are the owners allowed to prevent us from walking through the property until closing?  Ideally, I wanted everything coordinated to start reno immediately after closing but right now they're making things difficult for me.  Also I really wanted an accurate estimate on renovations as early as possible by having the contractors walk through the property.  Any advice for a first time investor? 

Have you removed all contingencies from the sale and have confirmed financing is lined up? If not, I would be doing the same thing as the seller. There is no good that can come from having someone come visit the property multiple times if it is occupied with a tenant. It also could be the tenant, who is going to have to find a place to live and they are probably negative and are not cooperative for that reason.

[Patricia Steiner]

It doesn't sound like they're being difficult as much as you want to do something that isn't in keeping with the contract.  If your inspection period has ended, done.  They do NOT and really should not allow you to re-enter the property until the final walk just prior to closing.  And, they don't want to disturb the tenant for something that is not contractually required - as you may not close and the seller isn't risking the loss of a tenant for cause.  

The inspection period is the time you bring your contractors and inspectors in.  Once it's over, it's over - and you cannot revisit the property, not inspect further, and you've lost any contingency protection that comes with inspection findings.

Bottom line:  Have your contractors at the property one hour after your closing time.  When you leave the closing, call them from the parking lot to get to work.  That how you do it immediately.  

Congrats on your acquisition.  Get to closing and then rock on.

[Theresa Harris]

It sounds like it is a rental.  If the inspection period has passed and all the conditions are removed, then yes they can refuse you access. If you wanted contractors to come through, you should have had them do that at the same time as the inspection to minimize disruption to the current tenant/owner.  Have them all lined up to go in at closing.

I would also do a walk through the day before/morning of closing to inspect the property once it is vacant before money is transferred to make sure the tenants are out-just you and your realtor, not a bunch of contractors.

[Dan DiFilippo]

It likely depends on your market and the contract that you used.  My own market (and seemingly this forum) is full of people who have the same misconception that once you're out of what's commonly referred to as "the inspections period", that you are no longer permitted to make inspections of the property.  The contract we typically use does not state that explicitly though, and the reality is that you can still inspect up until day of closing.  Obviously, your contract may be different.

A good person to talk to would be an agent representing you.

[Eliott Elias]

Most sellers are going to be difficult, especially the good deals. In your contract, you should have a due diligence period where you are allowed to walk the property at your leisure. You can pursue further measures if you really wanted to, I recommend handling it before you do. 

[John Warren]

@Arthur Chou you have multiple issues going on here. You have a tenant in place, which means the tenant has rights here. You would need to be giving notice 48 hours in advance, and even then, there is a common courtesy element to this that you would want to use since tenants often have different work schedules or sleep schedules and have issues accommodating what you are proposing. 

As an agent, what you are looking at doing would be a nightmare if I was the listing agent. I would probably be reaching out to your agent telling him/her to set up one time to walk all contractors through so the good will isn't lost with the tenant. 

Also, if you are in Chicago, has notice been given to the tenant? It would be either 60 days or 120 days notice here. I find it highly unlikely that you will begin renovations immediately after closing unless the tenant already has a place lined up that he/she is moving too. 

You should be leaning hard on your real estate attorney during this process. They would know the ins and outs of the laws better than anyone on this forum, and out of area advice isn't going to help you from areas that are more owner friendly vs tenant friendly. 

[Crystal Smith]

Quote from @Arthur Chou:

Hey all, wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to deal with an uncooperative seller.  Just had an offer accepted on my very first investment property and I'm already dealing with some issues I had not foreseen.  I've been trying to get in contact with the listing agent/seller to have a few contractors walkthrough the property for renovations but they're being uncooperative.  It's been really difficult to get a response from the listing agent/seller on they keep pushing back dates because they do not want to disturb the current tenant.  We've already completed the home inspection and they were already being difficult with us during the home inspection.  I guess I'm wondering, technically speaking, are the owners allowed to prevent us from walking through the property until closing?  Ideally, I wanted everything coordinated to start reno immediately after closing but right now they're making things difficult for me.  Also I really wanted an accurate estimate on renovations as early as possible by having the contractors walk through the property.  Any advice for a first time investor? 

 You asked if "technically speaking", when the real question should be "legally speaking". Legally speaking if you have completed your inspection on a property occupied by tenants, you have no rights to enter the property again, unless there is something in your current contract and/or the lease with the current tenants that allows you to enter the property.

Part of my advice is too late for you but I'll give it anyway- If we are purchasing a property or represent someone purchasing a property that intends to use an inspector along with a GC, the inspector, and GC should be there at the same time.  On the properties we purchase that we know we are going to renovate, we don't use an inspector, we just bring the GC to do the inspection and provide the renovation estimate.

Since you are past this point my advice- If you have the results of the inspection and also have an idea of what you want renovated over and above what's in the report, provide the inspection report to your GC and ask them for a WAG. Many will say they won't give you a WAG until seeing the property but ask for it anyway. Use the WAG to determine whether you should stay in the deal or not. Add some cushion to the WAG.   Your only other choices are to cancel the deal or to close then get your contractors in.  Threatening to cancel the deal may move the seller to give you more access to the property.

[Bob Floss II]

Do the tenants know the property is for sale? Sometimes landlords are weird about letting you in the property because they don't want tenants to know its being sold. I've personally walked through at least a couple dozen apartment buildings where I've been introduced as the insurance adjuster. No idea why that works.

Even if tenants know, getting the tenants to give access, let alone repeated access, is extremely difficult. You can't keep going back with contractors and expect them to let you in.

As Patricia stated above, some agents are coached to keep the buyer out of the property. Once inspection period is over, I've had many agents refused any access for any reason until final walkthrough. They don't want to give the buyer any opportunity to discover something that makes them walk after their due diligence period has expired. 

[Jonathan Klemm]

Hey Arthur - My first snappy response is your realtor should be guiding you through this process and most importantly have a solid relationship established with the seller's agent. 

If your A/I (attorney inspection review period) is up then legally the sellers are required to give you access.  

I know when I was getting started, I was always in a rush and worried about starting everything right away.  I've come to find that rushing is resistance and that you will either have to learn the hard way OR get good people on your team to help guide you.  The latter was a hard concept for me to embrace when I was starting, but now always try to look to others who have been there before...