79 Replies

@Sam Atkin Glad you received value from it! I actually have my own proprietary database and method of farming phone numbers. I pull from several different sources to get the most up-to-date number for an individual. I pull my lists from rebogateway's investor title toolbox. After I have the list, I then add the numbers to it.

@Cornelius Garland Hi there, I have read this entire article in detail and first wanted to say thank you for sharing your approach. I am in the Seattle market and have been wholesaling since 2015. I mostly get my deals through direct door knocking and getting a contract with that person to help them right away or referrals. But this is not very scalable so I have questions about cold calling. 

1. Are you still having to dial 70 numbers to get 1 conversation? 

2. And how many conversations do you have to have in order to get 1 signed contract?

When I tried cold calling the first time, I had to get the addresses and then get the numbers from LocatePlus. I pulled 3 numbers per person. 

Looking at my results right now, I called 112 names (3 numbers each) and got 13 conversations out of that. That breaks down to for every 8 names = 1 conversation happens.

I was told that 30 conversations = 1 contract signed on average. Do you agree with this number and or not?

This would mean you need to call 240 names = 30 conversations=1 contract, but this feels VERY low. 

I stopped calling at this point, and did not get any contracts with the numbers I mentioned.

BUT - I had no automated sequences whatsoever because I didnt want to violate any laws. It seems once a month I get that tiny lawsuit card in the mail informing me that xyz company is getting sued for not asking if they could text me first. And they are the big fish, not small companies.

I am trying to be diligent and realistic in 2018 in breaking down my goals into actions to meet those goals. I hope with this post I can help others as well. Thank you!

@Autumn Allen   Autumn, your numbers on cold calling IMHO look actually good.  240 names to get 30 conversations.  I use to send out ton of mail and be happy to get 1/2 percent people calling me.    Perhaps you gave up too soon?   

Regarding "no automated sequences" you mentioned do you mean auto dialer like Mojosells or other product to do your calling instead of you manually doing it?  I'm trying to see how people are getting around that using an auto dialer without violating the TCPA rules.   Also, could you elaborate on you getting a "tiny lawsuit card?"  Were you being threatened of a lawsuit for your dialing prospects even though you were not using an auto dialer?

@Autumn Allen I agree that door knocking and referrals aren't a scalable marketing method. I was doing that initially when I started and it was a tough grind. It taught me the value of a lead, and I ensure we maximize each one that comes in our CRM. To answer your first questions, I would say that the 70:1 ratio is still correct. However, I've been leaning heavily on voicemail broadcasts recently. It's easier to filter through the calls and my virtual assistant can handle it. Currently, we're receiving a 2% response rate from voicemail broadcasts, and we're averaging a 40% voicemail drop rate on our lists. So if we have a list of 10,000 phone numbers, 4,000 will deliver, and we'll receive roughly 80 calls. Out of those 80, we can expect that 10% will be interested in selling their property.

I think 30 conversations to get one contract is off, at least when it comes to this form of marketing. I can understand door knocking or talking to a highly motivated list, like sellers that are going to get foreclosed on in a few weeks. However, we need to look at cold calling like direct mail; you're still casting a wide net in order to get a lead. Unfortunately, a lot of investors believe that just because you have a phone number that the rules of marketing don't apply. We still need to market to a lot of homeowners and we still need to followup consistently. The real advantage of targeting individuals with cold calling is that it is active marketing, not passive, and you can get to your motivated sellers quicker. Also, you're targeting individuals that may be dodging creditors, so they change their address every few months. 

I suggest increasing your volume and getting an auto dialer. It's still a numbers game, just like direct mail. However, you will see a higher response rate cold calling. I'm not an attorney and the decision to market this way is ultimately yours, but I would say that I haven't had an issue with the law doing this. Also, the investors I skip trace for and provide numbers to haven't had any issues either, and I've been doing this for over 2 years. As long as you're being professional on the phone and taking people off your list if they request it, you shouldn't encounter any issues. You need every advantage you can get in a competitive market so I'd risk a small fine in order to get a huge deal. Additionally, I'm really ambiguous when I'm calling. I use virtual numbers and don't divulge my full name on the voicemail and text broadcasts so it's practically impossible for someone to trace a call back to me.

Lastly, I would focus on the followup whenever a lead calls in. You're rarely going to contract a seller on the first call. Even if the seller is highly motivated, they're going to need to feel comfortable working with you before they sign paperwork. On our first call with the seller, we're looking to gather information and we don't even discuss the offer. The second call, we discuss the offer and our justification. Once we hit the third call, it's then time to send off paperwork. My advice is to not rush into trying to contract the deal on the first call. I hope this helps and let me know if you have any followup questions!

@Ester Tellez I developed my own system and database that I get my phone numbers from. A lot of the tools on the market have outdated phone numbers and they're taken directly from public records. I was frustrated by the lack of accuracy that a lot of the skip tracing tools offered so I decided to take matters into my own hand and seek out the most updated numbers for my direct mail lists.

@Cornelius Garland   Hi Cornelius, thanks for being so generous on sharing!  It looks like you have a service on finding phone numbers.  How would I find out more about pricing etc?  

Also, you mentioned you pull your lists from Rebogateway.  How does that compare to listsource, listability, etc?

@Dave Lee  I'll shoot you a DM with the requested information. It's against forum rules for me to openly solicit my business on here.

Rebogateway is better compared to List Source and a lot of other list-pulling sites. Their pricing is very competitive and their data is way more updated and complete than List Source. I would only recommend it, however, if you're doing high volume. They have a few lower-tier plans, but those still are based on you pulling thousands of records per month.

@Cornelius Garland  As many others have mentioned, this is an incredible thread.  Thanks for the information!  

You mentioned that you're leaning more heavily on Voicemail broadcasts recently.  Has that taken the place of your cold calling all together, or are you doing both in tandem?  If it's both, how are you deciding which lists get cold called vs RVM? 

Also, as you're getting responses to your voicemail drops, are they going direct to your company voicemail or is your VA handling those call backs live?

@Cornelius Garland  As many others have mentioned, this is an incredible thread. Thanks for the information!

You mentioned that you're leaning more heavily on Voicemail broadcasts recently. Has that taken the place of your cold calling all together, or are you doing both in tandem? If it's both, how are you deciding which lists get cold called vs RVM?

Also, as you're getting responses to your voicemail drops, are they going direct to your company voicemail or is your VAhandling those call backs live?

@Jon Keeney Glad to help, Jon! I mainly rely on VM broadcasts because I'm able to cover more ground quicker. Since I'm in several markets, it's easier to set specific days to broadcast to a specific list. I can easily predict how many leads I'll receive based on the amount of numbers I broadcast. With cold calling, the amount of leads I receive varies based on the day and market. Additionally, my dollar goes a lot further with VM broadcasting opposed to cold calling. When I do VM drops, I have them routed to a Callrail number, and it gets sent straight to voicemail. Our VA will then filter through the leads that leave voicemails and call them personally. He'll shoot the abandoned calls a text to try and get in touch with them. If they called in, it might have been an accident, or the individual may not like getting routed directly to voicemail.

Currently, my marketing methods in order of preference are text broadcasts, VM broadcasts, and then cold calling. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Thank you @Cornelius Garland for such a wealth of information!  I also hope you have a blessed year!  

I’m a new wholesaler and I’m about to venture on my first RVM and cold calling campaigns.  Can you share what time/days are the best for VM drops and for cold calling, unless you have your reps call all throughout the day?  From what I read, the golden hours are somewhere between 8-10am and 4-6pm.  Would like to hear what you’ve been experiencing.  Thank you in advance!

@James K. I’m glad that my post was helpful! Yes, I think 11 AM is the perfect time. You’ll be catching sellers on their lunch break and if they can’t talk then, you can atleast schedule a time to call back after work. I like calling between 5-8 PM, but there isn’t enough time to work all of the leads that come in. If we send them at 11, we can get through all of the leads and have a fresh start the next day.

My team cold calls from 9-6 PM EST on Monday through Saturday. We just take off Sunday. I hope everything goes well with your first campaign.

@Chase Reynolds Currently, we only skip trace. We used to do campaign management but we don’t provide this anymore, as a lot of investors wanted their campaigns customized. Just a lot of logistical issues and moving pieces involved, and the cost per lead started getting really high.

@Jill F. Thank you, Jill! I’m always testing and learning. I may update this post or create a new post on how I’ve been marketing so far this year. I’m cold calling but doing some other “ninja” techniques. My ultimate goal is to get my marketing costs super low by being more targeted and managing my follow-ups better.