I'm going to meet a seller that has a property that hasn't been updated for a long time but is still livable. It does need a new roof and AC unit and he knows that. My question is, if the property is old and outdated, but still livable as a rental (even if you wouldn't get max rents), what kind of offer can I make?

I've done all my calculations (70% rule, 1-2% rule), but how do I justify to the seller that I'd have to put 40k into renovations to bring it up to market ARV if it doesn't have to be renovated to be rented?

It's a 3/2, 1600sq/ft, nice rental area. Rents are around $1200-$1300 in the area. Estimated ARV for a flip is 170K, estimated repairs (including rehab) are 35-40k. But if it only needs 15k for the roof and AC and then it's livable (and the owner knows that), which would make the ARV much less, how do I convince the seller to knock off 30% (or 15% for a buy and hold) to make a profit? Does that make sense? (It does in my head).