@David Wurzel This is right up my alley. All we do in my wholesale company is cold call, and I stopped direct mail about a year ago so I have plenty of data, best practices, and insight as it pertains to multiple markets. We are currently cold calling our largest list of leads right now. It's a list of 9054 numbers in 6 cities spread across 3 states. We're targeting high equity absentee lists, code violations, and recently-divorced property owners. To bottom line it, it takes us about 2400 unique leads to get one deal. A lot of people may think it takes forever to cold call this amount of leads in any reasonable amount of time, and that's correct if you don't have the right systems in place. We have an army of trained assistants that tackle around 50-100 leads per day using a rapid dialer so they're able to get through more leads within a shorter period. Also, we expedite the time it takes to get through 2400 leads by sending out voicemail blasts through Slybroadcast.com. It's a great resource, and I use it every day. We have the leads that call back go straight-to-voicemail and if they leave a voicemail, then we call them back. I have an assistant that sits in the pocket all day sourcing these leads and generating offers based on a formula we generated by market. The combination of Slybroadcasting while cold calling is powerful. However, cold calling is something that needs to be done daily to generate great results. Unlike direct mail, your prospect doesn't have a physical reminder of your company so you need to have them on an aggressive followup sequence and/or VM blast campaign. We'll hit the same leads every week for 8 weeks straight and then take a break. This may seem like overkill, but you're only going to be able to touch 40-50% of your list by cold calling. We're currently averaging a 4% response rate across all markets. I'll provide my metrics for one week's worth of calling in our Charleston market below.
So we placed 436 outbound calls during the week of 9-15 OCT 2017. We consider a response whenever we get connected with an individual and it's the correct number. In this case, we only consider a remove from list request and property for sell inquiry as connects; voicemails that we leave don't count. We received 6 connects and a total of 4 properties for sale, which resulted in a 1.3% response rate. Over the course of a month, this campaign will have a 5.2% response rate, which is way higher than direct mail's average 1% response rate. We'll likely receive one really warm lead that just isn't ready to sell. In this case, we'll followup with this lead every week and place them on an email and text followup sequence, and we'll get the deal under contract the next month.
One thing to note is that you have to cold call in volume and consistently. It takes us roughly 70 dials to get 1 connect! This is why I always, always, always, encourage investors that want to cold call to do large lists, just like you would in direct mail. A lot of them want to "dip their toe in" and "test the waters", but the numbers above tell the whole story. You can't expect to call a list of 100 leads and get a deal, even if it's a drive for dollars list with distressed properties. Please let me know if you'd like for me to clarify anything I stated or want more metrics. I'm a numbers nerd.haha. Monitoring my company's KPIs is my life.
@Sam Atkin Glad you received value from it! I actually have my own proprietary database and method of farming phone numbers. I pull from several different sources to get the most up-to-date number for an individual. I pull my lists from rebogateway's investor title toolbox. After I have the list, I then add the numbers to it.
@Cornelius Garland Hi there, I have read this entire article in detail and first wanted to say thank you for sharing your approach. I am in the Seattle market and have been wholesaling since 2015. I mostly get my deals through direct door knocking and getting a contract with that person to help them right away or referrals. But this is not very scalable so I have questions about cold calling.
1. Are you still having to dial 70 numbers to get 1 conversation?
2. And how many conversations do you have to have in order to get 1 signed contract?
When I tried cold calling the first time, I had to get the addresses and then get the numbers from LocatePlus. I pulled 3 numbers per person.
Looking at my results right now, I called 112 names (3 numbers each) and got 13 conversations out of that. That breaks down to for every 8 names = 1 conversation happens.
I was told that 30 conversations = 1 contract signed on average. Do you agree with this number and or not?
This would mean you need to call 240 names = 30 conversations=1 contract, but this feels VERY low.
I stopped calling at this point, and did not get any contracts with the numbers I mentioned.
BUT - I had no automated sequences whatsoever because I didnt want to violate any laws. It seems once a month I get that tiny lawsuit card in the mail informing me that xyz company is getting sued for not asking if they could text me first. And they are the big fish, not small companies.
I am trying to be diligent and realistic in 2018 in breaking down my goals into actions to meet those goals. I hope with this post I can help others as well. Thank you!
@Cornelius Garland great info, quick question, who do you use to get the phone numbers to your list? i have used reverse lookup from mojodialer. Just wondering if you have a better one. Thank you for your insight
@Autumn Allen Autumn, your numbers on cold calling IMHO look actually good. 240 names to get 30 conversations. I use to send out ton of mail and be happy to get 1/2 percent people calling me. Perhaps you gave up too soon?
Regarding "no automated sequences" you mentioned do you mean auto dialer like Mojosells or other product to do your calling instead of you manually doing it? I'm trying to see how people are getting around that using an auto dialer without violating the TCPA rules. Also, could you elaborate on you getting a "tiny lawsuit card?" Were you being threatened of a lawsuit for your dialing prospects even though you were not using an auto dialer?
@Autumn Allen I agree that door knocking and referrals aren't a scalable marketing method. I was doing that initially when I started and it was a tough grind. It taught me the value of a lead, and I ensure we maximize each one that comes in our CRM. To answer your first questions, I would say that the 70:1 ratio is still correct. However, I've been leaning heavily on voicemail broadcasts recently. It's easier to filter through the calls and my virtual assistant can handle it. Currently, we're receiving a 2% response rate from voicemail broadcasts, and we're averaging a 40% voicemail drop rate on our lists. So if we have a list of 10,000 phone numbers, 4,000 will deliver, and we'll receive roughly 80 calls. Out of those 80, we can expect that 10% will be interested in selling their property.
I think 30 conversations to get one contract is off, at least when it comes to this form of marketing. I can understand door knocking or talking to a highly motivated list, like sellers that are going to get foreclosed on in a few weeks. However, we need to look at cold calling like direct mail; you're still casting a wide net in order to get a lead. Unfortunately, a lot of investors believe that just because you have a phone number that the rules of marketing don't apply. We still need to market to a lot of homeowners and we still need to followup consistently. The real advantage of targeting individuals with cold calling is that it is active marketing, not passive, and you can get to your motivated sellers quicker. Also, you're targeting individuals that may be dodging creditors, so they change their address every few months.
I suggest increasing your volume and getting an auto dialer. It's still a numbers game, just like direct mail. However, you will see a higher response rate cold calling. I'm not an attorney and the decision to market this way is ultimately yours, but I would say that I haven't had an issue with the law doing this. Also, the investors I skip trace for and provide numbers to haven't had any issues either, and I've been doing this for over 2 years. As long as you're being professional on the phone and taking people off your list if they request it, you shouldn't encounter any issues. You need every advantage you can get in a competitive market so I'd risk a small fine in order to get a huge deal. Additionally, I'm really ambiguous when I'm calling. I use virtual numbers and don't divulge my full name on the voicemail and text broadcasts so it's practically impossible for someone to trace a call back to me.
Lastly, I would focus on the followup whenever a lead calls in. You're rarely going to contract a seller on the first call. Even if the seller is highly motivated, they're going to need to feel comfortable working with you before they sign paperwork. On our first call with the seller, we're looking to gather information and we don't even discuss the offer. The second call, we discuss the offer and our justification. Once we hit the third call, it's then time to send off paperwork. My advice is to not rush into trying to contract the deal on the first call. I hope this helps and let me know if you have any followup questions!
@Ester Tellez I developed my own system and database that I get my phone numbers from. A lot of the tools on the market have outdated phone numbers and they're taken directly from public records. I was frustrated by the lack of accuracy that a lot of the skip tracing tools offered so I decided to take matters into my own hand and seek out the most updated numbers for my direct mail lists.
@Cornelius Garland Hi Cornelius, thanks for being so generous on sharing! It looks like you have a service on finding phone numbers. How would I find out more about pricing etc?
Also, you mentioned you pull your lists from Rebogateway. How does that compare to listsource, listability, etc?
@Dave Lee I'll shoot you a DM with the requested information. It's against forum rules for me to openly solicit my business on here.
Rebogateway is better compared to List Source and a lot of other list-pulling sites. Their pricing is very competitive and their data is way more updated and complete than List Source. I would only recommend it, however, if you're doing high volume. They have a few lower-tier plans, but those still are based on you pulling thousands of records per month.
@Cornelius Garland As many others have mentioned, this is an incredible thread. Thanks for the information!
You mentioned that you're leaning more heavily on Voicemail broadcasts recently. Has that taken the place of your cold calling all together, or are you doing both in tandem? If it's both, how are you deciding which lists get cold called vs RVM?
Also, as you're getting responses to your voicemail drops, are they going direct to your company voicemail or is your VA handling those call backs live?
@Cornelius Garland As many others have mentioned, this is an incredible thread. Thanks for the information!
You mentioned that you're leaning more heavily on Voicemail broadcasts recently. Has that taken the place of your cold calling all together, or are you doing both in tandem? If it's both, how are you deciding which lists get cold called vs RVM?
Also, as you're getting responses to your voicemail drops, are they going direct to your company voicemail or is your VAhandling those call backs live?
@Jon Keeney Glad to help, Jon! I mainly rely on VM broadcasts because I'm able to cover more ground quicker. Since I'm in several markets, it's easier to set specific days to broadcast to a specific list. I can easily predict how many leads I'll receive based on the amount of numbers I broadcast. With cold calling, the amount of leads I receive varies based on the day and market. Additionally, my dollar goes a lot further with VM broadcasting opposed to cold calling. When I do VM drops, I have them routed to a Callrail number, and it gets sent straight to voicemail. Our VA will then filter through the leads that leave voicemails and call them personally. He'll shoot the abandoned calls a text to try and get in touch with them. If they called in, it might have been an accident, or the individual may not like getting routed directly to voicemail.
Currently, my marketing methods in order of preference are text broadcasts, VM broadcasts, and then cold calling. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Thank you @Cornelius Garland for such a wealth of information! I also hope you have a blessed year!
I’m a new wholesaler and I’m about to venture on my first RVM and cold calling campaigns. Can you share what time/days are the best for VM drops and for cold calling, unless you have your reps call all throughout the day? From what I read, the golden hours are somewhere between 8-10am and 4-6pm. Would like to hear what you’ve been experiencing. Thank you in advance!
@James K. I’m glad that my post was helpful! Yes, I think 11 AM is the perfect time. You’ll be catching sellers on their lunch break and if they can’t talk then, you can atleast schedule a time to call back after work. I like calling between 5-8 PM, but there isn’t enough time to work all of the leads that come in. If we send them at 11, we can get through all of the leads and have a fresh start the next day.
My team cold calls from 9-6 PM EST on Monday through Saturday. We just take off Sunday. I hope everything goes well with your first campaign.
@Chase Reynolds Currently, we only skip trace. We used to do campaign management but we don’t provide this anymore, as a lot of investors wanted their campaigns customized. Just a lot of logistical issues and moving pieces involved, and the cost per lead started getting really high.
@Jill F. Thank you, Jill! I’m always testing and learning. I may update this post or create a new post on how I’ve been marketing so far this year. I’m cold calling but doing some other “ninja” techniques. My ultimate goal is to get my marketing costs super low by being more targeted and managing my follow-ups better.
@Cornelius Garland Amazing Value in this thread! Always leading with value. In reference to your RVMs. If you don't mind sharing I am curious about KPIs in using this medium.
What are you seeing in terms of:
Cost per lead?
Cost per deal?
Are you also hammering the same lists everyday (Mon-Sat) again for a month, then updating it at the beginning of the following month and repeating the process?
Which RVM system are you using to fulfill the orders?