How important are sales skills to the investor

61 Replies

We see much discussion on how to find deals and buy deals. However not much is mentioned about how to handle the leads when you get them or HOW to CLOSE a deal.

A great closer will out perform someone with superior knowledge in most case's.

Would you consider signing up for course's on how to SELL and the ART of the deal etc etc.

I listed to a bit of Michael Q 's pod cast and read some feedback and many thought his methods techniques were to aggressive for lack of better words.. Were myself I thought hey more people need to know how to properly sell.

One goes to all the trouble to market and get in front of a buyer or seller than their presentation is like a wet noodle and they can't close the deal.

Thoughts on why there are not more sales course's being talked about on BP or offered or is it just an extension of Guru ism in many peoples mind ?

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

Appropriate for me.  I think I have a fairly good grasp on my product knowledge, but have usually referred to myself as "not a salesman type".  I've got to change that, and will be doing the Dale Carnegie 12 week course when next offered locally.  I think having no BS in the pitch is just as important though, as most people still have a decent BS meter, even when in distress.

This is such an interesting topic Jay!  As a real estate agent this is a focus of a lot of different trainings...I think its interesting that the first time I can really recall hearing this topic discussed by investors was on the podcast you are referring to.  What Michael Q. talked about is almost exactly the material taught in a Keller Williams course I took once a few years ago.  Kind of interesting crossover.  I'm always interested in getting better in this area.  

@Lisa Thoele  

  Yes its curious why there is not more of a focus on the subject on this site where much of the information talked about is about private investors going direct to private sellers and trying to score those off market deals.

As we know most of these distressed or off market sellers usually get contacted by multiple buyers.. So in my mind good sales skills will win the day everything being equal

When you look at the feedback Mike Q got some of it was pretty negative.. When in my mind he was giving good sales techniques.

Now having grown up with salesmen since I was old enough to know what one is.. There are all sorts of different techniques and approachs one can use to close a deal.. And its not one size fits all.. one must in my mind learn about the art of the deal or sale.. then modify to their personality and come up with there own style and presentation take a little bit from many different sales technique courses or books and create your own.. But always go into the deal knowing you have a set way your going to do the presentation and the close.

Its as simple as asking for the order.. You know how hard it is for people to blurt that out.. Very hard for most or many... But you do at some point have to ask for the order and close the deal.. That's what good sales training will teach you.

But based on the lack of response here on BP does not seem to be a high priority. YOu will just have people send out their post cards not make deals and just move on.. Just like you see RE agents that struggle and move on.

Hope your doing well. We have moved in next to Nancy and other than locking herself out of her house and having to chase her cats she is a very nice neighbor. The whole project turned out very nicely I think and I think she is very happy camper as well. 

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

@Jay Hinrichs  

Great topic.

Instead of looking at it as sales the approach could be you are there to meet and exceed the other persons expectation do that first your needs will follow. People like doing business with people they like and trust might as well be you.

I remember a long time ago my first income property when I went down cellar with the man of the household I told my wife to sit in the kitchen with the woman of the household get her to talk about all her family memories in the house, then I had my wife talk about what memories she sees with our family in the house. By the time we came up from the basement there was only one family that they were going to sell to even at less money than others offered.

Paul

Account Closed 

  Paul you are spot on.. I am smiling thinking about your wife creating that bond.. and thinking back on my days in the Timber business in Oregon and Washington.

My partner was the master at Porch time... That's what I called it.. Because before a land owner was going to let you log their timber you had to create that kind of reporte' we were competing with log buyers from the Mills who tended to be pretty gruff dudes and working for a salary.

Steve ( my partner) always had a cooler with Salmon and Elk Jerky in it.. First thing he did when he walked up was lay a nice Salmon fillet on them... Then they would talk on the porch or over coffee for hour or so.. And after about 3 of these types of visits Steve would ask for the order and he got it... I tried to do this but I did not have the patience and never could close those deals.. I handled all the MLS type stuff he did all the owner directs.

And then just to ice the cake, he has a family ranch on the Trask river on the coast of ORegon that gets a huge salmon and STeelhead run and he is one of the best fishermen I have ever met. so if it was a big patch say 500 to 2 mil MBF  he would take the landowner fishing and that sealed the deal every time.   Loved that business beats the heck out of rentals all day long  :)  If you ever catch AXE man that was us.. Phil Phele was one of our contract loggers for years.. We never owned any equipment we just bought the timber rights either through contract or timber deed,, then subbed all the work out to logging outfits. 

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

This is a great thread @Jay Hinrichs  

 Where can I listen to the podcast you mentioned?

Also, Does anyone have any great resources on this subject?

@Wayne Brooks as a salesman, I'm offended that you automatically associated sales with BS! ;-)
I know there are a lot of stereotypical salespeople out there, but there are also a lot of very talents yet down to earth and honest salespeople.
In my sales office we are constantly talking about the sales process. We have a sales cycle that we teach our reps. I've never used it to sell a house, but I've taken this cycle with me in several different industries and it has always been successful. I won't bore anyone with it, but if anyone is interested let me know and I'll send you a few things that I use to train my reps.
I love teaching sales techniques and would be more than happy to share what I've learned!

@Brandon Luke  

  on of the best ways to learn how to sell and CLOSE is being in a group setting and listening to a teacher then having salesmen chime in on how they do it or what key phrase's they use.. 'or what to say when the client says this or what to say when they come up with this objection..

If you can glean just one or two phrases that you like and sound genuine when you deliver them ( as it they are your style) it helps you tremendously.

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

@Jay Hinrichs I disagree a little. I'm constantly telling my reps it doesn't matter what you say, it's how you say it. UCLA did a study several years ago and found that 93% of what we communicate is non verbal. It is much more important to communicate with proper body language and meta verbal communication than it is to have a word for word response to this and that.
What's more important is listening to how you sound and what you look like when your talking as opposed to having a "silver bullet" response.

I do absolutely agree with what you said at the end, take time to make it sound how you want it. That's key.

@Brandon Luke  You totally misunderstood what I was saying, or I likely wasn't clear enough.  I wasn't associating BS with sales skills....I was referring to the all too frequent BS lines used in wholesaling, when dealing with distresses and/or somewhat ignorant sellers.  More directly the "I'm going to buy your house" routine, when the wholesaler barely has the earnest money of $200, and is going to string the owner out as long as they can while looking to flip the contract....then walking away at the end when they can't flip it, leaving an owner who thought their home was really sold and have been making plans to move on.  And all the other BS that a Lack of sales skills brings about in many cases.  I have a client with very good sales skills, and dealing with him directly is what's prompting me to develop some of my own.  I'm from a contracting background, and deficient on sales skills.

@Brandon Luke  

  exactly those that read from script just don't cut it.  I have occasionally looked at craigs list ads when I wanted to sell some notes.. and of course there is all sorts of wanna be's in that took note buyer class's you get them on the phone and its just hilarious.. they just read their script have no clue what they are doing etc etc.

@Wayne Brooks  

  Agree with you 100% about those with no ability to close tying up properties with the hope and prayer of finding another buyer.. Its sad how that end of the business is promoted on BP... or talked about on BP.. with out thought to the seller and what a pickle you can put a seller into if you don't close. 

Everyone needs to start somewhere but is it really teaching all these folks that its OK to do this with none of your own money etc etc.. Should it not be better for those that want to get into the business they hire on with someone get paid for what they do and learn the bizz and build up some capital. 

But hey its America right !!

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

Jay, your post made me smile - that sounds just like Nancy!!  I'm picturing her chasing her sweet but crazy cats around the yard.  I haven't been by since you guys finished your house but will have to swing by - I did meet Nancy for lunch about a month ago and she seemed pleased too.  I think if everyone is happy it means it turned out great!

I really enjoyed this thread - thanks so much for starting it.  I have been seriously considering devoting myself to becoming a wholesaler in 2015 - struggling to decide what direction to go in - and your post made me really consider the skills I already bring to the table and the skills I need to sharpen if I choose this path!  

Great topic, Jay. I've been a serious student of sales for many years, ever since one of my college professors produced a student who sold the pet rock that started a craze, the year before. I was hooked.

Too many people think of sales as people who over-power or bend the truth. They are present, however I'm referring to a different level of selling. My style has been consultative, that is, I try to ask questions after connecting with people, then probe and guide them without their feeling like it's an interrogation. 

I believe the job of sales is to assist people to make decisions that they are often unable to make on their own with guidance, direction and sufficient information as well as someone to help moderate their expectations.  

For many years, I was told by friends, associates and even competitors that I "gave good phone" as I've learned to do most everything that I need to accomplish on the phone without personally meeting people, unless I chose to. In fact, I stopped meeting clients in 1996!

This all stopped after my 2009 health problems cause tremendous cognitive damage and I wax unable to recall, on my own, those ever-valuable phone sales skills. Unfortunately, I had never documented or recorded myself so I set about regaining those tactics skills and have endeavored to regain them in earnest. I've been largely successful however it has not been without effort or commitment. 

You can have all technical skills in the world but if people don't have rapport (trust and comfort) you will have a heck of a time getting people to agree with your plans and ideas.

@Rick H.  

  thanks Rick  I believe it would be a great service to the community to talk about how to sell one's self and How to close deals.

The reality is most people need to be helped with the decision. 

Has anyone ever bought a car.. does the salesmen not try to close you 8 ways from sunday.. If they don't you would never buy you would leave the lot and move on.

Its the sales technique that creates the winners and the loser in direct sales.

Not sure if you listened to Mr. Yellow Letters pod cast but he is obviously a pro.. and it was amusing to see many BP followers react negatively to his style and techniques..

However I submit those that thought his techniques were to Used car salesmanish. probably don't close many deals.  Its all about how you control the client ( without them knowing your doing it) 

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

@Lisa Thoele  

  the environment here (PDX ) has really changed when the foreclosures went from TD sales to Judicial.. But there are always deals for those that know how to get them and close them.

Just around the block from my house are two abandoned houses. ONe the weeds are 5 feet tall and the other is just a mess as well. and those are probably 250k as is properties with a lot of upside for someone to rehab and sell at 450 to 500k...

FYI I think Nancy got one of the better buys for new construction I Lake O certainly were the market has gone.

My 3333 Royce way is now the cheapest New construction at 625k...We just finished this week you should check it out.

Best

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

We see much discussion on how to find deals and buy deals. However not much is mentioned about how to handle the leads when you get them or HOW to CLOSE a deal.

A great closer will out perform someone with superior knowledge in most case's.

Would you consider signing up for course's on how to SELL and the ART of the deal etc etc.

I listed to a bit of Michael Q 's pod cast and read some feedback and many thought his methods techniques were to aggressive for lack of better words.. Were myself I thought hey more people need to know how to properly sell.

One goes to all the trouble to market and get in front of a buyer or seller than their presentation is like a wet noodle and they can't close the deal.

Thoughts on why there are not more sales course's being talked about on BP or offered or is it just an extension of Guru ism in many peoples mind ?

No idea why. I began sales as a kid, it was cute I guess as adults listened to a kid demonstrating campers and equipment. I learned sales in the insurance business and financial services sector, it's anchored more in psychology and responses than canned scripts like a telemarketer, I hate that. RE sales must be approached at a higher level of communication and understanding, it's a huge financial transaction for people and the car salesman either changes his ways in RE or fails.

I see many asking for scripts, that is bad way to start, your ability to convince others must be demonstrated by knowledge in subtle ways as appropriate rather than blurting out some puffing speech. Jay is correct, you need to know your product in sales and in RE you need to understand a much bigger picture than learning a few guru methods.   :) 

Medium logoscopiccroppedblue2Bill Gulley, General Real Estate Academy | https://generalrealestateacademy.com

My belief is to tell people HOW you can benefit them, don't feed them any BS, and do what you promise. I haven't had any formal sales training but have found that being honest and sincere sets you apart from others.  Don't be pushy! Buyers and sellers are often turned off by that. If you can make the deal a win-win situation you have a great chance of success.

No company avatar mediumJohn Thedford, John Thedford | 239‑200‑5600 | http://www.capehomebuyers.com

@Jay Hinrichs   I think a lot of us could use that kind of training. Having been an instructor in the military, I learned quickly to "wing it" to communicate effectively with people, so I do better than many. But I know I could learn a lot from someone who knows the techniques that help sell. 

That said, I think your point about it being interpreted as "guru-ish" would make it a hard sell to the investor community, but coming from an established member of the community would certainly help.

@John Thedford  

  the skill to have is being a great closer and closing your clients without then realizing that you had a set formula that you worked them through to come to the conclusion on their own to do business with you.... When you can go into a deal and know how to lead the client to understand and close, and when your done they compliment you on your sales skills then you know you have the formula.

Where I have seen agents ( in my case when I owned a RE brokerage) have the hardest time is as I stated just asking for the order. Many people if you just leave the decision up to them will NEVER come to a decision ..One must lead them to the decision and then ASk for the order. 

 IE we are going to meet at the title company at 2 pm to sign all the docs and get this going,, Or would 4 be better... Instead of " When would you like to meet at the title company or we might be able to put this together what do you think"  your giving the client control when you as the professional salesmen needs to be in control throughout... Its these little nuances that make or break your success ...

Another Plum that served me well over the years... Was and I started every transaction the exact same. It went like this:

" Before we get started I just want to go over the ground rules ( this always gets their attention) And I only have one ground Rule   ( then they ask what is that)  my reply

NO is OK... and I explain that at anytime they are free to tell me NO and we will part as friends no pressure from my side.  I would go on to explain most clients are just to nice to say NO so will just go along with  the program is or what we are showing them when in their mind they are thinking there is no way I am going to do that.. You give them permission from the start to say NO... ( each and every client would then say OH YA we are that way we would for sure tell you NO when in reality non of them would)..  Then I would go on to say But if you like what your hearing and it makes sense then I am here TO DO business with you and expect to do business and help you buy this house or Help you out of this distressed property.

This served me well for all my years on the front line... And man it works you get the client from being on guard to knowing they can at any time say NO it gives them a comfort level.

And I use this today with my Investors.. At anytime when they are working with me NO is OK if they don't like a deal want to stop doing deals entirely  they have total veto rights. It gives the client a sense of comfort.. Instead of hey once you come into this deal you need to stay for X amount of years..

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

@Walt Payne  

  At the end of the Day Solid sales techniques and learning them are worth a lot of money and people that don't have them would do well by paying for them.  One really needs to be in a live setting were sales techniques and responses are bandied back and forth.. It helps one decide what style fits them.. Its just picking little bits of technique and applying it to your personality.. Like Mike the yellow letter guru  he is high energy so what works for him is not going to work for someone who is soft spoken and a little shy to begin with.  But there is a way for this person to get the message across and convert leads to closed sales.. With proper technique that they develop for their personality.

Winging it as you state over time becomes your style and you probably started winging it kind of the exact same way to different audiences  :)

I started at 14 selling Fuller brush door to door  we had scripts but then I would just ad my own brand... One of them was when I showed up I would say I am working my way through College Not sure were or how I thought of that... But I was obviously not in College and the house wife's of the day ( remember this is late 60S) would get a smile and then let me show them our catalog and so on and so forth.. I became the number one sales associate in no time. and was making 50 to 80 dollars a week working 3 days for 3 hours after school.. great money in the day far better than a paper route..Also teaches you rejection.. Rejection in our business is a constant one needs to learn how to deal with that as well as success lest one get discouraged and quit which 90% of the people that think they want a career in Real estate or investing end up doing.

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@John Thedford  

 Another Plum that served me well over the years... Was and I started every transaction the exact same. It went like this:

" Before we get started I just want to go over the ground rules ( this always gets their attention) And I only have one ground Rule   ( then they ask what is that)  my reply

NO is OK... and I explain that at anytime they are free to tell me NO and we will part as friends no pressure from my side.  I would go on to explain most clients are just to nice to say NO so will just go along with  the program is or what we are showing them when in their mind they are thinking there is no way I am going to do that.. You give them permission from the start to say NO... ( each and every client would then say OH YA we are that way we would for sure tell you NO when in reality non of them would)..  Then I would go on to say But if you like what your hearing and it makes sense then I am here TO DO business with you and expect to do business and help you buy this house or Help you out of this distressed property.

This is brilliant, and one of my favorite techniques. Anything you can do to catch the other person off guard, without upsetting them obviously, is a very good thing. It stops them from thinking about how to say no and just get rid of you, to actually hearing what you have to say.

@Terry Evans  this is a perfect example of the pattern interrupt we talked about a couple weeks ago. 

@Brandon Luke  

  Like to think I invented No is OK but I did not.. it was one of those lines I picked up in a sales meeting 35 years ago.. when we would all round table and brain storm on technique and what worked for what people.

And the one who taught me that approach was a retired Army officer who I worked with.

It is hands down the best line I have ever been taught or ever used..

Medium ksqoekox 400x400Jay Hinrichs, TurnKey-Reviews.com | Podcast Guest on Show #222

No one likes to admit it, however all sales is an attempt to manipulate the outcome in your favor. 

Road signs on the highway are an attempt to direct traffic to reduce accidents. As I see it, the role of sales is not to overpower but to provide a compelling reason to be guided in a certain direction.

Scripts? I've heard many people reel away from having anything prepared. I disagree completely. While "winging it" sounds attractive, having a roadmap helps me guide a prospect in the appropriate direction as I see it. My job is to not be tempted to prescribe solutions like a doctor who only knows to offer pills. My job is to probe and evaluate the situation and make a recommendation based on what's been revealed to me. 

Scripts are only tools that are probably best used only as a guide. I don't know of anyone who is likely to make a buying decision based on someone who sounds like a robot or a 3rd world "customer service" or tech support person. Scripts can be used to make certain that certain points are discussed. Scripts can be used as a training aid to remember to use certain terms, especially emotionally-charged, thought provoking words that encourage a prospect to reveal what their true objectives are.

I do not read off scripts. I did, however go to exhaustive lengths to re-build my traffic and sales conversion funnel(s). There is no shame in using all the tools available whether you are starting out and want to ensure conversion or if you're a seasoned vet who decided to "re-invent myself" as a personal challenge.

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