Disappointment right before closing (inspections/roof issues)

Disappointment right before closing (inspections/roof issues)

Superior, WI · Member since 2017 · 81 posts · 47 votes

So we're about to close on an 8-unit apartment building at $250K, no money down and seller-financed at 6%, 5-year term, 30-year amort. The plan was to fix it up, normalize rents, and refi out with a standard banknote as the building is appraised at $305k while about 17% under market rents. We were hoping to refi with 20% equity and nothing out of pocket, and get the land note converted to standard financing where we could build a reputation with the bank and get ready to grow into more properties.

In the inspection it was noted that the roof didn't look great, there were a couple mold spots in two of the apartments, and there was a noticeable leak in two places.  It's a flat rubber roof with rock covering it, and pretty large - 5K sq ft probably. 

I decided to get a few roof guys up there, and they tell me the roof is shot. Bids came in from $30k to repair seems/flashing, etc, all the way up to $70k to completely replace the roof. To make matters worse, while I was there meeting with one of the roof contractors I got to meet with a tenant in one of the apartments, where she showed me that a leak in the roof had filled up one of her light fixtures in her bathroom, burning that out as well as the bathroom fan, and causing paint to bubble on her wall and ceiling. Who knows what kind of troubles we might uncover if we really dig into this. 

How would you pros recommend we proceed? I think the owner, who's pretty laid back, would suggest we hire a handyman and patch a few places, re-paint and fix the fixtures that were burnt out, and he would think he could get it all passable for $3-5k. Do we do that, or negotiate more from the selling price with the plans to get the roof more permanently fixed?

Part of me wants to just do the minor fix and see if we can't make it passable for a year or two while we build up reserves. We've got $25k set aside for max budget on improvements right now, so we wouldn't be able to afford a total overhaul. 

As a side note, what's our worst-case scenario here? We're buying it contract for deed in an LLC, and I believe since the LLC/partnership will have a contract with the previous owner, it's non-recourse on us personally. This is our first property, and we don't want to fail. If we ran it for a year and worst-case a renter who's unhappy with us attempting to raise/normalize rents reports the leaking roof, we could be stuck with MAJOR repairs that we can't yet afford, or who knows, a condemned building because there's mold in that roof/attic/walls that have been leaking.

It's discouraging - we could walk away and take our $25k and go 20% down on a duplex that cash flows $300 a month, or we gamble on this place where the cash flow is approaching $1.5k per month after budgeting conservatively with the bigger pockets calculators. 

Thanks for any input you can offer. 

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y

I suspect your getting  a No money down owner finance becasue the owner knows exactly whats up.

and is laying off it major cap ex on a couple of newer investors

I would make sure it you had to replace the roof and flat roofs are a bear I would think especially in snow country.. if you don't plan for it you could find yourself upside down.

and thats a good though even though you dont have any personal exposure.. seems like it could be a major time suck.

and for sure you dont want to refi out unless that thing is totally fixed then your putting your credit on the line and maybe PG's as well.

sometimes no money down owner finance you will find that as i state are really not that great of deal your simply buying into major issues.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Manitowoc, WI · Member since 2016 · 178 posts · 186 votes
    8y

    What are you projecting value to be after bringing rents up to market, and how much longer are the current leases in place? 

    I'm admittedly over-paranoid, so I'd have to completely replace the roof (who knows how long until issues start popping up in the other units), and while I don't know all the specific numbers I'm sure the deal doesn't pencil without the Seller paying for at least half of roof replacement.

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y

    @Kevin Mosier , I would be reluctant to put another flat roof on any property in Superior. Have you gotten quotes to turn it into a pitched roof? Flat roofs in WI are a bad idea.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    If you look at quotes to create a pitch talk to the city to make sure you can go taller.

  • Plano, TX · Member since 2018 · 48 posts · 28 votes
    8y
    I’m not very familiar with Wisconsin, but here (Texas) I think the mold issue would be a much bigger problem than the actual roof. Is that not as big of a concern up there?
  • Investor · Brookfield, WI · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 8 votes
    8y
    You may want to consider a quote on putting a hip roof on the building and stay clear of a flat roof.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    just and aside as most folks think the roof is an issue.

    but if this guy is not fixing obvious stuff.. did you do a sewer scope.... I see most folks never do them or I don't hear about it on BP much.. that's the first thing we always do.  especially a fresh rehab house.. its going to check out on inspection but if you don't scope it first time tenant moves in and actually starts to use the plumbing is when you find out..

    I would want to know the waste lines are in good order as well top to bottom

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    Good point Jay! it sucks to pay for another inspection yet, but once you've paid for a new sewer lateral you'll think differently. It seems like 1 out of 3 or 4 becomes an issue within weeks after we put a property in service, and it does not get better once you have 15 ft of human waste in there.. - So snaking the sewer line at the end of the rehab (after, no before, because contractors and construction dirt are sometimes part of the issue!) is now part of our SOP.

  • MINNEAPOLIS, MN · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Hey, Kevin!

    Given the price of the property compared to the price of the repair work that would need to be done outright - as opposed to 'quick fixes' that could lead to more problems down the line, I would ask the seller to come in with you on the roof fix cost. 

    Rubber roofs can be difficult - I have a commercial property holding with a rubber roof/rock overlay and can empathize with your situation. You definitely would want to have that fixed well before being secure in your investment. 

    I hope this helps!

    *I am a Residential Realtor (and Investor) licensed in the state of MN and am simply providing thoughts from an outside perspective. This is not intended as a solicitation.*

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    If this guy was willing to owner finance 100%, I am guessing you can figure something out with the roof.

  • Real Estate Broker · Windsor, CT · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    8y

    @Kevin Mosier There wasn't too much info about the deal specifically , but I would suggest doing your due diligence even if it holds up the deal. Get more contractor estimates and see if you can  make it work financially. If iit doesn't then move on. Do not get emotionally tied to this property as you mentioned this is your first and this could be easy to do. 

    If the numbers don't work for the repairs which it sounds like it doesn't my advice would be to move on. By patching things here and there, you are never really fixing the issue, deffered  on a property will only cause more issues in the long term.

  • Charleston, WV · Member since 2017 · 113 posts · 50 votes
    8y
    Anytime I see “owner financing no money down” or “ rent to own with sufficient down payment “ I know it can’t sell on the open market, usually because it can’t pass an inspection or zoning
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    If you have that much obvious water damage inside the units, just wait for the horror show when they rip the roof off..... its the water damage that you can't see that is going to cost you. If you work out a deal, I would be VERY liberal with the estimates you decide to base the deal on....add some $$ to pad it....a lot......

  • Superior, WI · Member since 2017 · 81 posts · 47 votes
    8y

    As as an update, we are still pretty much at a standstill. The seller is confident that if he kept it he could fix it up for $11k to 12K, so I told him to get me in touch with some contractors and see what we can do if it's in that price range. I'll keep you guys posted over the next week or so as we progress.

    The seller basically said that the price that he's letting it go at is what he thinks is fair, and if he has to repair it he'd rather just keep it because it's cash flowing well enough and he's having second thoughts about selling it.

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y

    @Kevin Mosier , I'd call his bluff and walk away. Like @Jay Hinrichs said, this guy isn't repairing anything. Murphy's Law rules real estate, and something always breaks right after closing. ALWAYS. 

    He's not "giving away" this deal and having second thoughts. He's dumping a dud property and looking for a sucker who's never heard of BP.

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