Pennsylvania Market?

30 Replies

What do you guys think about rental market in Pennsylvania?

It really depends on where. For example, the Pittsburgh market has a great rent to price ratio and there are some good neighborhoods where you can find cheap properties. However, in Philadelphia you're going to find higher prices and much more competition (more people). There are some more rural areas in PA that could work as well. It just depends on whether you're flipping, buying and holding, etc.

I agree with @James Triano it depends on where you invest, i have property in central PA, you can find good or bad deals, you just need to research the area, just like anywhere else.

Patrick Liska, Contractor

    I do not know the Pittsburgh market, but I really want to know ....

    What do you think the neighborhoods with the best investment potential to Flip?

    @Varinder Kumar , I have a few rentals in the suburbs of Philly, which I think is a better market for cash flow.

    Send me a message and I can share details.

    Percy N.

    @Ella Dembo

    The best neighborhoods for flipping will probably be a bit closer to the suburbs.  You're going to look for Mt. Lebanon, Dormont, and Upper St. Clair in the South Hills and Allison Park, Wexford, and Ross Township in the North.  Flipping in the city of Pittsburgh will be a bit tougher because many of the houses are row-style homes and the construction becomes more complicated.  Plus, the average age of a city home is probably 80-110 years old.  

    @Percy N. @Ella Dembo as far as getting comps for Shamokin, PA the ones that the agent is sending me are comparables off of loopnet in areas like Harrisburg, Scranton and Allentown. Would you use these as comps for Shamokin? Thanks 

    is there equity growth in scranton? The prices make me believe this but idk if i want to risk a buy. Any thoughts?

    I don't know about Scranton, but in the Wilkes-Barre area, I don't count on much appreciation, if any.

    Kevin D.

      The opportunity that i have is a 20 unit section 8 tenant apartment building. 100% vacancy going for 200k. Needs 150-200k rehab with a ARV(per agent) is 750k-780k. And a cash flow of 10k monthly per Bigger Pockets Rental Calculator my calculations. This is why i need to know if those comps from Scranton, Harrisburg etc are legit enough to be a comp for Shamokin? Please help!!!

      @Varinder Kumar I was responding to the other comment about equity growth. That said, I would definitely not use Wilkes-Barre or Scranton to comp Shamokin. I'm not saying it's a good or bad investment, but I don't think the comps would be accurate from that far away. 

      Kevin D.

        @Kevin D. My thoughts exactly. By looking at the map they are pretty spaced out. How can we go about getting actual comps? Is there some website that can give me near by sales etc?

        Originally posted by @Varinder Kumar :

        What do you guys think about rental market in Pennsylvania?

        Significantly cash-flow possible.  Significant appreciation unlikely.

        @Jon S. What statistical resource have you used for this? Please advise. Thanks!

        Cash-flow: Price-to-rent ratios...various free sources online.

        Appreciation: The two biggest predictors of appreciation are (1) population growth and (2) job growth.  Check the US Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics.  Look it up.  It's free info.

        Pennsylvania is not in the top 20 for either population nor job growth.

        Hi Varinder,

        We own all 30 properties in western PA.  The market is ideal for cash flow, but do not expect any appreciation.  You can find lucrative properties in the old steel towns along the rivers if you don't mind higher repair and maintenance costs.  The entire Pittsburgh metro area contains pockets of great cash-flowing neighborhoods.  You can easily meet the 2% rule.  You can also look at points north and east, such as New Castle or Latrobe, but you may have more difficult placing tenants. Pittsburgh's housing costs are very low relative to its strong-ish economy.  One other benefit it the low cost of contract work.

        I don't know Philly well.  I do understand that it is significantly more expensive than Pittsburgh, but cheaper than other East Coast cities.  I imagine you can find good deals in the inner ring of suburbs if you're willing to pay more in a downpayment.  PA law is generally middle of the road in terms of tenant/landlord friendliness. 

        Hope this helps.

        Johnathan

        @Jon S. Jon, Great stuff here buddy! im scanning through the site right now. One question i have for you is what do you based on to determine if it is a growing market or not. I get that you have a top 20 list, how ever how do you compare to other markets? is there a number that you have which it must meet? etc. Thanks!

        Originally posted by @Varinder Kumar :

        @Jon S. Jon, Great stuff here buddy! im scanning through the site right now. One question i have for you is what do you based on to determine if it is a growing market or not. I get that you have a top 20 list, how ever how do you compare to other markets? is there a number that you have which it must meet? etc. Thanks!

        Define "growing". The answer to your question is no. I generally stick with the top 10 markets for both population and job growth forecasts...mostly western and southern states, but south east also decent.  This is just the start, there are MANY more variables I consider before investing.

        I wish you the best.

        @Jon S.   Growing: New businesses being built yielding job growth etc. But i catch your drift on top ten forecast. Whats your next move to dig deeper once you have determined top ten? sorry for the questions just trying to improve my market determining skills.

        what if you bought by scranton university and rented to college students? Would that be beneficial?

        Originally posted by @Varinder Kumar :

        @Jon S.  Growing: New businesses being built yielding job growth etc. But i catch your drift on top ten forecast. Whats your next move to dig deeper once you have determined top ten? sorry for the questions just trying to improve my market determining skills.

        There are many variables to consider at the state level, county level, MSA/city level, and even neighborhood level.  There are entire books devoted to market research.  I may write my own one day, but I don't have the time to go into all of it on this thread.  Get any book written by Gary Eldred. He usually goes into it fairly well or feel free to checkout my blog posts on LinkedIn (see my profile for links).

        Though many investors may not do it very well or may not do it at all, investors first way of minimizing risk is to do adequate market research and select the market that will provide highest probably of finding a property that will help you meet your specific investment goals.

        That means that the variables you consider may differ if your investment goals differ (ex a focus solely on cash flow).

        @Jon S. Wow! Thanks a lot Jon you have been a tremendous amount of help. I will definitely reach out to you on Linkedln as well as the colleague  request on BP. Thanks again.

        Hi @Varinder Kumar

        We have a very strong rental market in Pittsburgh and you can find many properties with 200+ cashflow/door and GRM upwards of 5.

        Anything in particular you are looking for numbers wise, property class, etc?

        Are you looking at 1-4 unit properties or multifamily? I might be able to provide a bit more insight once you have some more there. 

        Not too familiar with Shamokin of much east of Pittsburgh. 

        Anthony Angotti, Real Estate Agent in PA (#RS335936)

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