Holton-Wise Group Reviews?

21 Replies

Hi everyone,

I am looking at some turnkey providers and would like to know about you guys' personal experiences. They do have a big inventory and they do provide a vast variety of properties. They do charge markups on pretty much anything they do(in their agreement, which is good and bad). Good in terms that they tell you beforehand that they will charge such and such on this type of work. Bad in terms that it might eat a chunk of the returns.

I would love to know that how many properties you bought? How was the overall experience? What is the level of their rehabs? How well is their PM? How well do they retain the tenants and how long did they take for your property(ies) to rent out? Would you buy more from them? Would you recommend them?

(If you don't feel like expressing yourself in the public, feel free to send me a DM)

Looking forward to some very helpful responses.

Thanks in advance and happy investing!

I never used them but I have used a different one in California. They used to charge flat 7% for everything. Please try out some other Management company and compare.

When you are dealing with markets with low rents, having fees like this are pretty typical.

Originally posted by @Jaudat S. :

Hi everyone,

I am looking at some turnkey providers and would like to know about you guys' personal experiences. They do have a big inventory and they do provide a vast variety of properties. They do charge markups on pretty much anything they do(in their agreement, which is good and bad). Good in terms that they tell you beforehand that they will charge such and such on this type of work. Bad in terms that it might eat a chunk of the returns.

I would love to know that how many properties you bought? How was the overall experience? What is the level of their rehabs? How well is their PM? How well do they retain the tenants and how long did they take for your property(ies) to rent out? Would you buy more from them? Would you recommend them?

(If you don't feel like expressing yourself in the public, feel free to send me a DM)

Looking forward to some very helpful responses.

Thanks in advance and happy investing!

 What is involved with the Lease Renewal Fee? If a tenant is already placed, what is being charged? For them to sign the renewal?

I'm researching them myself right now. Thanks for the contract. I understand they gotta make money but if you're cash flowing $350 a month... Those fees are gonna eat up all your profit like its nothing, or am I imagining things?

I recently purchased a property through them and decided to not use them for management. I made the decision based on the slow response time, amount of rental properties holton wise owns themselves, cost, and being given bad information (I still am trying to track down the prorated rent from October when I closed). They are now holding my money hostage and have charged me for services I did not authorize, request, or even know were done. I also am being required to sign a cancelation, but I never signed an agreement in the first place so they are not actually my PM. The entire operation seems like they have gotten too big and are just pushing things through, but it unfortunately also seems a bit unethical in regards to holding money that is not theirs and spending money that is not authorized as well.  

Updated about 2 months ago

It was a big misunderstanding and it is all worked out.

I don't believe they are a turn key provider as such at least Mr. Wise usually states he is not.. he is a RE broker who specializes in selling rentals.. is what I glean from his posts

we started buying in June this year in that market.. and our broker has mentioned this company not sure if we bought any they had listed.. I don't use them to represent us.. But they are well known in the brokerage community.

that fee schedule is pretty much standard all across the mid west.. nothing jumps out at me.

pay your own utl fee's and you save those or better yet have the tenants pay them..

the inspections have to be done one way or the other 50 bucks to do what they do is dirt cheap.

mowing the lawns is going rate..

so  pretty standard really.. usually they will have your authorization to spend more than a certain amount say 300 bucks.. and usually turn over or maintenance is marked up at least 15% over cost.

I can tell you unless you have thousands of units no one is getting rich in the PM bizz.. not sure how many they have and maybe they have thousands of doors in that case they are probably doing quite well on the PM size.. anything at 500 and under is usually kind of break even for most. or just a wage frankly.

Originally posted by @Ken Virzi :

I recently purchased a property through them and decided to not use them for management. I made the decision based on the slow response time, amount of rental properties holton wise owns themselves, cost, and being given bad information (I still am trying to track down the prorated rent from October when I closed). They are now holding my money hostage and have charged me for services I did not authorize, request, or even know were done. I also am being required to sign a cancelation, but I never signed an agreement in the first place so they are not actually my PM. The entire operation seems like they have gotten too big and are just pushing things through, but it unfortunately also seems a bit unethical in regards to holding money that is not theirs and spending money that is not authorized as well.  

 Ken,

I know you are new to the Real Estate Investment business & I am sorry you were less than impressed by Holton-Wise & how we operate but I need to clarify a few things for you as well as the other members of BP who are reading this as your interpretation of the transaction is a little misguided. What we are requesting from you is pretty standard stuff in the industry.

1. Your rental pro-rate is being handled by Ohio Real Title. That has been explained to you by my staff & Ohio Real Title multiple times now. 

2. As for your money, it is not being held hostage by any means. You were simply given our standard cancellation form. You have refused to sign this form along with your ACH authorization form & W9 form. 

Please allow me to reiterate why these forms are necessary. 

The Cancellation Form

The cancellation form provides a breakdown of exactly what monies Holton-Wise is sending to you & gets it in writing that we are no longer holding any of your money or money of any of the tenants who live in your properties. We need to have this form for liability reasons as your actions indicated very clearly your intention to have your property managed by Holton-Wise. You told me personally that you intended to use Holton-Wise as your Property Manger. You requested the management contract be sent to you to sign. You then sent Holton-Wise money to fund your property management escrow account, you also authorized the Title Company to send the tenants security deposits to Holton-Wise at closing. Only after one of the tenants paid rent to Holton-Wise did you explain that you intended to use another management company. All of the money that we intend to send to you is not even legally yours. Legally speaking, those security deposits belong to the tenants. The cancellation form provides that necessary line by line break down, absolves us of that liability & helps insure that our Ohio Division of Real Estate audited trust accounting is 100% accurate. 

The ACH Authorization form

The ACH authorization form is necessary for us to actually send money to you via direct deposit.

The W9 Form

The W9 form is necessary because we will be required by the IRS to send you a 1099 at the end of the year for the rent we collected from the tenants for you.

I wish you luck with your investment & would love nothing more than to wrap everything up for you as soon as possible, both for your satisfaction as well as my own bottom line. You see me paying my staff to go round & round with you about signing these forms is a fairly unprofitable activity. I would like them to be able to dedicate their time to other more profitable activities & see you continue to grow your portfolio of properties. As I am the number 1 seller of multi family properties in the greater Cleveland area I imagine as your portfolio grows you & I will end up on several of the same deals together. Let's keep things moving forward.

Actually I am still waiting on the forms I have yet to be sent either. I have not refused but simply asked a clarifying question and still have yet to be sent the cancellation even once. So you have false information. I have asked where the form is and am still waiting for an answer. 

As for the prorated rent for October it still is unaccounted for and just yesterday I was given an answer beyond “we don’t know” from your office. When I was told clearly by you that it was part of the closing costs, that was a wrong answer that took me lots of time to figure out.

You were paid to be my realator and closing things out such as making sure your client gets what’s due seems fair to me.

Updated about 2 months ago

Once again, this was a misunderstanding and it is worked out.

I am not angry. I just wanted to share my experience. The fact that prior to your post above I could barely get an email with more than three words shows me that you have lost the human factor of service. 

I think you are doing a great job of building a business. I think you could take a second look at customer service improvements.

You may have forgotten too, but the initial extra money I wanted used towards the down or the closing costs and was told to couldn’t. I did not argue but it is misleading to state that I sent Holton Wise to fund management services. In fact that was done very early. After close an agreement was sent without my request, but indeed it was my original intent to use the PM services. The rent was paid after I made it clear I wanted to move in a different direction. Your order of events to state your argument is actually completely wrong and this is one of the main reasons I went in a different direction. I have emails with date stamps to show that you are not correctly representing the facts.

I don’t assume it is intentional but is is disconcerting.

Good luck.

Updated 5 months ago

This post was in response to a post that appears to have been removed.

Renewal Fees are a vital part of a Property Management agreement.  If you are a Landlord / Owner - you should WANT a commission based renewal fee.  Meaning, when that tenant decides to renew.....the staff and the company managing the home should be financially rewarded.  

Renewals are a landlord and property manager's best friend.  They are good all around for everyone.  

In our company, we charge a flat fee of $275 for each renewal.  I know, this is low....seriously low.  

When a renewal is completed, the Portfolio Manager (an employee of my company) earns 50% of that renewal fee.  They are highly encouraged with financial incentives to get renewals.  This puts their interests in line with the Landlord / Owner's interests on keeping the home leased.  Often times taking a lot more crap from a tenant than is really necessary.  

Take a look at the alternative.....if there was NO incentive for a property management company to get a renewal because they do not charge a renewal fee.....why are they going to seek one?  

1) They will let the lease slip into a month to month practically forever.

2) There is no incentive to seeking rent-raises unless the staff has financial incentives to do so.

3) The alternative is a vacancy - costing the Landlord / Owner thousands of dollars! 

Example:  We took over a management agreement last year for a Landlord / Owner that was with a local competitor.  That company had let the home slip into an auto-renewal system of the lease without any sort of standardized rent increases.  Five years after the tenant first moved in, the rent on the home should have been $300 more.  This lack of incentive and lack of good business practices by that property management company cost that owner thousands in lost rent.  All could have been prevented with an incentive based compensation model with a renewal commission. 

When looking at a management company's fee structures, be sure to understand that it is a business - not a charity.  Embrace ways to reward their good service to your tenants and you.  If you find the right one to fit your needs, they will prove themselves to be valuable part of your business.

Good luck out there! 

I'm under contract with Holton-Wise. My understanding is they aren't a turnkey company but do sell turnkey properties. I worked with a realtor, Nicholas Varner. He set me up with a portal and sent general properties to me everyday. Nothing specific to me or my goals. I'll let you know how it goes

@Krista Walker If your just getting MLS e mail feeds then yes they are sending you open market deals. Some may be fully rehabbed by those that are in the business of buying and rehabbing homes were many investors buy these as well as a sprinkling of homeowners.. no mystery too it.

if they are sending you properties that they personally owned or are owned by the Holton company and they are fully rehabbed and they are going to manage then that would be coined a turnkey operation.

its my understanding they don't do that so I really don't know though.. maybe they have morphed into buying their own listings.

@Jay Hinrichs Would they need to inform me if they owned the property I'm buying? Thanks for the info

@Krista Walker   chuckling a little here but yes.. they should.. and of course when you get your preliminary title report it will clearly denote who the owner is.

and on your purchase and sale agreement there should be a seller.. unless they are doing a undisclosed double escrow type deal which I highly doubt he would do..

and or just flat ask them are these MLS listings your sending me or are they off market that you own or your close investors own. Its pretty easy to see if they are MLS listings it will be self evident on your e mails you open up..

also in low value assets markets like these and low value are transaction under 150k each.. its not uncommon for the brokers to only send their own listings so they can double end the deals  IE make both the buyer and sellers side commissions.. so  you can ask them that as well.. And its not uncommon for folks to hire their own broker to represent them.. as some folks think there is a conflict of interest when the broker represents both sides.. Myself personally I don't agree with that.. I used to ONLY sell my own property or listings.. And my wife just closed a transaction here in Oregon last week 2 homes and she made 4 sides .. these were 400 to 500k each though so pretty big pay days on those compared to rental houses in Cleveland.

If the agent is representing both BUYER and SELLER they must disclose this to both parties. It's Real Estate law and written into our ethics to be open and honest.

I'm sure everyone can attest that fee's suck but at the end of the day everyone is running a business here and nothing is done for free. Many investors complain about fees well the easy fix is either self manage or go out and establish these relationships like a landscaper and pay them yourself.  Then you need to ensure that you trust that person to actually do what they say they do.

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Ken Virzi:

I recently purchased a property through them and decided to not use them for management. I made the decision based on the slow response time, amount of rental properties holton wise owns themselves, cost, and being given bad information (I still am trying to track down the prorated rent from October when I closed). They are now holding my money hostage and have charged me for services I did not authorize, request, or even know were done. I also am being required to sign a cancelation, but I never signed an agreement in the first place so they are not actually my PM. The entire operation seems like they have gotten too big and are just pushing things through, but it unfortunately also seems a bit unethical in regards to holding money that is not theirs and spending money that is not authorized as well.  

 Ken,

I know you are new to the Real Estate Investment business & I am sorry you were less than impressed by Holton-Wise & how we operate but I need to clarify a few things for you as well as the other members of BP who are reading this as your interpretation of the transaction is a little misguided. What we are requesting from you is pretty standard stuff in the industry.

1. Your rental pro-rate is being handled by Ohio Real Title. That has been explained to you by my staff & Ohio Real Title multiple times now. 

2. As for your money, it is not being held hostage by any means. You were simply given our standard cancellation form. You have refused to sign this form along with your ACH authorization form & W9 form. 

Please allow me to reiterate why these forms are necessary. 

The Cancellation Form

The cancellation form provides a breakdown of exactly what monies Holton-Wise is sending to you & gets it in writing that we are no longer holding any of your money or money of any of the tenants who live in your properties. We need to have this form for liability reasons as your actions indicated very clearly your intention to have your property managed by Holton-Wise. You told me personally that you intended to use Holton-Wise as your Property Manger. You requested the management contract be sent to you to sign. You then sent Holton-Wise money to fund your property management escrow account, you also authorized the Title Company to send the tenants security deposits to Holton-Wise at closing. Only after one of the tenants paid rent to Holton-Wise did you explain that you intended to use another management company. All of the money that we intend to send to you is not even legally yours. Legally speaking, those security deposits belong to the tenants. The cancellation form provides that necessary line by line break down, absolves us of that liability & helps insure that our Ohio Division of Real Estate audited trust accounting is 100% accurate. 

The ACH Authorization form

The ACH authorization form is necessary for us to actually send money to you via direct deposit.

The W9 Form

The W9 form is necessary because we will be required by the IRS to send you a 1099 at the end of the year for the rent we collected from the tenants for you.

I wish you luck with your investment & would love nothing more than to wrap everything up for you as soon as possible, both for your satisfaction as well as my own bottom line. You see me paying my staff to go round & round with you about signing these forms is a fairly unprofitable activity. I would like them to be able to dedicate their time to other more profitable activities & see you continue to grow your portfolio of properties. As I am the number 1 seller of multi family properties in the greater Cleveland area I imagine as your portfolio grows you & I will end up on several of the same deals together. Let's keep things moving forward.

Update, Valerie from the management side of Holton Wise contacted me today and apologized as there was a lot of false information given and money missing. I believe her when she says this is very rare and an anomaly. I believe is this were the tact taken from the beginning I might still be using their services. I am not completely done with James Wise he is a great business man and I do not blame him for trying to make money. I do blame him for putting the fast deal over relationship, and in this case that weakness should be looked at as it could be costly. 

Turns out the Holton Wise company made a mistake with my situation. It has been cleared up, but James Wise shows here that his first response was to blame me instead of taking the opportunity to consider he might be in the wrong and would go about rectifying it. I do not fault anyone for a mistake, they happen, but I don't want to be blamed when the company I am hiring screws up.

Originally posted by @Ginger Marcos :

@ken 

@Ken Virzi how did your deal end up? I’m considering them myself. 

 It was my first out of state deal. It is cash flowing and I have not had any real problems, but I have learned that even though I made an offer under asking and it got accepted, it was still over priced. I have purchased 4 other duplexes in the area since then and this Holton Wise one is the worst of all the deals, but still a decent deal in regards to cash flow numbers. If I had to do it all over again, I would have offered $11k less then I did probably.

Updated about 2 months ago

After doing some research I was mistaken when saying it was the worst deal so far. It is right in the middle and I bought others that were bad deals, this was not a bad deal.

I'm an investor from California and used Holton Wise's services while helping me serve a tenant in the Cleveland Heights area. I'm going to try to have a level-head while writing this review since the treatment meted out to me was pathetic, to say the least. Here are the facts and I'll advice you all to decide for yourself.

Problem #1: Lack of communication: For close to 2 months from the time I signed a contract with HWPM, I was able to reach a human behind a phone for a sum total of TWO times. The rest of the time was spent talking to voice mail boxes with a 100% guarantee from them that no one would call back. 

Problem #2: My emails were far more lucky than my phone calls. They indeed got a response-rate of close to 50%. Although, I had to copy 2 or 3 different people before I got a response, I, at least, didn't have to pay google for those extra CCs.

Problem #3: Miscommunication: Obviously, when they don't have time to talk to the owners, there is only so much we can "communicate" with them. Some of the basic instructions I gave them were either not acknowledged or got lost in translation (Please see below). 

Problem #4: Incorrect lease: One of my several emails had clear instructions on what kind of lease I wanted with the tenant, specifying clearly the rent amount, the lease duration and the terms on paying utilities. Of course, these instructions only matter when there is someone reading your email. 

The lease that was signed and sent to me had an incorrect rent amount with an additional clause making me pay for utilities!! HWPM's response was simple: Sorry, but we cannot fix the error. 

Reason: They pointed to a clause in their terms that says HWPM has every right to "negotiate" the lease terms with the tenants. Oh, thank my heavens for their power to negotiate a deal $125 less than what I had asked for and for making me pay my tenant's utilities! They also had one more interesting thing to say: That the lease is a binding agreement and that it cannot be changed. Well, blame me for not realizing that. 

The only solace was that property manager called and accepted the error at their end. However, being the lucky owner that I am, I was given the absolute honor of footing the bill/loss. 

Problem #5: Attitude: Several people I spoke to mentioned that such errors are common in management companies and that a good company would try to fix their mistake and keep you with them. But HWPM made no such attempt, even in the wildest of imaginations. In fact, an email I received from the owner made it clear to me to find some other management company. And I'm extremely glad that he said that - I'll be grateful to him for giving me such wonderful advice!

Problem #6: Fees: This one is for the math buffs. I was with HWPM under a contract for not more than 2 months. But man, they do make a good business out of you. For the under-prepared, here's a split-up of all the fees that I had to pay:

a) Account Setup Fee: $95

b) Bill Pay Fee: $15 (A bill paid to the city of cleveland for some permit)

c) Lease renewal fee: $195 (That is right! For getting me a lease whose terms I did not authorize)

d) Management Fee: 10%

e) Contract early termination Fee: $195 (Yes, I deserved this for going with them in the first place :) )

Bottom-Line: Not a single attempt from them to set things right. I have now moved to a different company in the same area and am loving it so far. They have taken ZERO fees from me so far and have been providing an amazing service . A world of difference and most importantly, the new company does indeed have humans who talk to you over phone and respond to your emails!

Originally posted by @Sivakumar Ganapathy :

I'm an investor from California and used Holton Wise's services while helping me serve a tenant in the Cleveland Heights area. I'm going to try to have a level-head while writing this review since the treatment meted out to me was pathetic, to say the least. Here are the facts and I'll advice you all to decide for yourself.

Problem #1: Lack of communication: For close to 2 months from the time I signed a contract with HWPM, I was able to reach a human behind a phone for a sum total of TWO times. The rest of the time was spent talking to voice mail boxes with a 100% guarantee from them that no one would call back. 

Problem #2: My emails were far more lucky than my phone calls. They indeed got a response-rate of close to 50%. Although, I had to copy 2 or 3 different people before I got a response, I, at least, didn't have to pay google for those extra CCs.

Problem #3: Miscommunication: Obviously, when they don't have time to talk to the owners, there is only so much we can "communicate" with them. Some of the basic instructions I gave them were either not acknowledged or got lost in translation (Please see below). 

Problem #4: Incorrect lease: One of my several emails had clear instructions on what kind of lease I wanted with the tenant, specifying clearly the rent amount, the lease duration and the terms on paying utilities. Of course, these instructions only matter when there is someone reading your email. 

The lease that was signed and sent to me had an incorrect rent amount with an additional clause making me pay for utilities!! HWPM's response was simple: Sorry, but we cannot fix the error. 

Reason: They pointed to a clause in their terms that says HWPM has every right to "negotiate" the lease terms with the tenants. Oh, thank my heavens for their power to negotiate a deal $125 less than what I had asked for and for making me pay my tenant's utilities! They also had one more interesting thing to say: That the lease is a binding agreement and that it cannot be changed. Well, blame me for not realizing that. 

The only solace was that property manager called and accepted the error at their end. However, being the lucky owner that I am, I was given the absolute honor of footing the bill/loss. 

Problem #5: Attitude: Several people I spoke to mentioned that such errors are common in management companies and that a good company would try to fix their mistake and keep you with them. But HWPM made no such attempt, even in the wildest of imaginations. In fact, an email I received from the owner made it clear to me to find some other management company. And I'm extremely glad that he said that - I'll be grateful to him for giving me such wonderful advice!

Problem #6: Fees: This one is for the math buffs. I was with HWPM under a contract for not more than 2 months. But man, they do make a good business out of you. For the under-prepared, here's a split-up of all the fees that I had to pay:

a) Account Setup Fee: $95

b) Bill Pay Fee: $15 (A bill paid to the city of cleveland for some permit)

c) Lease renewal fee: $195 (That is right! For getting me a lease whose terms I did not authorize)

d) Management Fee: 10%

e) Contract early termination Fee: $195 (Yes, I deserved this for going with them in the first place :) )

Bottom-Line: Not a single attempt from them to set things right. I have now moved to a different company in the same area and am loving it so far. They have taken ZERO fees from me so far and have been providing an amazing service . A world of difference and most importantly, the new company does indeed have humans who talk to you over phone and respond to your emails!

 Sivakumar Ganapathy

While it's never my goal to have an unhappy investor there are some investors who simply want a product that is different than the one that we offer. Holton-Wise's property management services are not the correct fit for everyone. I will be the 1st to state that. If you go to McDonald's & order a Taco you won't be given a Taco. Doesn't mean McDonald's is bad, just means they do not serve Tacos.

Holton-Wise does it's very best to remain as transparent as possible about all of our policies & procedures. The fee structure that you have taken issue with is available right on our website for download. While I am sure you would like to pay less I make no apologies for our fee structure. I feel that it is very competitive in this business that has razor thin margins. I have no intention of lowering that fee structure.

I started this business to make money just like I am sure all of you that have read or are reading this thread are here on Bigger Pockets to make money. I will make no apologies for creating a profitable business. The notion that your new Property Manger has been working for you without charging any you any fees. Hey, I am happy for you. However, I have no desire to compete with free. I hope it works out for you but unfortunately I've never heard of that company & I'd imagine the reason why it's so much smaller than Holton-Wise is it's fee structure as it's currently laid out is not a sustainable Business structure. Below is a screen shot of our property management FAQ. As you can see all of our pricing is right there in the open for anyone to download.

As for your complaint on the lease & you not having the final say over what terms were acceptable. At Holton-Wise when we manage the property, WE MANAGE THE PROPERTY. We negotiate the lease terms that we feel will result in the most profitable operation of your properties. We have the experience & expertise in this market, hence why we have been hired & built a portfolio that is sized the way it is. It would be logistically impossible for us to act in any other capacity.

Some investors want to be more hands on & have input & give approval on this process. While I can understand why an investor would want to do that it should be noted that Holton-Wise is not going to be the right fit for the hands on investor. The hands on investor is looking for more of an employer / employee relationship. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not the business that Holton-Wise is in. Again, this is not something we hide from. It's listed right on our website on our Property Management FAQ.

It is also listed in our Property Management agreement which is available for anyone to download.

As for the water payments. Again, we make that as clear as possible on the Property Management FAQ which is available for all to see on our website.

Regarding your issues with our communication. Communication is a tough one. I apologize that we have fallen short on the communication end. It is incredibly challenging to build a Property Management company that hits it's customers expectations in this regard. Admittedly, it is still something that Holton-Wise is working out the kinks on. It should be noted that phone calls are an incredibly inefficient mean of communication between owner & Property Manger. Holton-Wise's thoughts on why that is can be seen below.

I am sorry you are less than impressed with Holton-Wise & that the business relationship didn't pan out. However Holton-Wise offers a competitive as well as market tested & proven product. We are unable to change all of our products, policies & procedures to meet the specific needs of every single investor out there in the world. No business can please everyone. We simply try to put fourth the best product we can to service the clients that buy into our philosophy & strategy. I wish you luck on your future investments. 

This is exactly why I do not focus on commercial PM stuff.

Everyone thinks it's easy but yet nobody wants to do it and wants to pay little money! LOL

I would rather be sitting on the beach.

I have a friend that manages about 15 million sq ft of commercial retail. He basically does it to keep his workers working in different economic cycles and then learns when the owners want to sell as he usually buys them. He owns about 6 million sq ft himself.

I have not heard of a PM company in my career ever say it was a huge money maker for them. It is seen more as a loss leader where they make profit on other things. 

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